KCRag Forum

freedog wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 10:31 am Also psyched by this announcement. Worth thinking through ways to better connect WB to the core. I think the gondola as it was previously pitched bypassed the West Bottoms and connected to Strawberry Hill. Obviously lots of time to amend that pitch.

If the WB really takes off in 20 years it would have much more potential than Berkley/Riverfront and a streetcar on 12th St would tie the residents to downtown in 5 minutes. Would the ascent/descent incline make that unworkable or would a real cable be required?

Karambit25 wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 12:56 pm

freedog wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 10:31 am Also psyched by this announcement. Worth thinking through ways to better connect WB to the core. I think the gondola as it was previously pitched bypassed the West Bottoms and connected to Strawberry Hill. Obviously lots of time to amend that pitch.

If the WB really takes off in 20 years it would have much more potential than Berkley/Riverfront and a streetcar on 12th St would tie the residents to downtown in 5 minutes. Would the ascent/descent incline make that unworkable or would a real cable be required?

Dave has said previously that the SC is not incompatible with the viaduct.

Glad you all are starting to realize that the disconnection from the loop and urban core is a problem. And that it needs to be fixed or this is all gonna be "meh" in the end.

What if we just did that very last gondola part that gets you up to the loop instead of a giant one that's not needed. We just need that one section. It'll be more realistic & necessary.

grovester wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 1:07 pm

Karambit25 wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 12:56 pm

freedog wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 10:31 am Also psyched by this announcement. Worth thinking through ways to better connect WB to the core. I think the gondola as it was previously pitched bypassed the West Bottoms and connected to Strawberry Hill. Obviously lots of time to amend that pitch.

If the WB really takes off in 20 years it would have much more potential than Berkley/Riverfront and a streetcar on 12th St would tie the residents to downtown in 5 minutes. Would the ascent/descent incline make that unworkable or would a real cable be required?

Dave has said previously that the SC is not incompatible with the viaduct.

12th street E/W gets you to East Village too if the ballpark ends up there

We just need what the Portland gondola tram has.

Just get a one stop gondola that goes from West Bottoms to the Loop & back. That's it. We don't seem unrealistic grandiose gondola. We just need to get people over that highway and up the hill. This could actually happen if it were kept simple & slim like this.

Portland built this single tram for only $57 mil and I don't even think ours would be as big. They could find the money for that. And it would actually be purposeful too.

freedog wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 1:21 pm

grovester wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 1:07 pm

Karambit25 wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 12:56 pm

If the WB really takes off in 20 years it would have much more potential than Berkley/Riverfront and a streetcar on 12th St would tie the residents to downtown in 5 minutes. Would the ascent/descent incline make that unworkable or would a real cable be required?

Dave has said previously that the SC is not incompatible with the viaduct.

12th street E/W gets you to East Village too if the ballpark ends up there

Some more history on the 12th Viaduct:
https://www.ahr-kc.com/reports/12th_str ... y_viaduct/

5.5% grade going down 12th viaduct. 3% on the middle deck. Really depends more on weight/structure of the bridge. If you look at the viaduct itself, you'll notice the N piers are larger from when the original streetcar ran to the WB down the bridge. Gondola is a decent idea, but I'm not sure if it really would have the development or network impact a streetcar has, plus closures for weather and wind. The views would be cool though. Agreed that something needs to be done to improve the streetscape + connectivity of the WB. NextRail put $71M price tag on the viaduct in 2013 and thought it would work.

GRADE
Kansas City has a number of steep grades that
could inhibit streetcar operation, or make streetcar
operation too expensive. While modern streetcars
can climb grades as much as 9% for short
distances (approximately 700-800 feet), sustained
grades over 7% are generally discouraged,
particularly in climates where snow and ice are
regular occurrences. Thus, corridors with grades
between 7% and 9% will be carried forward to
Tier 2 only if they pass all other screening criteria

https://kcstreetcar.org/wp-content/uplo ... erview.pdf

All this development, the new build by Kemper, the new park, green line, and the rehab of the bridge. Hard to imagine how good the West Bottoms will look in Ten years

Rabble wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 10:48 am The UG is now rebuilding the levees on both sides of the Kaw and will include walking/biking trails and recreational access to the river. The Rock Island bridge is set to be an entertainment/dining river crossing. The land on both sides of the Kaw is owned by people very interested in redevelopment. So a very exciting time for the KCK side of the West Bottoms as well.

