Downtown Baseball Stadium

[GRID]

I'm not really picking a site without more details. But is there even 140 businesses in the entire crossroads? Actual businesses, with employees etc, not a building with a bunch of business names associated with its address.

Wild take. I'd bet there's easily 1,000+.

I was being somewhat facetious. But to my point. 140 legitimate businesses that KC needs and wants in that part of the crossroads that would be displaced for the footprint of a ballpark seems like nonsense. But again, there is so little real info here.

[Highlander]

Well, I said this months ago and now a legitimate member of the media is saying the same thing. I’m not his source, so I don’t think it’s false.

They all feel it’s the best physical location for downtown and its surroundings. I won’t stop saying it’s not the easiest and doesn’t come with a bucket full of issues and some opposition.

I’m not getting excited about it, but it is being pursued. At this point, I’m holding all excitement for official announcements and hard plans.

It's a great physical location if you don't care about the 140 businesses that are currently there. With that philosophy, any place in downtown could be game whether or not it's occupied or not. One of the many issues with the crossroads location is that there is already considerable opposition to moving Royal's stadium away from TSC. The last thing the Royal's and the city need is for the Royal's to move to somewhere that now doesn't want it because of the specific site that was selected. Resorting to ED as Taxi said would be immensely unpopular. Not only that but much of the downtown population in KC will likely oppose this location which will only galvanize all those who are already against a move away from TSC. What makes it even worse is the appearance that the KC Star building owner and Cordish will benefit disproportionately from this particular location. Not good optics for the mayor or for Cordish for that matter.

Why would the mayor be facing criticism for PNL benefiting from this location be justified? The PNL relies on taxpayer financing, and any strategic efforts to boost tax revenue for repaying bonds should be viewed positively. Conversely, any actions supported by taxpayer dollars that could jeopardize the tax revenues crucial for servicing those bonds would be boneheaded.

Concerning the owner of the Star Building, while the decision to invest in such a challenging property might seem questionable, if it is acquired as part of a broader project, it becomes a routine aspect of the overall process. Some could argue that JE Dunn could unfairly gain from the mayor's endorsement of the EV site.

Opponents of a new stadium seem entrenched in their stance, showing little concern for the existing businesses in the Crossroads. Many property owners in the East Crossroads would willingly sell, as these properties have always been seen as investments. The likelihood of eminent domain being necessary is minimal, given the current absence of a unified opposition from owners and operators in the area—a notion existing mostly as speculation at this point. Conversations have been ongoing for months, predating the public knowledge of serious consideration of this site, demonstrating that the Royals are well aware of the challenging path ahead and unlikely to go down a path with even more public resistance.

I think you underestimate how quickly public opinion can go south when their is a perceived ulterior motive that benefits a large corporation over a small business owner when a decision about a publicly supported project is being made. And KC has a "hometown" newspaper that lives on stirring up this kind of controversy. The Royals already face an uphill battle in extending the tax to finance a downtown stadium, having a potentially loud group of downtown businesses opposed to the project will indeed sway votes elsewhere in Jackson County that may have otherwise looked favorably towards a downtown stadium. If I lived in Jackson County, I'd have to be convinced that this location would not rip the heart of the east crossroads out, before I'd vote for it and I'm a strong supporter of a downtown stadium.

[DColeKC]

Okay. No evidence to disprove or not believe you so I'll take it on it's face. Their reasons are?

Well, I said this months ago and now a legitimate member of the media is saying the same thing. I’m not his source, so I don’t think it’s false.

They all feel it’s the best physical location for downtown and its surroundings. I won’t stop saying it’s not the easiest and doesn’t come with a bucket full of issues and some opposition.

I’m not getting excited about it, but it is being pursued. At this point, I’m holding all excitement for official announcements and hard plans.

I'm not sure what same things you and him are saying I guess was my question then.

I'll take it by the caveats in your post this site ain't happening. We can't ignore the complexities. This isn't sim city. If it was we could just knock down pnl all together and build there. That would make sense from a purely location perspective and the build entertainment around it.

Yeah, not a good take. Let's not compare an area in the crossroads that does perhaps a few millions dollars a year in revenue and has had hundreds of thousands invested over the last 15 years to an area that has had nearly a billion dollars invested and does well over a 100 million dollars a year in revenue while also employing 10 times the amount of people. I get the attempted jab, but don't be ridiculous.

