Poll: Power & Light District Dress Code

[LenexatoKCMO]

It keeps out a style/attitude, not a color of person.

Indeed - I seriously doubt that Cordish really wants Chrizow's "white raytown wanabe gangstas" anymore than the genuine article.  Suburban customers dont care whether the gangster is the real deal or the right color - its the fact that they are dressed like that character they saw do the drive by in that gangsta movie they watched that one time that makes them nervous.  

[KCPowercat]

So now with this ordinance, the west bottoms clubs that market towards urban hip-hop culture can keep their dress codes that doesn't allow these fashions (saggy pants, athletic wear) but the p&l can't?  Are those urban hip hop clubs enforcing a racist dress code too?

Backwards hats were started by baseball catchers, is a dress code disallowing backwards hats discrimantory towards baseball catchers?  Poor example but my point being, a dress code just doesn't disallow those who began the fashion trend.

[im2kull]

Cordish wants to keep the district from becoming a westport/skybox type of deal, so they try to use an overinclusive dress code to keep out that element.   

And that's a bad thing?  The last I checked there wasn't a "Dave & Busters" in westport, or any "Chuck-e-Cheezes"...if you catch my drift..

[chrizow]

Hold on to your wallet's and purse's the gangsta's are coming..............

the above sentiment, from a dress code supporter, pretty much says it all.  of course the policy language isn't going to be race-specific, -Cordish isn't stupid- but that's exactly what the effect is.

^ Most of the bouncers are black.  I just don't buy that they would be told, "Target black people." by their managers and go along with it.  Don't you think if it was the case that there was a specific, stated effort to target black people that someone would quit and file charges or at least go to the media? People seem to always be looking for conspiracies.

i didn't say that the managers would tell the bouncers to target black people.  i think that the bouncers would probably focus on black gangsta-dressed folks on their own, regardless of what color the bouncer is.  even if they denied entry equally among "urban" styled persons, 99% of them are going to be black.  do you think that is just a random, race-neutral coincidence?  are you new to KCMO?  

The fact that its not allowing in complete gang bangers is something I'm proud of, I don't want to have to deal with that trash while having a night out on the town.  If you want everyday to be a re-enactment of the St. Pattys day parade a few years back, then go ahead...get rid of any sort of dress code/code of conduct.  See what happens to DT then...

You Think Funk has killed off development DT, wait untill the shootings start...

thank you.  you support the dress code b/c it keeps out black gangsters.  dont get me wrong, i dont want the P+L to become westport/skybox/st. pat's/whatever, but it's disingenuous to deny that this policy is targeted to black males (and possibly hispanic males).

[KCPowercat]

All black people aren't gangsters and all gangsters aren't black but for some reason chriz keeps injecting that assumption into everybody's points. Why?

[im2kull]

thank you.  you support the dress code b/c it keeps out black gangsters.  dont get me wrong, i dont want the P+L to become westport/skybox/st. pat's/whatever, but it's disingenuous to deny that this policy is targeted to black males (and possibly hispanic males).

Look, if there was a 1:1 ratio of white gangstas to black gangstas then it would target just as many whites as blacks.  Let's all get off the Race train, that baby hit the station in the 60's...its old news now.

[chrizow]

All black people aren't gangsters and all gangsters aren't black but for some reason chriz keeps injecting that assumption into everybody's points. Why?

cheap shot.  that's not what i am saying at all.  i am well aware that not all black people are gangsters.  i am also well aware that many people of all races who dress in an urban/hip-hop style are not bona fide gangsters.  however, Cordish aims, understandably, to keep out the tiny % of real gangsters, so they drafted a policy that in effect denies access to all the good folks who dress in this style.  

in addition to trying to keep out the bona fide gangstas who might cause trouble in the district, Cordish is absolutely trying to minimize the number of persons of color present in the district who dress in this style, b/c, frankly, a lot of people (of all races) sometimes feel threatened when around groups of persons of color dressed in that manner.  were you all born in a barn?     if you don't think this is a pervasive point of view, please read the comments on the KC Star every once in a while, particularly w/r/t Bannister Mall. 

Let's all get off the Race train, that baby hit the station in the 60's...its old news now.

riiiight.  race relations in KC are just hunky-dory.  thanks for the update.  here's a suggestion:  instead of trying to justify race-based discrimination policies handed down by a corporation, why don't we at least TRY and listen to the perspective of people who experience/live discrimination on a daily basis?  not saying that "playing the race card" is always justified, but nor is instinctively dismissing these views.

[im2kull]

All black people aren't gangsters and all gangsters aren't black but for some reason chriz keeps injecting that assumption into everybody's points. Why?

Because that's what E-Thugs do? 




(No offense Chriz...KCP just set that one up perfectly)

[im2kull]

cheap shot.  that's not what i am saying at all.  i am well aware that not all black people are gangsters.  i am also well aware that many people of all races who dress in an urban/hip-hop style are not bona fide gangsters.  however, Cordish aims, understandably, to keep out the tiny % of real gangsters, so they drafted a policy that in effect denies access to all the good folks who dress in this style.  

Good point, but maybe Cordish knew that the only people stupid enough to actually bother showing up at the district dressed like a fool are real gangstas?   How do you know I don't dress like that all day?  You don't...and the fact of the matter is that when I do go out, I make sure to dress accordingly...as any half ape with the brain of a 1yr old can do.  Its your own problem if you wear a dew rag, or have sagging pants and aren't allowed into Plaza III or Bentons.

Comprende?

[KCPowercat]

Chriz...you put in your reply that kull supported the dress code because it kept out black gangsters". Nowhere did I read he said that. That's why I posted that.

