Downtown Baseball Stadium

[KCPowercat]

Same people who probably go on vacation to major European cities and then complain about crime and parking in KC. Absolute mouth breathers.

I think I must know you from another site based on this.

[KCPowercat]

That's a given about any members of a Facebook group. And much like members here who seem to feel the Royals downtown stadium is a slam dunk for passage because of the Chiefs. However there are some of the members I know who posted and do live in KCMO in Jackson County. Also know others who live in KCMO/Jackson County and they too don't want a downtown stadium.

Is this a complete thought?

[KCPowercat]

I walk around the new downtown stadium location quite a bit but really paid attention this weekend and I can see why they are facing the stadium SE due to the natural elevation. They can make a bowl easier behind home plate and not have the dug out portion of land in the outfield.

[TheUrbanRoo]

I appreciate what they're doing with the streetscape & the surrounding development for the EV site plan...but man do they need to design the stadium much better. I haven't heard a single positive comment online or in person about that rendering.

There stadiums designed in the 90s that look better than that. Sports architecture capital? Do better. Holy moly.

[KCPowercat]

It hasn't been designed yet

[GRID]

Okay, after spending some time at both sites a hitting up a game at Kauffman, here are some thoughts.

NKC should be a no go. Just stop with NKC. It's an interesting area and starting to evolve a little from industrial to more mixed use, but that is just not the right place for a ballpark.

The stadium has to go to EV. But they need to almost start over with the design. It's just not good enough. The stadium needs a much bigger wow factor and there needs to be some guarantees that the surrounding development will go up along with the stadium, not 10-15-20 year later or it will be huge fail. KC has the best ballpark design firms in the world. They have to step to the plate. But overall, I feel like the EV site should work fine. I forgot how small downtown KC is how quick you can walk to P&L etc. EV will be fine. Still wish they could at least spin the stadium around for a view of the Crown Center skyline at least, but whatever. Just come up with a good design.

Most people I talked to were against the idea of a new stadium till I convinced them otherwise. I mean VERY against it. It takes me about 30 minutes to really get people to understand why a new ballpark is needed. I just don't know how your basic voter is going be educated enough to vote for a new stadium, but hopefully it happens.

As far as Kauffman. it's just not that great of of stadium. It's pretty at night and looks great when it's full, but for some reason it's becoming very over-rated. The only decent part of Kauffman is the outfield area and it's nothing special. I do think the new stadium still needs more emphasis on fountains and the big scoreboard, but even a huge fan that grew up going to Kauffman. It's past time to let it go. It's been a great ballpark, but it's time to move on.

Another thing I noticed was there was almost nobody there in their 20s-30s like I'm used to seeing at Nats stadium. I don't think the Royals draw from that demographic AT ALL. Another reason to build downtown.

[KCPowercat]

There is no stadium design yet.

Great comments agree with the whole post.

[Rusty Irish]

Another thing I noticed was there was almost nobody there in their 20s-30s like I'm used to seeing at Nats stadium. I don't think the Royals draw from that demographic AT ALL. Another reason to build downtown.

Funny you say that. Last time I was at the K earlier in the season me and my girlfriend were probably among the youngest there and we are in our early 30s. It was a beautiful summer night too. Crowd was more or less just older diehards, retired folk almost. Not the after-work crowd by any stretch.

[TheUrbanRoo]

Well yeah. Because they designed the entire thing around nobody else but families. Young people want to be downtown or in the city. They also don’t want to pay exorbitant fees for parking at the K. But families can afford them. And every amenity at Kauffman is designed for 5 year olds. So if the team is shitty, what incentive is there for anyone under 40 to go?

Thankfully, they realize this mistake and are moving.

[langosta]

Well yeah. Because they designed the entire thing around nobody else but families. Young people want to be downtown or in the city. They also don’t want to pay exorbitant fees for parking at the K. But families can afford them. And every amenity at Kauffman is designed for 5 year olds. So if the team is shitty, what incentive is there for anyone under 40 to go?

Thankfully, they realize this mistake and are moving.

Plenty of other stadiums have family amenities AND draws young adults

[Highlander]

As far as Kauffman. it's just not that great of of stadium. It's pretty at night and looks great when it's full, but for some reason it's becoming very over-rated. The only decent part of Kauffman is the outfield area and it's nothing special. I do think the new stadium still needs more emphasis on fountains and the big scoreboard, but even a huge fan that grew up going to Kauffman. It's past time to let it go. It's been a great ballpark, but it's time to move on.