[DColeKC]

I'm not really picking a site without more details. But is there even 140 businesses in the entire crossroads? Actual businesses, with employees etc, not a building with a bunch of business names associated with its address.

Wild take. I'd bet there's easily 1,000+.

I was being somewhat facetious. But to my point. 140 legitimate businesses that KC needs and wants in that part of the crossroads that would be displaced for the footprint of a ballpark seems like nonsense. But again, there is so little real info here.

It is complete nonsense. There's between 35-50 total parcels depending on exact location that would be impacted. Many are parking lots, some are empty, a handful are owned by one entity, one's city owned and a large chunk is U-Haul and the star site.

There's virtually zero chance all property owners want to remain and would resist the desire to cash in on their investments. I can't really see any "organically, thriving, local" businesses in the area but I'm sure there might be one or two.

[GRID]

I think you underestimate how quickly public opinion can go south when their is a perceived ulterior motive that benefits a large corporation over a small business owner when a decision about a publicly supported project is being made. And KC has a "hometown" newspaper that lives on stirring up this kind of controversy. The Royals already face an uphill battle in extending the tax to finance a downtown stadium, having a potentially loud group of downtown businesses opposed to the project will indeed sway votes elsewhere in Jackson County that may have otherwise looked favorably towards a downtown stadium. If I lived in Jackson County, I'd have to be convinced that this location would not rip the heart of the east crossroads out, before I'd vote for it and I'm a strong supporter of a downtown stadium.

I would agree, but from my experience, I would bet that 90% of Jackson County voters barely know where the east crossroads even is. I think you are giving them too much credit.

[WoodDraw]

I'm not sure people realize how much this is being pushed by cordish. It would be incredibly lucrative for them plus knock out any attempt at a "competitive" district.

The royals like it because they can say we don't have to do anything anymore. A walk away from the pnl and we're happy to help these breweries nearby.

It's a compete fucking joke. I don't mind the propaganda on other people, but this site can see right though it.

[DColeKC]

It's a great physical location if you don't care about the 140 businesses that are currently there. With that philosophy, any place in downtown could be game whether or not it's occupied or not. One of the many issues with the crossroads location is that there is already considerable opposition to moving Royal's stadium away from TSC. The last thing the Royal's and the city need is for the Royal's to move to somewhere that now doesn't want it because of the specific site that was selected. Resorting to ED as Taxi said would be immensely unpopular. Not only that but much of the downtown population in KC will likely oppose this location which will only galvanize all those who are already against a move away from TSC. What makes it even worse is the appearance that the KC Star building owner and Cordish will benefit disproportionately from this particular location. Not good optics for the mayor or for Cordish for that matter.

Why would the mayor be facing criticism for PNL benefiting from this location be justified? The PNL relies on taxpayer financing, and any strategic efforts to boost tax revenue for repaying bonds should be viewed positively. Conversely, any actions supported by taxpayer dollars that could jeopardize the tax revenues crucial for servicing those bonds would be boneheaded.

Concerning the owner of the Star Building, while the decision to invest in such a challenging property might seem questionable, if it is acquired as part of a broader project, it becomes a routine aspect of the overall process. Some could argue that JE Dunn could unfairly gain from the mayor's endorsement of the EV site.

Opponents of a new stadium seem entrenched in their stance, showing little concern for the existing businesses in the Crossroads. Many property owners in the East Crossroads would willingly sell, as these properties have always been seen as investments. The likelihood of eminent domain being necessary is minimal, given the current absence of a unified opposition from owners and operators in the area—a notion existing mostly as speculation at this point. Conversations have been ongoing for months, predating the public knowledge of serious consideration of this site, demonstrating that the Royals are well aware of the challenging path ahead and unlikely to go down a path with even more public resistance.

I think you underestimate how quickly public opinion can go south when their is a perceived ulterior motive that benefits a large corporation over a small business owner when a decision about a publicly supported project is being made. And KC has a "hometown" newspaper that lives on stirring up this kind of controversy. The Royals already face an uphill battle in extending the tax to finance a downtown stadium, having a potentially loud group of downtown businesses opposed to the project will indeed sway votes elsewhere in Jackson County that may have otherwise looked favorably towards a downtown stadium. If I lived in Jackson County, I'd have to be convinced that this location would not rip the heart of the east crossroads out, before I'd vote for it and I'm a strong supporter of a downtown stadium.