How about my post about the west bottoms clubs...are those also racists dress codes?  Why in the world does the council find it alright that they can keep their dress standards???  This is what upsets me about the whole thing...pass it for all businesses in kcmo.

[beautyfromashes]

i think that the bouncers would probably focus on black gangsta-dressed folks on their own, regardless of what color the bouncer is.

So, black bouncers are taking it upon themselves to descriminate against other black people without any directive from their management?  Come on!  You're grasping here!

[im2kull]

Why in the world does the council find it alright that they can keep their dress standards???   This is what upsets me about the whole thing...pass it for all businesses in kcmo.

Kinda like the smoking ban?  And the ATA funding being diverted by the council (after they strike down the voters bill for LRT that would have done the same thing...but for a more useful purpose)?  What a double standard they consistently set...

[im2kull]

riiiight.  race relations in KC are just hunky-dory.  thanks for the update.

Fuggin wake up Chriz....this isn't the Watts district of LA that we're talking about!  I'm black, but you don't see me running my mouth crying foul.  Sure, I don't like being looked at like a gangsta, but I know better than to dress like that when I'm clubbin.  If its just me and the homies hitting up a party, then ok..jersey city...but Bentons...come on...really?  Use common sense, I don't expect to see anyone get a free pass if they're dressed to kill..code of conduct or not.  I'm starting to wonder if you really live in or around KC, let alone have visited here.

[LenexatoKCMO]

cheap shot.  that's not what i am saying at all.  i am well aware that not all black people are gangsters.  i am also well aware that many people of all races who dress in an urban/hip-hop style are not bona fide gangsters.  however, Cordish aims, understandably, to keep out the tiny % of real gangsters, so they drafted a policy that in effect denies access to all the good folks who dress in this style.  

in addition to trying to keep out the bona fide gangstas who might cause trouble in the district, Cordish is absolutely trying to minimize the number of persons of color present in the district who dress in this style, b/c, frankly, a lot of people (of all races) sometimes feel threatened when around groups of persons of color dressed in that manner.  were you all born in a barn?     if you don't think this is a pervasive point of view, please read the comments on the KC Star every once in a while, particularly w/r/t Bannister Mall. 

So if I am not a bank robber, but I like to dress up as a bank robber, due to my own personal taste - should the bank have to let me in when I show up dressed as a bank robber?  You keep ignoring the fact that these fashions are directly connected to organized crime and that many of the fashions involved are based in the historic roots of displaying one's affiliation with organized crime entities.  Its not as if these are fashions trace their roots to african or caribbean ethnic tradition - these fashions trace their roots to organized crime.  

[chrizow]

i personally dont care if the p+l wants to pursue its "race-neutral" dress code.  i just don't think it takes a race-theory grad student to infer more than a little bit of race-based discrimination in the code.  that's all.  as you know L2KCMO, plenty of ostensibly "race-neutral" policies in the employment context are successfully litigated based on their effect. 

while i hesitate to keep mentioning it, please see the comments on the KC Star site if you don't think there is a race component to this.  i am also sad to say that in my personal life i have come across similar race-based comments w/r/t to the policy - i.e. "without that policy, the blacks will take the P+L over just like they did bannister mall, and then you can kiss it goodbye."  i have heard in casual conversation this exact sentiment at least four time in the past month. 

do you really think Cordish is operating without that perception in mind?  get real!

[KCPowercat]

Third time:  are the dress codes of west bottoms hip hop clubs also racist?  They ban many of the same things.

I would be much more behind this ordinance if it included all bars/restaurants...including only tax incentivies districts is transparent to their intentions...they couldn't care less if a dress code is racist. Small minded council at its best.
Yeah for more lawsuits against the city.

[chrizow]

I'm black

[bahua]

I'm black, but you don't see me running my mouth crying foul.

You're not black, so please don't lie to push your point. If you're right, you shouldn't have to lie.

[im2kull]

i personally dont care if the p+l wants to pursue its "race-neutral" dress code.  i just don't think it takes a race-theory grad student to infer more than a little bit of race-based discrimination in the code.  that's all.  as you know L2KCMO, plenty of ostensibly "race-neutral" policies in the employment context are successfully litigated based on their effect. 

while i hesitate to keep mentioning it, please see the comments on the KC Star site if you don't think there is a race component to this.  i am also sad to say that in my personal life i have come across similar race-based comments w/r/t to the policy - i.e. "without that policy, the blacks will take the P+L over just like they did bannister mall, and then you can kiss it goodbye."  i have heard in casual conversation this exact sentiment at least four time in the past month. 

do you really think Cordish is operating without that perception in mind?  get real!

I'm african american, and it doesn't stop me from going to the P&L district.  I hate to keep ripping you, I really do...it feels like we're all against you today...but GET A GRIP.  The Dress code is just that, a dress code.  SURE it targets some of us, if we're dressed like gangstas, and sure it targets a lot of younger blacks...but hell...it doesn't directly say "NO BLACKS ALLOWED", so every point you make is moot.  Your IDEA that it directly attacks young minorities is off-base...any grad stundent should know this...as it can flip on a whim.  It all has to do with YOUR image of young blacks, not Cordishs'!  Had you taken ANY Sociology classes in college you would know that its all about your perception.  You percieve it to attack young black males, and you know what...your correct!...But who's to say that prohibiting sunglasses wouldn't attack young white males?  Or that in 20 years only young white males will dress as young black males do today?  You see, its all about perception...and you're vision...while it might be good right now, means nothing in the future.


A dress code, is a dress code.  Its that Simple.

[chrizow]

I'm african american,