KCRag Forum

Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 3:00 pm

normalthings wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 2:32 pm Nordstroms officially over

Now would be the perfect time to make that site home to a residential component.

This needs to happen. Fast.

yowza this news really puts the owners of the plaza in a bind. I hope they can think of something creative next.

Chris has the right idea.

This could be our shining chance to use that space and finally get Plaza going in a neighborhood direction. Maybe it’s a blessing in disguise.

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 2:33 pm Ughhhhhh

From KC Star: Nordstrom staying at Oak Park Mall, not moving to Plaza, customers told by employees

https://amp.kansascity.com/news/busines ... 05190.html

Nordstrom needs to do a major overhaul of its Oak Park Mall store, both cosmetically and from a merchandising perspective. And Oak Park Mall needs to get serious about leasing in the Nordstrom wing, targeting upscale stores to complement, and doing a renovation. It hasn't been touched since 1998 when Nordstrom opened, I believe, and it shows.

As for the Plaza... ugh. I agree with others; apartments with retail below. It would be nice to see a more upscale mix of tenants but realistically I think a small format Target or Amazon Fresh would be best.

A couple of snippets from the article

The Plaza had a theater tenant set to go into the former Cinemark Palace at the Plaza. But those plans could change with more consumers streaming movies now.

Faltermeier of Ice Cream Bae would like to have a farmers market, and said the Plaza is talking about a lawn space where customers can relax with a cup of coffee.

But a temporary traveling show, “Michelangelo’s Sistine Chapel — The Exhibition,” plans to open in the former Nike space starting April 1.

The Plaza also is adding another exclusive retailer, cult favorite Psycho Bunny. Other chains scheduled to open soon include Fabletics activewear, LoveSac furniture and Club Pilates.

Nothing else really ground shaking. They say there are two dozen empty store fronts, but i didn't see anywhere they specifically state what the occupancy or vacancy rate is.

msmith011 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 3:20 pm

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 2:33 pm Ughhhhhh

From KC Star: Nordstrom staying at Oak Park Mall, not moving to Plaza, customers told by employees

https://amp.kansascity.com/news/busines ... 05190.html

Nordstrom needs to do a major overhaul of its Oak Park Mall store, both cosmetically and from a merchandising perspective. And Oak Park Mall needs to get serious about leasing in the Nordstrom wing, targeting upscale stores to complement, and doing a renovation. It hasn't been touched since 1998 when Nordstrom opened, I believe, and it shows.

As for the Plaza... ugh. I agree with others; apartments with retail below. It would be nice to see a more upscale mix of tenants but realistically I think a small format Target or Amazon Fresh would be best.

As far as I can tell Nordstrom itself has never been renovated since opening. The mall itself has been renovated twice, most recently in 2011 when they removed the grand staircase, the children train, The neon oak leaves in the food court, and put new carpet and flooring throughout the mall. It took CBL over two months to even patch water damage where the plaster in the ceiling had a small collapse last fall, I wouldn’t expect much from a company that was just in bankruptcy. Living and working in Johnson county I can tell you now that it’s going to be at almost impossible battle to get the town center crowd to start shopping at the plaza or the mall again. I have one coworker who won’t even go there for Nordstrom or Dillards. She is so scared of OPM that she waits until they travel to Denver to shop at those stores.

Fabletics & Psycho Bunny are great gets. Two hot growing companies that young people like.

If we can retain these^ outlets, and then get a plethora of neighborhood amenities in the Nordstrom part, then I think we're cookin'

Couldn't give a shit about a Plaza park, that's not why people go to the Plaza tbh.

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 3:43 pm
Couldn't give a shit about a Plaza park, that's not why people go to the Plaza tbh.

Agreed. Besides, there's already Mill Creek Park

But can have 2 Nordstroms because couple JCPENNY's,Dillard's in area.

No high end hotels on the Plaza... and, NO! the Intercontinental is not high end!

empires228 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 3:41 pm

msmith011 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 3:20 pm

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 2:33 pm Ughhhhhh

From KC Star: Nordstrom staying at Oak Park Mall, not moving to Plaza, customers told by employees

https://amp.kansascity.com/news/busines ... 05190.html

Nordstrom needs to do a major overhaul of its Oak Park Mall store, both cosmetically and from a merchandising perspective. And Oak Park Mall needs to get serious about leasing in the Nordstrom wing, targeting upscale stores to complement, and doing a renovation. It hasn't been touched since 1998 when Nordstrom opened, I believe, and it shows.

As for the Plaza... ugh. I agree with others; apartments with retail below. It would be nice to see a more upscale mix of tenants but realistically I think a small format Target or Amazon Fresh would be best.

. She is so scared of OPM that she waits until they travel to Denver to shop at those stores.

