Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

[normalthings]

We aren’t opposed to the actual restaurant of Winsteads or mcDonalds. We just want urban format stores instead, not drive thru’s. Especially not in key locations like next to our city’s biggest transit station.

Like the new Taco Bell cantina in Westport. That’s the perfect type of urban format fast food we need.

Fast format requires high volume and in KC that means drive throughs

[chrizow]

probably a moot point since Winstead's is almost certainly on its last legs--but the architecture of the location seems fine to me, as a relic. it was built in, what, the 1940s, when the city was 5x as dense as it is now? i guess one could argue it was an early symptom of the car-centric culture that ultimately led to the dismantling of the city but it's also kind of an icon in a way almost no other restaurant in KC is. i wouldn't be mad to see the winstead's preserved, as-is, but surrounded by dense residential or mixed-use development. even better--a new owner could keep the vibe but upgrade the food, maybe get a booze license, and make it more of a modern take on the original.

[AlkaliAxel]

We aren’t opposed to the actual restaurant of Winsteads or mcDonalds. We just want urban format stores instead, not drive thru’s. Especially not in key locations like next to our city’s biggest transit station.

Like the new Taco Bell cantina in Westport. That’s the perfect type of urban format fast food we need.

Fast format requires high volume and in KC that means drive throughs

Tell that to Taco Bell? First drive thru I’ve seen make the leap here

An urban format McDonalds would absolutely get a ton of traffic if they tried it. This isn’t JoCo.

[chrizow]

An urban format McDonalds would absolutely get a ton of traffic if they tried it. This isn’t JoCo.

i mean...this has been tried. there was a mcdonald's on the plaza for many years, where noodles & co (?) is (was?) now, next to the defunct movie theatre.

[normalthings]

We aren’t opposed to the actual restaurant of Winsteads or mcDonalds. We just want urban format stores instead, not drive thru’s. Especially not in key locations like next to our city’s biggest transit station.

Like the new Taco Bell cantina in Westport. That’s the perfect type of urban format fast food we need.

Fast format requires high volume and in KC that means drive throughs

Tell that to Taco Bell? First drive thru I’ve seen make the leap here

An urban format McDonalds would absolutely get a ton of traffic if they tried it. This isn’t JoCo.

Fast food no drive through has been tried and failed a few times around KC. Like it’s clearly been tried and doesn’t work for the most part.

Are there any Taco Bell Cantinas with drive thourghs?

[AlkaliAxel]

An urban format McDonalds would absolutely get a ton of traffic if they tried it. This isn’t JoCo.

i mean...this has been tried. there was a mcdonald's on the plaza for many years, where noodles & co (?) is (was?) now, next to the defunct movie theatre.

I was thinking more downtown. But as long as I’ve been in KCMO I’ve seen no McDonalds without drive thru. And I’m willing to bet nowadays there’s alot bigger constituency for walkable fast food than there was pre-2010. It’s very hard when your only option is fine dining or the grocery store, and nothing in between. Especially that we have a legit amount of residents downtown now. Plaza too is even worse- we don’t even get the grocery store option like downtown gets. There’s nothing in the middle.

[normalthings]

An urban format McDonalds would absolutely get a ton of traffic if they tried it. This isn’t JoCo.

i mean...this has been tried. there was a mcdonald's on the plaza for many years, where noodles & co (?) is (was?) now, next to the defunct movie theatre.

I was thinking more downtown. But as long as I’ve been in KCMO I’ve seen no McDonalds without drive thru. And I’m willing to bet nowadays there’s alot bigger constituency for walkable fast food than there was pre-2010. It’s very hard when your only option is fine dining or the grocery store, and nothing in between. Especially that we have a legit amount of residents downtown now. Plaza too is even worse- we don’t even get the grocery store option like downtown gets. There’s nothing in the middle.

Last attempt was BK Burger Bar post 2010s. Panchos and Town Topic feel this need but show it really only works with driving accommodations.

[chrizow]

unfortunately, the Plaza is essentially a shopping mall in charming 1920s architecture. its core function is not serving a neighborhood, it's maximizing rents from (mostly) the chains that can afford them. it will be interesting to see what happens to the Plaza in the next 10-20 years. brick and mortar retail is essentially dead and is not going to come back, including (or even especially) on the Plaza. as long as the Plaza is a monolith owned and managed by a mall operator, it will never be a neighborhood or offer much variety. it's an asset on a spreadsheet at the Simon Property Group in Indianapolis, who by definition have absolutely no clue how to build a community in KC.

