Jan 9, 2007 Tenant Announcement

[bahua]

Definitely.

[GRID]

Jesus people, Downtown needs Chipoltle just as bad as espn zone.  This development is going to blow the socks off everybody in this city when it opens, even those too good to eat at famous daves.  There are two Gates and the original Bryants within five minutes of downtown.  People visiting the city will know that too and many will do what they do today, cab or drive to Bryants or Gates in the Gritty areas where the real BBQ is.

There is a spaghetti factory in downtown StLouis.  Does that insult StL?  No, it just makes the Hill that much more authentic and as somebody that loves to eat italian while in the lou, I do find myself in the spaghetti factory occasionally and I'm fine with that and it's always a two hour wait...

This development is turning into exactly what the town needs.  People from OP and LS will pile into Famous Daves.   Then you have what everybody wants....People downtown.

Other restaurants like zin and lideas and jack stack will be there too and more will come.

[Stockton]

I wonder what Danny Edwards thinks about Cordish bringing in Famous Dave's.

[pearcejp]

Thank you GRID.  Amen!  Everyone needs to settle down a bit.

[Highlander]

Jesus people, Downtown needs Chipoltle just as bad as espn zone.  This development is going to blow the socks off everybody in this city when it opens, even those too good to eat at famous daves.  There are two Gates and the original Bryants within five minutes of downtown.  People visiting the city will know that too and many will do what they do today, cab or drive to Bryants or Gates in the Gritty areas where the real BBQ is.

I'm not worried about Chipolte, its only 2500 sq ft.  Doesn't really take up much space leaving plenty of room for other things and like you say, it has its niche. 

[FangKC]

It's not uncommon to make these small signing announcements to keep people interested and seeing progress.

Ollie Gates is probably more interested in owning his building than renting from Cordish. If I were Ollie Gates, I'd buy a building like the Berlau Paper Co. Building on Walnut, or the Goodyear auto shop on Main, and renovate it. Then I'd close the one at Main and Linwood, build apartments around the present restaurant, and a garage behind. Then he could reopen another restaurant there--maybe soul food.

P&L will draw chains. But that doesn't mean that the local flavor can't come from native restaurants opening up later around P&L. Ones waiting to see what happens first.

In the last couple of years since P&L was announced, we've already seen Willie's open at Truman Road and Grand, the hamburger place from the Northland planning a place nearby on Grand, the Cashew on Grand; Truman's and the Drum Room on Baltimore; Cupinis Amor and JP's Wine Bar on Walnut; the Mango Room, 1924 Main, Nara, the Bulldog, and Bar Natasha on Main; and the Cashew on Grand.

And P&L hasn't even opened yet.

[kard]

Jesus people, Downtown needs Chipoltle just as bad as espn zone.

Jesus, GRID.    Who's bashing Chipotle?  We're just pointing out the obvious irony of Famous Dave's landing the Showcase spot in a BBQ town.

And while we're really glad to have Chipotle, it's not NEARLY as exciting as the announcement of Hard Rock or ESPN Zone.

We're still waiting for the good stuff.

[GRID]

Jesus, GRID.    Who's bashing Chipotle?  We're just pointing out the obvious irony of Famous Dave's landing the Showcase spot in a BBQ town.

And while we're really glad to have Chipotle, it's not NEARLY as exciting as the announcement of Hard Rock or ESPN Zone.

We're still waiting for the good stuff.

I understand, I just didn't expect three pages of WTF?  Be patient, the development is going to be a first class development and tourism attraction, if KC will let it.

[KCMax]

I understand, I just didn't expect three pages of WTF?   Be patient, the development is going to be a first class development and tourism attraction, if KC will let it.

I did! I expect it every time anything in KC is announced!

[chingon]

I don't know that the Spaghetti Factory is analogous.  I know this will be read as heresy by some, but St. Louis' identity isn't exactly linked to Italian food the way KC's is to bbq.  I think people who visit STL are directed to Dago Hill alot by tour guides and locals, but outside of the city I wouldn't say anyone thinks culinary STL=Italian food.  I do think people make that link about KC and bbq, which makes the fact that Famous Daves can even survive here a little disheartening.  Isn't that fair to say?  And I think a Gates or Bryants would have done just as good a business as Famous Daves, which is what makes it a little sad to me.  Gates and Bryants, due to their sauce markets, are very well known known names nationally, more so I'd think than Famous Daves.  That's what shocks me - that Famous Daves actually seems riskier than a hometown brand.  Otherwise, I think we are on the same page.

[rxlexi]

yay for Chipotle downtown!  They'll do some great business in the P&L.  The brewery and lounge sound reasonable, assuming they're still amongst the "small fish" in the tenant list.  It's the Jos A Bank and Famous Daves that have me questioning the retail mix.  It's been said, it's true; Famous Daves in KC's showcase downtown district is just a slap in the face, I would have preferred they had simply left BBQ off of the menu if a local couldn't set up shop.  As far as Banks; come on now, I thought we're looking at destination retail here?  Something to entice people down, to have touch of wow factor?  I'll speak for myself, but I don't feel that from Banks or Famous Daves, especially with their other metro locations.  I was hoping to see a bit more creative list of tenants, national chains or not, as there are MANY neat chains that I'd love to see here.