But where's this loud group of downtown businesses that are opposed? Many owners in the Crossroads want this badly because they see it only helping drive traffic to their businesses. The only bit I've seen about crossroads owners not liking this is from Dave on here and he doesn't represent the entire district. Not to take my antidotal information as widespread truth, but the 5 or 6 business owners I've talked to about this are 100% in favor of a stadium within the crossroads district. Granted these are almost exclusively bar and restaurant owners who rely on traffic to profit.

The Royals and other parties involved can not be worried about that small local paper. They'll never have their support, not even if the project is 100% green and completely paid for with private money. That paper hates rich people, big business and all things tax incentives. So who's worried about them taking up the opposition side of things to generate clicks?

I think we need to hear a solid plan from the Royals that includes feedback from the property owners in which this would directly impact. They need to sell the public on this site if they decide to move on it.

I personally am good with a downtown stadium period but feel very confident that this would be the best choice looking back in 20 years. That's just my personal take. The area we're talking about won't have a single existing building on them within 15 or 20 years anyway, all this would do is expedite that eventuality.

[DColeKC]

I'm not sure people realize how much this is being pushed by cordish. It would be incredibly lucrative for them plus knock out any attempt at a "competitive" district.

The royals like it because they can say we don't have to do anything anymore. A walk away from the pnl and we're happy to help these breweries nearby.

It's a compete fucking joke. I don't mind the propaganda on other people, but this site can see right though it.

Let's see, a property owner is pushing to have something built that would help increase the value of their property while also protecting the businesses within it's district. Seems very American and nothing out of the ordinary.

The Royals would still build towers, both residential and office in additional to some ground level retail that's open more than just game days. It's not like this site means nothing but a stadium.

[Highlander]

Why would the mayor be facing criticism for PNL benefiting from this location be justified? The PNL relies on taxpayer financing, and any strategic efforts to boost tax revenue for repaying bonds should be viewed positively. Conversely, any actions supported by taxpayer dollars that could jeopardize the tax revenues crucial for servicing those bonds would be boneheaded.

Concerning the owner of the Star Building, while the decision to invest in such a challenging property might seem questionable, if it is acquired as part of a broader project, it becomes a routine aspect of the overall process. Some could argue that JE Dunn could unfairly gain from the mayor's endorsement of the EV site.

Opponents of a new stadium seem entrenched in their stance, showing little concern for the existing businesses in the Crossroads. Many property owners in the East Crossroads would willingly sell, as these properties have always been seen as investments. The likelihood of eminent domain being necessary is minimal, given the current absence of a unified opposition from owners and operators in the area—a notion existing mostly as speculation at this point. Conversations have been ongoing for months, predating the public knowledge of serious consideration of this site, demonstrating that the Royals are well aware of the challenging path ahead and unlikely to go down a path with even more public resistance.

I think you underestimate how quickly public opinion can go south when their is a perceived ulterior motive that benefits a large corporation over a small business owner when a decision about a publicly supported project is being made. And KC has a "hometown" newspaper that lives on stirring up this kind of controversy. The Royals already face an uphill battle in extending the tax to finance a downtown stadium, having a potentially loud group of downtown businesses opposed to the project will indeed sway votes elsewhere in Jackson County that may have otherwise looked favorably towards a downtown stadium. If I lived in Jackson County, I'd have to be convinced that this location would not rip the heart of the east crossroads out, before I'd vote for it and I'm a strong supporter of a downtown stadium.

But where's this loud group of downtown businesses that are opposed? Many owners in the Crossroads want this badly because they see it only helping drive traffic to their businesses. The only bit I've seen about crossroads owners not liking this is from Dave on here and he doesn't represent the entire district. Not to take my antidotal information as widespread truth, but the 5 or 6 business owners I've talked to about this are 100% in favor of a stadium within the crossroads district. Granted these are almost exclusively bar and restaurant owners who rely on traffic to profit.