[normalthings]

QT had a location inside Sprint Center for awhile. Not sure why it didn't last.

I always assumed it was more of a brand license/marketing thinf

[AlkaliAxel]

Last attempt was BK Burger Bar post 2010s. Panchos and Town Topic feel this need but show it really only works with driving accommodations.

Ok, fair point I will grant you that. However, I just think we still have to keep trying. Eventually we will get to a point where downtown can service a fast food joint like that.

And there's just got to be an option for people who go car-less & pedestrians to be able to eat cheap fast food like that downtown. So we have to do it at some point. Same applies for Plaza at some point.

Somehow, Midtown got there though.

[earthling]

it's an asset on a spreadsheet at the Simon Property Group in Indianapolis, who by definition have absolutely no clue how to build a community in KC.

And Simon's financials are approaching bankruptcy territory. The other part owner Macerich is even worse. Even if they survive bankruptcy they'll probably be too weak long term to invest into what the Plaza deserves. The Plaza needs a more formidable mutli-use owner in better financial shape. A mall owner isn't going to cut it.

[WoodDraw]

QT had a location inside Sprint Center for awhile. Not sure why it didn't last.

I always assumed it was more of a brand license/marketing thinf

Yeah, it was a marketing play. It was so long ago my memory is poor, but I think they were launching their new food/kitchen options at the time. It was almost more of a naming rights/advertising deal.

[ericwyner]

We aren’t opposed to the actual restaurant of Winsteads or mcDonalds. We just want urban format stores instead, not drive thru’s. Especially not in key locations like next to our city’s biggest transit station.

Like the new Taco Bell cantina in Westport. That’s the perfect type of urban format fast food we need.

do any McDs serve beer?

[ericwyner]

QT had a location inside Sprint Center for awhile. Not sure why it didn't last.

I always assumed it was more of a brand license/marketing thinf

it was only open during events, had no access from outside

[Cratedigger]

We aren’t opposed to the actual restaurant of Winsteads or mcDonalds. We just want urban format stores instead, not drive thru’s. Especially not in key locations like next to our city’s biggest transit station.

Like the new Taco Bell cantina in Westport. That’s the perfect type of urban format fast food we need.

do any McDs serve beer?

Not in the US. But I’ve seen some in Europe that do

[FangKC]

QT had a location inside Sprint Center for awhile. Not sure why it didn't last.

I always assumed it was more of a brand license/marketing thinf

it was only open during events, had no access from outside

fa
I thought it was a mistake from the beginning that they didn't design it to have a separate entrance to the plaza facing Grand so that it could be open when the arena was closed. If you want to control access to it during arena events, then design each entrance to be locked depending on which is needed or not needed that day.

[FlippantCitizen]

Once the streetcar reaches the Plaza it will be really interesting to see how that affects things. With the potential of more foot traffic from streetcar and additional nearby residential coming online like the Madison, Belleview project, former Holiday Inn site (what's up with that project anyway?), maybe a a big dense project at the tennis courts inshallah. The area is going to have to respond. I was mostly joking about QT because I was getting roasted over on reddit for questioning QT food. Though a urban format QT right off the streetcar stop on the ground floor of a future tennis courts building would probably clean up.

Best thing about the Plaza right now IMO is Shake Shack. Ties in with the fast food/counter eats conversation we've been having but get a couple more fast casual food places on the Plaza, only other I can think of now is Panera. The more time that goes on without a serious proposal to replace the Nordstrom the more it reinforces that the Plaza is basically screwed. Not least because of the (well established on this board) dynamic with Johnson County based shoppers and competing retail centers at Town Center, 135th Street etc. The Plaza should be the highest of high end retail in the metro but we are borderline or below the line as a metro for certain high end retail brands and the demographic/geographic realities of the metro works against us being able to consolidate a high end retail district when there are competing areas and many brands won't be able to justify more than one store in a metro our size.

TLDR: I can't wait for the plaza to change hands because nothing can really save it within the framework of its current conception as a mall.

[TheSmokinPun]

The arena QT sucked. Was just fountain drinks, slushies, and some prepared food items. I don't think they even had roller items.

Was just a rebranded regular arena outlet with some special food items, was never really an actual QuikTrip.

[AlkaliAxel]

Imagine how well the Plaza would be doing if it had neighborhood amenities and still most of its nice/luxury places

[moderne]

Then take a time machine back to the sixties and seventies, that is what you are describing. Why and how did the Plaza deviate from this?