  With that said, I'll continue to hold my breath that big upcoming announcements will satisfy my desire for more of a showcase entertainment district.  Until then, it'll be great to imagine a delicious DT Chipotle. 

[KCPowercat]

Everyone is right when they talk about the mass chaining of this district and I don't have a problem with that.

My issue was seeing Famous Dave's mentioned as a tenant....just rubs me the wrong way....but when it comes down to it, the "big names" of BBQ weren't going to open another location so close to what they already have...Oklahoma Joe's would have been the best chance....

So count me as one of the overreacted ones....I just thought we were going to get some real tenants today...not fluff.

We already knew the Gorden brewery one was official....so the only "cool" announcement to me is the lounge.....but never hurts to have a Chipotle that will bring in more business during the lunch hour as well.

[frankthetank]

Sorry to pile on Grid...but WTF!? We had a press conference for that!?

[KCMax]

I don't know that the Spaghetti Factory is analogous.  I know this will be read as heresy by some, but St. Louis' identity isn't exactly linked to Italian food the way KC's is to bbq.  I think people who visit STL are directed to Dago Hill alot by tour guides and locals,

Wow, is "The Hill" really short for "Dago Hill"???? That's awful!

[chingon]

Yeah, 'the Hill' is an abbreviation used by people with more class than I.

[GRID]

I don't know that the Spaghetti Factory is analogous.  I know this will be read as heresy by some, but St. Louis' identity isn't exactly linked to Italian food the way KC's is to bbq.  I think people who visit STL are directed to Dago Hill alot by tour guides and locals, but outside of the city I wouldn't say anyone thinks culinary STL=Italian food.  I do think people make that link about KC and bbq, which makes the fact that Famous Daves can even survive here a little disheartening.  Isn't that fair to say?  And I think a Gates or Bryants would have done just as good a business as Famous Daves, which is what makes it a little sad to me.  Gates and Bryants, due to their sauce markets, are very well known known names nationally, more so I'd think than Famous Daves.  That's what shocks me - that Famous Daves actually seems riskier than a hometown brand.  Otherwise, I think we are on the same page.

Yes, but there was obviously a business climate that somehow is not working in favor of bringing a Bryant's or gates downtown.

What if they did?  What would they do with their other nearby locations?  Close them and risk losing that "authenticity" and "destination" appeal?

I agree, I don't get Famous Daves, but downtown needs that kind of stuff to appeal to the mass market.  Eventually, a good local bbq place will end up near or in the P&L district.

As far as the StL thing, it's like that in every town.  There are Joes Crab Shacks in entertainment areas of San Diego or Miami etc.

Is StL known for Italian?  I don't know, and I'm not sure it really matters.  I think about as many people from Manchester have been to Favazzas on the Hill as people from Olathe have been the the Gates on 47th or the Bryants on Brooklyn.

Anybody with a brain will know that Famous Daves is a chain and KC has to have some local places nearby.

But you can't overlook the "comfortably" pull of a chain place.  It's very intimidating to 90% of the population to drive into Chicago's outer urban neighborhoods and walk into a deep dish pizza pub for the real stuff, the Uno's on Michigan Ave has a 3 hour wait though.  StL has dozens of Italian places on the hill, but unless you know them, you could walk into a $50 a plate place or a fast food joint with no seating.  With Spaghetti Factory, most people know what they are getting.

I just think we need to appeal to the masses right now and get people downtown, people that have not been downtown in years.  There are already unique places that we all love to patronize, after a few visits to Famous Daves, people will find out there is far more to downtown than the P&L district.

Leave some of KC's authenticity for people to find for themselves, don't package it all up in a generic way and say, "well...this is kc!"

Give them a reason to find out where Gates is, where the Plaza is etc.  Hopefully there will be far more people in the urban core to go around making it better for everybody.

But yea, we are on the same page .

[GRID]

I do know, I must of driven around for an hour looking for that Chipotle I saw in downtown Porltand last year.   And while recently in San Fransisco, same deal, I hunted down a Chipotle I saw earlier in the day on the other side of downtown.

I wouldn't know the first thing about walking into an authentic fish place though.  I don't go there enough.

I would bet most people staying at hotels in Downtown KC or driving through via 70 would do the same, otherwise it's off to Blue Springs or Liberty...

[DaveKCMO]

damn mcfadden-weaver! her censure trumped the P+L announcement on channel 41's 6 pm newscast.

[TagoMago]

There was a spot on the NBC 6pm news.  The owner of Famous Dave's said something to the effect of "I realize that selling BBQ in Kansas City is like selling ice in Alaska..."

[trailerkid]

The Plaza had a very, very high profile BBQ joint worse than Famous Dave's for years and years.

Why would you go to a tourist area (flanked by the convention center and 2 arenas no less) if you want authenticity? It's like going to Times Square and complaining about "NY cuisine."