After reading the Fox4 news article again that CityScene referenced, it seems the owner of the Star printing press are hoping to make the printing press into part of an entertainment center with the printing press land not being part of the stadium itself. As suggested in the article, that places the stadium to the east of the printing press stretching from Oak to Holmes (and Truman to 17th). That is a lot of businesses that are going to be adversely affected (aka torn down). There's where your opposition will materialize. While it's one of the stretches of the East Crossroads that doesn't contain many retail stores, restaurants or bars, it does contain a lot of functioning businesses. Are these the business owners you have talked to? I am sure the owners of the nearby bars and restaurants would be in favor but they aren't the only businesses in the crossroads.

I'd be less opposed to the location if half the area the stadium utilized was the now-vacant building Star printing building, but to push the stadium further east so that the stadium would occupy an area already covered with extant businesses and leave the Star printing building intact seems nuts.

And when did this concept of preserving the Star Printing building for an entertainment center arise?

[WoodDraw]

I'm not sure people realize how much this is being pushed by cordish. It would be incredibly lucrative for them plus knock out any attempt at a "competitive" district.

The royals like it because they can say we don't have to do anything anymore. A walk away from the pnl and we're happy to help these breweries nearby.

It's a compete fucking joke. I don't mind the propaganda on other people, but this site can see right though it.

Let's see, a property owner is pushing to have something built that would help increase the value of their property while also protecting the businesses within it's district. Seems very American and nothing out of the ordinary.

The Royals would still build towers, both residential and office in additional to some ground level retail that's open more than just game days. It's not like this site means nothing but a stadium.

Sure and a mayor that wants to run for higher office supports it, a company and family that would happily donate some money.

It is what it is, I just want to make sure everyone knows what is going on.

I reject the idea that the royals would build anything, other than retail in the stadium.

[DColeKC]

The idea of preserving it isn't in the plans being considered by the Royals. Maybe the owner has some other motive, thinking he could get more money for it if it's not going to be demolished, but the idea to keep it and use it for something is solely his as far as I know. You're right, not having that large plot to build on makes the stadium project much harder as it would require more occupied property.

Things change fast however and I haven't spoken to anyone connected for a few weeks. So maybe things have changed, but I'd also start to like this site less and less if it means the stadium going further east and the star building remaining.

I have not talked to any business owners in this specific area. Most of the buildings have zero activity and don't appear to even be accessible, the U-Haul place is likely not occupied by anyone with knowledge, same with the automotive spot. I can tell you the owners of The Truman would sell in a heartbeat.

[DColeKC]

I'm not sure people realize how much this is being pushed by cordish. It would be incredibly lucrative for them plus knock out any attempt at a "competitive" district.

The royals like it because they can say we don't have to do anything anymore. A walk away from the pnl and we're happy to help these breweries nearby.

It's a compete fucking joke. I don't mind the propaganda on other people, but this site can see right though it.

Let's see, a property owner is pushing to have something built that would help increase the value of their property while also protecting the businesses within it's district. Seems very American and nothing out of the ordinary.

The Royals would still build towers, both residential and office in additional to some ground level retail that's open more than just game days. It's not like this site means nothing but a stadium.

Sure and a mayor that wants to run for higher office supports it, a company and family that would happily donate some money.

It is what it is, I just want to make sure everyone knows what is going on.

I reject the idea that the royals would build anything, other than retail in the stadium.

Apologies if I've done anything to try and hide what's happening here. I figured we all knew what all parties motives are here.

[TheBigChuckbowski]

I can't really see any "organically, thriving, local" businesses in the area but I'm sure there might be one or two.

This is only two blocks and I'm sure I missed some (south of Truman, east of Oak, west of Locust, north of 17th). This business density is pretty on par with any two blocks in the P&L District.

Green Dirt on Oak (opening in February)
Amgraf
Head for the Cure
O'Neill Events and Marketing
The Sound Environment
The Pairing Wine & Grocery
Dojo on Oak
Chartreuse Saloon
Risa McKinney Photo
Renaissance Infrastructure Consulting
Compass Chiropractic
KC Kush
KC Conjure + Botanica
OM Chiropractic
Good Bodies
Lexitas Legal (not local)
Apex Engineers
Firehouse Gallery #8
AgSwag
U-Haul (not local)

Not to mention the land/building owners who may have numerous reasons not to sell.

[WoodDraw]

Let's see, a property owner is pushing to have something built that would help increase the value of their property while also protecting the businesses within it's district. Seems very American and nothing out of the ordinary.

