Immigrant influences and the positives and negatives of cultural diversity

[Steve52]

Is it really about illegal immigrants or is it the total abandonment by their own government and total abandonment
of the U.S. manufacturing base by U.S. big business.

Lets start getting this put into the riddle-equation here. American Business knows $5 an hour above or below the table is a lot of money compared to what these people face in Mexico. These guys know it and exploit it to their full advantage.

[Maitre D]

As for whether race should matter, it shouldn't, but affirmative action is there because it does.

It's an issue to opponents, such as I.  AA is done as a remedy for slavery & effects of segregation - I don't agree with it, but I can see the argument.  But if we're going to have 15M new people become citizens, I want to know if they're immediately eligible for government programs.  Welfare & education are the obvious ones - but what about affirm act & preferences?


Should recent immigrants from the Caribbean be entitled to preferences just because they are black?  What history of "racism" did they ever suffer here?  Are we going to have a system where people who never suffered (newcomers) get compensation from people who never did anything (me)?   

[Maitre D]

Is it really about illegal immigrants or is it the total abandonment by their own government and total abandonment
of the U.S. manufacturing base by U.S. big business.

Lets start getting this put into the riddle-equation here. American Business knows $5 an hour above or below the table is a lot of money compared to what these people face in Mexico. These guys know it and exploit it to their full advantage.

Good post.

[ThaMexican]

They do pay taxes  (sales tax), most don't make enough money to pay income tax, but if they do have a fake social security card, they will be paying into the system but not taking anything out.

I agree with the first part of this statement, but the second part I am not sure how accurate it is. I know for a fact that a lot of them when working put in their W-4 they have a 4 to 6 dependants so they avoid paying taxes, now how big the number of people doing that I am not sure but that is common knowledge for immigrants.

[CoolSarah]

I agree with the first part of this statement, but the second part I am not sure how accurate it is. I know for a fact that a lot of them when working put in their W-4 they have a 4 to 6 dependants so they avoid paying taxes, now how big the number of people doing that I am not sure but that is common knowledge for immigrants.

Even if you indicate 10 dependants, you still get hit for Social Security and Medicare Taxes which amount to about 7% of your check, depending on your income level, I suppose.

[phxcat]

Even if you indicate 10 dependants, you still get hit for Social Security and Medicare Taxes which amount to about 7% of your check, depending on your income level, I suppose.

That's what I'm talking about- and I don't think there is a lower limit, is there?

[CoolSarah]

That's what I'm talking about- and I don't think there is a lower limit, is there?

As far as I know, 7% is the lowest limit. I wonder where all of that money goes, since we know that the "illegal" immigrants have no means by which to EVER collect on it.

[LenexatoKCMO]

I loved the local news "breaking story" yesterday - Local roofers employ illegal immigrants!  Wow - there's a piece of crack investigative work. 

[Maitre D]

As far as I know, 7% is the lowest limit. I wonder where all of that money goes, since we know that the "illegal" immigrants have no means by which to EVER collect on it.

The best part of The Bush-Man's plan:  fine each illegal $5K.  (He never mentions what he'll do if they refuse, after all, he thinks deportation is "inhumane" so then what?)


Wow, 5K/per illegal.  What Bushie doesn't tell you:  they immediately become eligible for the Earned Income Tax Credit.  A tax give-back to working poor by you, the taxpayer.  Average annual payout?  2K.   (Net: In less than 3 years, YOU have basically paid their fine for them!)

[Steve52]

I loved the local news "breaking story" yesterday - Local roofers employ illegal immigrants!  Wow - there's a piece of crack investigative work. 

Anyway, it seems to me that is the intentional policy of corrupt elites, and that blaming the poor from banana republics is illogical. Another element to toss into the mix.

[phxcat]

As far as I know, 7% is the lowest limit. I wonder where all of that money goes, since we know that the "illegal" immigrants have no means by which to EVER collect on it.

I mean the lower limit on income in order to pay FICA.  I don't think there is one.

The best part of The Bush-Man's plan:  fine each illegal $5K.  (He never mentions what he'll do if they refuse, after all, he thinks deportation is "inhumane" so then what?)


Wow, 5K/per illegal.  What Bushie doesn't tell you:  they immediately become eligible for the Earned Income Tax Credit.  A tax give-back to working poor by you, the taxpayer.  Average annual payout?  2K.  (Net: In less than 3 years, YOU have basically paid their fine for them!)

So how many undocumented immigrants have 5K laying around?

[Maitre D]

So how many undocumented immigrants have 5K laying around?

Exactly.  That's why Bushie's proposal is so totally idiotic.

And he still hasn't answered the question: what if they don't pay?  What then, Bushie?

[phxcat]

Then there is still plenty of low cost labor hanging out at Home Depot.

[justin8216]

I mean the lower limit on income in order to pay FICA.  I don't think there is one.

So how many undocumented immigrants have 5K laying around?

You would be very surprised.
They basically already charge 5k
I have had two amigos detained by immigration recently. All they did to get out of immigration custody was pay 5k. Then they set hearing dates that they never attend and are released and that is it.

[Maitre D]

Then there is still plenty of low cost labor hanging out at Home Depot.

Exactly.

So what exactly is this "reform" going to...uh...reform?

[phxcat]

Exactly.

So what exactly is this "reform" going to...uh...reform?

Remember that we are talking about Bush here!

[phna]

I thought from context it was pretty clear, but if not I meant native-born, English-speaking American citizens in general.

I agree, and the responsibility to participate is everyone's.

I don't quite follow what you're saying here. Could you clarify?

If you're saying what I think you're saying, I would respond by pointing out that all businesses serve the interests of their target customers. If I didn't like wine, I probably wouldn't go to a wine bar because there is likely nothing there for me. On the other hand, if a restaurant only has signs in Spanish (which, for the record, I rarely if ever see) it is probably the kind of little dive I would love to check out.

That said, I know plenty of people who would be hesitant if not afraid to go into a place like that, or even Papa Lew's over on 12th for that matter. Their loss, I figure. But who is "participating" less? The person who feels excluded (because they don't like wine, or don't like signs in Spanish) and stays away, or the people who open their businesses and target a particular audience?

I was referring specifically to people born in America who speak English as a first language, regardless of the ethnicity of their parents or grandparents. For the sake of argument, this would exclude American-born children of immigrants who learn their native tongue first. There is no particular reason this should be, and I'm not saying it is a valid definition, it is just what I had in mind when I used the phrase.

You assumed who "us" was comprised of, is this what America is? The tired poor and hungry? As I said the question is HUGE.

To clarify. All I am trying to convey is that is better, especially in a capitalist society, for the minority to cater to the needs greater than itself. Economics bears this out--Adam Smith etc.

I have tried to help this immigrant refugee community by patronizing their food store because I enjoy ethnic food, and I know there is a greater market for what they offer.