Another piece of good news for the WB is the bioswale that was built east of Liberty Street between 14th & 16th.

Isn’t the goal to tie those trails on top of the levees into riverfront trail as well, and then eventually connect it all to the green line?

Upgrade 12th St to BRT. You could literally use the existing route connecting 31st and Van Brunt to DTKC via Hardesty Av and E 12th St. It could share existing leveled boarding with Prospect MAX and continue past East Village Transit Center (and potential Royals stadium), the streetcar, into West Bottoms, on to Central, up 7th, to the transit center in KCK. It's more realistic than a gondola.

daGOAT wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 5:43 pm Upgrade 12th St to BRT. You could literally use the existing route connecting 31st and Van Brunt to DTKC via Hardesty Av and E 12th St. It could share existing leveled boarding with Prospect MAX and continue past East Village Transit Center (and potential Royals stadium), the streetcar, into West Bottoms, on to Central, up 7th, to the transit center in KCK. It's more realistic than a gondola.

Seriously though, if it could be built closer to true BRT it would work beautifully

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 5:26 pm

Rabble wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 10:48 am The UG is now rebuilding the levees on both sides of the Kaw and will include walking/biking trails and recreational access to the river. The Rock Island bridge is set to be an entertainment/dining river crossing. The land on both sides of the Kaw is owned by people very interested in redevelopment. So a very exciting time for the KCK side of the West Bottoms as well.

Another piece of good news for the WB is the bioswale that was built east of Liberty Street between 14th & 16th.

Isn’t the goal to tie those trails on top of the levees into riverfront trail as well, and then eventually connect it all to the green line?

I think that would make sense but as it was originally proposed it didn’t tie into those levee trails. Stayed in KCMO

freedog wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 8:23 pm

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 5:26 pm

Rabble wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 10:48 am The UG is now rebuilding the levees on both sides of the Kaw and will include walking/biking trails and recreational access to the river. The Rock Island bridge is set to be an entertainment/dining river crossing. The land on both sides of the Kaw is owned by people very interested in redevelopment. So a very exciting time for the KCK side of the West Bottoms as well.

Another piece of good news for the WB is the bioswale that was built east of Liberty Street between 14th & 16th.

Isn’t the goal to tie those trails on top of the levees into riverfront trail as well, and then eventually connect it all to the green line?

I think that would make sense but as it was originally proposed it didn’t tie into those levee trails. Stayed in KCMO

Would the levee trails being under the UG complicate this matter? I figured they’d be able to work together just fine to flesh a whole system out.

The city is building a protected bikeway down Chavez to the Stockyards where the entertainment bridge is planned. I dont know exactly where it ends, but it will be easy to plug into the levee there . And there is the trail that runs under 670 over to DT kck. That one is basically already connected to the levee itself.

So the trail systems already work together it seems

Wouldn't it be easier to clean up the connection to Chavez and have that be the main WB access point, rather than a gondola? Not totally sold that the main WB access has to be directly to the core.

chaglang wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 9:09 am Wouldn't it be easier to clean up the connection to Chavez and have that be the main WB access point, rather than a gondola? Not totally sold that the main WB access has to be directly to the core.

It would be a good idea to clean it up and have it as an option, but where it puts you south of Kemper just seems less ideal than 12th street.

I just hope people don't start calling the area WeBo or somthing lol

Then just undo the cluster at the bottom of the 12th street bridge. And reinforce the Beardsley connection.

Fixing the intersection of Chavez and SW Blvd would be useful also.

daGOAT wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 10:56 am I just hope people don't start calling the area WeBo or somthing lol

More likely it ends up being called The Stockyards or something like that (if not still just the West Bottoms)

chaglang wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 10:59 am Then just undo the cluster at the bottom of the 12th street bridge. And reinforce the Beardsley connection.

Fixing the intersection of Chavez and SW Blvd would be useful also.

Agreed. Beardsley and the lower 12th Street bridge is my preferred access to West Bottoms. The upper 12th bridge is for DT and the Loop in particular. The Beardsley/Bridge connection is in rough shape and and dangerous in my opinion.

Bummer about Weld Wheel. That's the largest building left in the WB after all the fires. I thought it was going to be converted to apartments at one time.

Is one developer having so much control and property a good idea though? I hope they are able to keep things going especially after they start tearing things down.