Kauffman is unfortunately acquiring the same mythological status in Kansas City as KCI - as some kind of state of the art, best in class venue revered by the baseball world. I have to admit that unlike KCI which I thought was just a pitiful embarrassment to the city, I do actually like Kauffman Stadium although it has long outlived its high standing in the baseball world. I've lived in KC for most of two baseball seasons now and I'm yet to attend a game. The fact that the Royals suck is part of it but I just don't like the hassle of going out to east KC for a poor team and an overall average experience. I'd much rather go to the PAC or an event at TMobile Arena have a beer at a local brewery or catch a dinner at a local restaurant as part of the experience.

I don't get the Save Kauffman sympathies. It's not that great of a stadium; I love the experiences I had there in late 70's and early 80's but that was 40 years ago when the world and baseball was a very different place. I think people from the burbs just like the fact that it's a hermetically sealed environment with large parking lots and straightforward auto ingress/egress (although definitely not easy or quick) accompanied by another straightforward walk from the parking lot to the stadium. Perceived convenience. It's like the difference between the known comforts of a McDonald's drive thru over the unknown but almost assuredly better dining experience of a local joint that actually tries.

It's funny how the same words appear in the Kauffman/KCI debates. Convenience, parking, walking time, mythological status of the venue.....

[Highlander]

Well yeah. Because they designed the entire thing around nobody else but families. Young people want to be downtown or in the city. They also don’t want to pay exorbitant fees for parking at the K. But families can afford them. And every amenity at Kauffman is designed for 5 year olds. So if the team is shitty, what incentive is there for anyone under 40 to go?

Thankfully, they realize this mistake and are moving.

Plenty of other stadiums have family amenities AND draws young adults

Yea - I was at a Twins game recently at Target Field. Wonderful stadium and a crowd with ranging demographics and all ages.

[TheUrbanRoo]

Well yeah. Because they designed the entire thing around nobody else but families. Young people want to be downtown or in the city. They also don’t want to pay exorbitant fees for parking at the K. But families can afford them. And every amenity at Kauffman is designed for 5 year olds. So if the team is shitty, what incentive is there for anyone under 40 to go?

Thankfully, they realize this mistake and are moving.

Plenty of other stadiums have family amenities AND draws young adults

Yea - I was at a Twins game recently at Target Field. Wonderful stadium and a crowd with ranging demographics and all ages.

Sure, you can have both. But like I said, this entire stadium setup and pricing is revolving around JoCo families. Nothing more. There's really no incentive right now for a young person person to go.

[dnweava]

As far as Kauffman. it's just not that great of of stadium.

It's not that great of a stadium; I love the experiences I had there in late 70's and early 80's but that was 40 years ago when the world and baseball was a very different place.

You guys are completely wrong. It is a great stadium and the current stadium is FAR nicer than it was in the 70s-80s. The 2009 renovation still holds up very well, did you guys forget that literally half the stadium is only just over a decade old, everything but the seating bowl is literally newer than the T-Mobile center. (the entire outfield, the entrances, the concourses, etc were all rebuilt from scratch) I've been to a game this month and you guys are just wrong. It is NOTHING like the KCI conversation, that old terminal was a POS.

Now I am 100% in favor of going downtown (EV) because of the location but people need to quit lying about the state of the K just to help sell the move.

[Highlander]

As far as Kauffman. it's just not that great of of stadium.

It's not that great of a stadium; I love the experiences I had there in late 70's and early 80's but that was 40 years ago when the world and baseball was a very different place.

You guys are completely wrong. It is a great stadium and the current stadium is FAR nicer than it was in the 70s-80s. The 2009 renovation still holds up very well, did you guys forget that literally half the stadium is only just over a decade old, everything but the seating bowl is literally newer than the T-Mobile center. (the entire outfield, the entrances, the concourses, etc were all rebuilt from scratch) I've been to a game this month and you guys are just wrong. It is NOTHING like the KCI conversation, that old terminal was a POS.

Now I am 100% in favor of going downtown (EV) because of the location but people need to quit lying about the state of the K just to help sell the move.

It's not a bad stadium. It's not one of the best stadiums in baseball anymore either. It was certainly better relative to its peers in the 80's than it is today. But part of a being a good stadium is the location. It's a big part of it actually.