The Royals would still build towers, both residential and office in additional to some ground level retail that's open more than just game days. It's not like this site means nothing but a stadium.

Sure and a mayor that wants to run for higher office supports it, a company and family that would happily donate some money.

It is what it is, I just want to make sure everyone knows what is going on.

I reject the idea that the royals would build anything, other than retail in the stadium.

Apologies if I've done anything to try and hide what's happening here. I figured we all knew what all parties motives are here.

I know you know what's happening. Sorry if it felt like I was accusing you.

I'm just making sure the readers know.

[KCPowercat]

It's not even an average to good location outside of being kinda close to pnl (which isn't materially different that EV). The highway access is non existent and there is no existing big garages to reuse. This is ignoring the fact that it's being proposed to kick out existing businesses and close oak.

[taxi]

I can't believe the shit some of you raggers are saying in support of this site. GRID, what a disappointment. What if it was just 14 businesses? And 14 owners who have redeveloped their buildings? I expect this crap from DcoleKC who sucks so much Cordish cock that he has to wear galoshes but this is a forum about urban development, ferchrissakes.
Do any of you old farts or young whippersnappers remember how many businesses were operating at 18th and Wyandotte 25-30 years ago? Or 20th and Baltimore?
Displacing owners and businesses for a baseball stadium when there is a shit ton of vacant land a par 3 away is insanity. Please, my friends, come to your senses.

[WoodDraw]

It's not even an average to good location outside of being kinda close to pnl (which isn't materially different that EV). The highway access is non existent and there is no existing big garages to reuse. This is ignoring the fact that it's being proposed to kick out existing businesses and close oak.

The land in the EV is all banked and available for development, so I think cordish rightly fears they'll try to do a mixed use development.

In east crossroads no one owns the land, it'll turn into parking, cordish has its two spots on main and Truman, and knows the royals aren't going to go around buying up lots nearby for office or whatever bs they're pretending.

[DColeKC]

I can't believe the shit some of you raggers are saying in support of this site. GRID, what a disappointment. What if it was just 14 businesses? And 14 owners who have redeveloped their buildings? I expect this crap from DcoleKC who sucks so much Cordish cock that he has to wear galoshes but this is a forum about urban development, ferchrissakes.
Do any of you old farts or young whippersnappers remember how many businesses were operating at 18th and Wyandotte 25-30 years ago? Or 20th and Baltimore?
Displacing owners and businesses for a baseball stadium when there is a shit ton of vacant land a par 3 away is insanity. Please, my friends, come to your senses.

Thanks for the compliment! I'm sure many of the investors who have purchased these parcels, invested, made money off leasing them and would love to now cash in appreciate you advocating for them.

When someone willingly sells their property to the highest bidder, we call that "displacement"?

I don't expect anything out of you, but I did at least expect you to know how more about golf before suggesting 845 yards is even remotely close a par 3.

Sorry for any spelling mistakes, hard to type with a mouthful!

[DColeKC]

It's not even an average to good location outside of being kinda close to pnl (which isn't materially different that EV). The highway access is non existent and there is no existing big garages to reuse. This is ignoring the fact that it's being proposed to kick out existing businesses and close oak.

You don't think people who are going to invest hundreds of millions of dollars have had hours upon hours of meetings and conversations about what they deem a good, bad or ok location? I understand that you personally don't think this site is any different than EV but the people who do these things for a living strongly disagree with your opinion.

Once more, this notion that existing businesses will be "kicked out" is all speculation at this point. Would you still hold the same opinion if it's determined that every single parcel owner wants to sell?

[DColeKC]

It's not even an average to good location outside of being kinda close to pnl (which isn't materially different that EV). The highway access is non existent and there is no existing big garages to reuse. This is ignoring the fact that it's being proposed to kick out existing businesses and close oak.

The land in the EV is all banked and available for development, so I think cordish rightly fears they'll try to do a mixed use development.

In east crossroads no one owns the land, it'll turn into parking, cordish has its two spots on main and Truman, and knows the royals aren't going to go around buying up lots nearby for office or whatever bs they're pretending.

Just want to add something I know for a fact. Cordish will help get a downtown ballpark built regardless of location. They know it will be a good thing for downtown, this I have heard directly from them.