Proposition: A downtown Macy's department store

[chrizow]

i agree that the Plaza is not the ultimate in shopping, esp. when compared to shopping in other cities.  however, when you start talking about Hermes and Club Monaco and H+M or Zara and the like, they make a much more natural fit on the plaza.  the Plaza is and should remain the chain-ified WASP shopping epicenter for a 200-mile radius.  (i'm sure you're not suggesting Northpark or South Coast Plaza is somehow NOT waspy).  the fact is that the sort of elite retailers KC needs and does not yet have wouldn't even dream of locating in downtown KCMO when there is the Plaza and, yes, south johnson county to consider.  are you suggesting that LV or Sur La Table should open next to GiGi's Wigs or Seidel's or Spool? 

[warwickland]

The Plaza is 40 blocks away from downtown and might as well be in a different city. If anything, say there is no room for something like the Mission Gateway which is in the Plaza's backyard-- no one would dare say that.

thats a short "40 blocks," ive walked it many times...

i think downtown would do well as it has thus far...funky niches, etc. + something like a 2 story urban target.

[trailerkid]

i agree that the Plaza is not the ultimate in shopping, esp. when compared to shopping in other cities.  however, when you start talking about Hermes and Club Monaco and H+M or Zara and the like, they make a much more natural fit on the plaza.  the Plaza is and should remain the chain-ified WASP shopping epicenter for a 200-mile radius.  (i'm sure you're not suggesting Northpark or South Coast Plaza is somehow NOT waspy).  the fact is that the sort of elite retailers KC needs and does not yet have wouldn't even dream of locating in downtown KCMO when there is the Plaza and, yes, south johnson county to consider.  are you suggesting that LV or Sur La Table should open next to GiGi's Wigs or Seidel's or Spool? 

The Plaza is far too small to forever reign as the end-all, be-all for the entire region. The management also seems very behind the times  compared to most any peer property in the country. There are probably hundreds of "Plaza-like" shops and restaurants that will never be able to find a home on the Plaza. I don't think there is any question that LV or Hermes would fit in on the Plaza, however, if a developer packages a new development in our downtown that caters to said retailers-- it's very doable. All it takes is to get a couple big names and the rest fall into place. Many upscale and non-upscale brands are willing to locate in wheat fields in the middle of nowhere so I don't understand the questioning of such retail happening in the heart of a 2 M person metropolis.

Big city downtowns also have big city shopping. Places like Denver and Seattle act as a gathering spot for hundreds of thousands of people every week. Until downtown attracts retail options that attract thousands and thousands of visitors a week (like 119th, the Plaza, Oak Park do) our downtown will not measure up. Surely part of the equation is large format retail like department stores and urbanized big boxes.

I know it's hard to imagine our downtown could actually have people shopping there, but it happens everyday in many other cities that aren't a hell of a lot more sophisticated than us.  Further, Cordish has already stated there will be upscale boutiques within the P+L District so the argument seems quite pointless. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see H+M associated with P+L-- it's a natural fit.

There is such a small town ethos going on here...the Plaza isn't anything special in my opinion. It's like everyone thinks that any new upscale retail is automatically a threat to the Plaza and isn't necessary. Urban developments often complement each other rather than cannibalize (2 large shopping areas in the city make KCMo even more of a regional destination to tourists).

[warwickland]

The Plaza is far too small to forever reign as the end-all, be-all for the entire region. The management also seems very behind the times  compared to most any peer property in the country. There are probably hundreds of "Plaza-like" shops and restaurants that will never be able to find a home on the Plaza. I don't think there is any question that LV or Hermes would fit in on the Plaza, however, if a developer packages a new development in our downtown that caters to said retailers-- it's very doable. All it takes is to get a couple big names and the rest fall into place. Many upscale and non-upscale brands are willing to locate in wheat fields in the middle of nowhere so I don't understand the questioning of such retail happening in the heart of a 2 M person metropolis.

Big city downtowns also have big city shopping. Places like Denver and Seattle act as a gathering spot for hundreds of thousands of people every week. Until downtown attracts retail options that attract thousands and thousands of visitors a week (like 119th, the Plaza, Oak Park do) our downtown will not measure up. Surely part of the equation is large format retail like department stores and urbanized big boxes.

I know it's hard to imagine our downtown could actually have people shopping there, but it happens everyday in many other cities that aren't a hell of a lot more sophisticated than us.  Further, Cordish has already stated there will be upscale boutiques within the P+L District so the argument seems quite pointless. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see H+M associated with P+L-- it's a natural fit.

There is such a small town ethos going on here...the Plaza isn't anything special in my opinion. It's like everyone thinks that any new upscale retail is automatically a threat to the Plaza and isn't necessary. Urban developments often complement each other rather than cannibalize (2 large shopping areas in the city make KCMo even more of a regional destination to tourists).

personally, i just feel that dt is becoming successful with a formula that has nothing to do with becoming similar to the plaza. i dont think there is anything wrong with creating a downtown that is dissimilar to the plaza...chain high end retail similar to what would be appropriate on the plaza is not even close to the end all be all of thriving urban centers. i'm not sure how that has anything to do with being 'small town.'

i'd rather see a schizophrenic jumble of retail options, dining, etc downtown...in other words, something that would never be tolerated on the plaza.

[trailerkid]

i'd rather see a schizophrenic jumble of retail options, dining, etc downtown...in other words, something that would never be tolerated on the plaza.

That already exists. Mainstream retail doesn't.

[Stockton]

Hopefully the P&L district will be very successful. Perhaps the Plaza could become more of a truly upscale retail district, pushing out the likes of American Eagle and Gap.