I've looked at about five rankings this morning of MLB stadiums. Best Royals Stadium gets is 16th. It generally ranks between 16-20. Not regarded as one of the best stadiums in the league. It's not a bad stadium but it doesn't live up to local mythology which is generally based on 80's sentiment when it actually was among the better stadiums in the league.

And I would disagree that it's unlike the KCI debate. It certainly isn't in as bad shape as KCI or even in bad shape at all and I said that but, like KCI, the specter of convenience and overrating the existing facility looms high.

https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2023/0 ... um--royals

[bhedges1987]

Kauffman is beautiful. Ya'll ever seen the infamous Wrigley or Fenway? Dumpster fires. A lot of seats are blocked by support beams so you can't even see.
I do want the stadium moved downtown with that being said. Nobody really tailgates at royals games, and baseball is just better downtown. Arrowhead on the other hand needs to stay put.

[TheSmokinPun]

Arrowhead on the other hand needs to stay put.

The more I see journalists raving about the Vikings stadium in Minneapolis, the more I want the Chiefs to honestly look at the Paseo West land. I don't necessarily think they need a big dome like they have up north but the concept, location, idea of it sitting that close to downtown, I think it could be something special.

[beautyfromashes]

Kauffman is beautiful. Ya'll ever seen the infamous Wrigley or Fenway? Dumpster fires. A lot of seats are blocked by support beams so you can't even see.
I do want the stadium moved downtown with that being said. Nobody really tailgates at royals games, and baseball is just better downtown. Arrowhead on the other hand needs to stay put.

I've sat directly behind one of those posts at Fenway. I'd take that seat over most any at Kauffman for several reasons.

[GRID]

As far as Kauffman. it's just not that great of of stadium.

It's not that great of a stadium; I love the experiences I had there in late 70's and early 80's but that was 40 years ago when the world and baseball was a very different place.

You guys are completely wrong. It is a great stadium and the current stadium is FAR nicer than it was in the 70s-80s. The 2009 renovation still holds up very well, did you guys forget that literally half the stadium is only just over a decade old, everything but the seating bowl is literally newer than the T-Mobile center. (the entire outfield, the entrances, the concourses, etc were all rebuilt from scratch) I've been to a game this month and you guys are just wrong. It is NOTHING like the KCI conversation, that old terminal was a POS.

Now I am 100% in favor of going downtown (EV) because of the location but people need to quit lying about the state of the K just to help sell the move.

The location is 90% of what ruins Kauffman stadium and the tiny crowds just make it worse. It honestly feels like going to a minor league stadium, it's "too" family oriented and it feels small or something. Then the Royals start playing and you wonder if they could beat most AAA teams lol.

But the stadium itself is not that great. I would still rank it around 15 in MLB and that's where most people that have been to all parks put it today. If also ranking locations, Kauffman would rank in the mid 20's IMO. I agree the outfield area is nice. The fountains, the wide concourses, the views of the stadium, and the more social gathering type seating.

But the rest of the stadium? Come on. Like I said, it looks nice when full, but other than that, it's just old. Nothing special about it all. The concourses are narrow, the upper deck is like 5000 rows to the top and there is nothing on the concourses up there. It's just a big 1960's concrete bowl like all the other stadiums that were torn down only it was built for a single sport instead of multi purpose.

The people that keep bringing up Wrigley and Fenway are out of their minds. There is no comparison what so ever. Not to mention if either of those stadiums were in a location like Kauffman, they would not have any draw at all and would be terrible stadiums. It's the neighborhoods around those stadiums that make them destinations. And the stadiums have far more history than Kauffman ever will. They need to tear down Dodgers stadium too, but they draw 50k a game, so there is no point.

Kauffman is okay. It's needs a ton of work though and there is zero reason to put any more money into that stadium. If the stadium didn't need a renovation, it would be fine, but it does. You can tell if you look at any of the structure outside the outfield. Much of the concrete in that stadium needs to be replaced or refurbished and that will be expensive.

Also the area around the stadium makes KC look like a decaying hick town. Vacant or deteriorating low density almost rural sprawl. That alone is enough reason to walk away from Kauffman.

[TheUrbanRoo]

Kauffman has 100% moved into the overrated territory because of fans overreacting now to the stadium going downtown. It's fine, and they're acting like it's Wrigley/Fenway.