Wow

Wow, that is a kick in the junk for the Plaza, in terms of retaining any kind of exclusivity from a retail stand point. I'm on the record saying no to a Target, since there is one somewhat close in Ward Parkway Center. Maybe if Target has some new fancy concept where they mix in high end brands along with other that would be cool. But a mix of boutiques or niche stores from larger brands would be neat. This could perhaps create some buzz. But My guess is they will convert to residential, which is good in that you'll have more people living there and the area becomes more of a entertainment dining area with a little mix of retail. Overall just really bad news, and to be honest I would not be surprised if Nordstrom is not prepared to stay very long at Oak Park either. They, for whatever reason, have seemed to soured on the KC Metro. Not having any department stores or retail at all within the Urban Core of Kansas City is kind of depressing, despite the growth in socio-economics. But if you want to buy anything now you have to go to OP land for just about anything. Northland doesn't have anything either. Maybe it will change over the years but still. A huge black eye for the Plaza . They are better off seeling the pieces to individual partners now and let each group develop what they will

I have said from day one that this will never open and if it did, it would close within a year. Need to put a higher density project there. Not really a target though. There re so many other places a target should go than the core of the plaza. Target should be the base of a residential development somewhere along the streetcar line.

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 3:19 pm Chris has the right idea.

This could be our shining chance to use that space and finally get Plaza going in a neighborhood direction. Maybe it’s a blessing in disguise.

If I controlled the Plaza, or were put in charge with the ability to change the direction using any means necessary, I'd target a few things...
1. Demolition of the former Halls/new Apple store and parking garage plus the demolition of the movie theater down where Nordstrom was supposed to go.
2. Develop all three parcels into residential usages.
3. Study whether or not 3 floors of residential can be added to the parking garage at 47th and Pennsylvania. If possible, add those three floors.
4. Overhaul the streetscape to be friendlier to pedestrians (I hate crossing 47th at Central in particular). This would include taking on a look like Rosemary Square in West Palm Beach (brick pavers, curb less and narrower streets, raised crosswalks, speed humps, and more trees).
5. Remove the Central parking garage (next to Starbucks in favor of a Plaza). I believe this was talked about on here before.

The area doesn't have to lose its shopping and charm, but it needs to get some residential to support more and new tenants. The general architectural style can be retained but needs to be done right.

^Yeah, have been calling for similar changes in that territory for years. It's time now. But Plaza probably needs to be sold off to an experienced urbane mixed use operator/developer, not a generic mall operator unable to adapt with the times. Am not at all surprised current owners blew it with Nordstroms.

viewtopic.php?t=20330

GRID wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 5:01 pm I have said from day one that this will never open and if it did, it would close within a year. Need to put a higher density project there. Not really a target though. There re so many other places a target should go than the core of the plaza. Target should be the base of a residential development somewhere along the streetcar line.

Do you think this could be a blessing in disguise now because we can re-design it for something better for the Plaza?

Goonies wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:28 pm

empires228 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 19, 2022 6:14 pm re has been pretty vocal on social media about how poorly Simon/Taubman/Macerich is running the center.

I befriended a regional manager for one of the largest clothing stores down on the plaza on Instagram the other day, and they said their location has gone from being one of the most productive in the country back during the recession to being low volume and he blames the company opening up a branch in Overland Park during the stores peak year on the decline. They’ve thought about shuttering three locations in the metro including the plaza, but they’re locked into some long-term leases. I’ll give a hint in that it’s not Old Navy.

H&M

Correct. The Plaza H&M apparently went from being one of the best performing locations during the first few years of business to the second-lowest in sales in the metro. The loss-leaders for the region are apparently Manhattan Town Center, Lee's Summit, St. Peter's, MO, and then The Plaza followed by good ol' Independence Center. The Plaza store does fine on weekends, but the shrink numbers are pretty high. This friend previously worked for Gap when the Plaza GAP and Bradley Fair GAP in Wichita were two of the most productive stores for the brand in the midwest.

earthling wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 5:27 pm ^Yeah, have been calling for similar changes in that territory for years. It's time now. But Plaza probably needs to be sold off to an experienced urbane mixed use operator/developer, not a generic mall operator unable to adapt with the times. Am not at all surprised current owners blew it with Nordstroms.

viewtopic.php?t=20330

Taubman should actually have a pretty good relationship with Nordstrom considering that Taubman has the market cornered on the nation's top-performing malls. Nordstrom seems to be the one who got cold feet and looking at the Plaza's long history of failure with department stores ranging from Bonwit Teller to Sears, there was never a legit reason IMO to think that Nordstrom would succeed where Saks, Dillard's, and Sears couldn't, especially after they couldn't generate the sales they wanted at Oak Park even back when it was one of the nations most productive malls.

I agree that Taubman isn't running the Plaza very well and that they need to take a loss and sell it to a developer who knows how to work with urban spaces, but Taubman overall is far from an inept company. Their history is riddled with them dumping their self-developed malls onto other developers the second they show a sign of weakness. The Plaza and their recent failure in Puerto Rico are somewhat of a first real blemish on their reputation.

A target isn't a bad idea but it would.have to.be part of a much bigger mixed use plan for the site.

Lot of residential around could use a walkable neighborhood store.

why doesn't TCP boot Macy's? does Macy's own the building? Macy's isn't upscale, just overpriced

mgsports wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 4:08 pm But can have 2 Nordstroms because couple JCPENNY's,Dillard's in area.

STL has 2 Nordstrom's and that's not quite a booming area