Bass Pro - DOWNTOWN?

KCN · Post by **KCN** » Sun Mar 30, 2003 5:08 pm

I agree with everything dangerboy and tat2kc said, but where are the extra shops and restaurants going to go if BPS is taking up 6 blocks of the soon-to-be best real estate in downtown (given that it will be between BH, Mun, and the proposed arena).

I'll hop on board as soon as I see a scaled down plan or another proposed location.

tat2kc · Post by **tat2kc** » Sun Mar 30, 2003 6:01 pm

Actually, BPS would not be my first choice at all for downtown. Its risky and needs to be monitored closely to ensure it is a good fit. I don't think it will pan out, due to the water feature issue, and the extremely high cost of building something like that in an urban core setting.

My preference would be to convert the Jones Store building into a 1st rate art exhibition space. I am specifically thinking of exhibit space that exist in other cities that are designed for some traveling, sometimes blockbuster art and history exhiibits. There is a space in Jackson MS that is basically one HUGE open space, used to house major art exhibits from around the world. They had a great exhibit a few years ago from France, and recreated several rooms, life size, from Versailles. It was amazing. Also, the current Russian Exhibit in Topeka, or the Smithsonian Exhibit at Bartle a few years ago. I am thinking of exhibits that are too big to be at the current museum exhibit space.

If Jones is redesigned to accomodate this type of usage, it could be jointly run by the Nelson, the Kemper, the Kansas Ctiy Museum, and an arts council. We could attract major traveling arts exhibits, or even design out own, bringing in major exhibits from important museums around the world. Can you imagine a massive exhibit from the Papal Musuems, the Louvre, or the Smithsonian? Have the exhibit open till 9 pm, there would be huge crowds who would enjoy the urban setting. transit links to the other museums in town, connecting the entire RiverCrownPlaza area. Wouldn't it be great if KC were nationally know as a world class exhibitor or important works of art and a showcase of history? Do 3 or 4 major exhibits a year, that run for weeks, and you have an ever changing feature that would attract not only tourists from all over, but also the locals.

How cool would it be to walk past the Jones store building and see the empty display windows filled with a rare Dali painting or an ancient Japanese sculpture that hints of what is inside?

ignatius · Post by **ignatius** » Sun Mar 30, 2003 6:59 pm

Now you're talking...

For tourists, someone had the idea of extending the Link from Union Station through the Crossroads District to the convention area. I kind of like the idea of stepping off in various spots of the gallery district that has restaurants/bars/curious entertainment along its path, then they walk over our rail heritage (trains run every 7 minutes there and we are the 2nd largest rail center in US) and then be greeted by the awesome (in the true sense of the word) Union Station. And then they discover Crown Center. What a cool pedestrian journey for tourists. Would be particularly great for winter too.

We need more creative ideas for tourists to play, that can be unique to KC, not this rehashed mundane megaplex thing.

Post by **dangerboy** » Sun Mar 30, 2003 7:22 pm

ignatius wrote:danger, I don't see how suggesting that the neighborhood deciding their own identity and function as prejudiced.

The prejudice part was directed towards the people that seemed horrified that there might be farmers and hunters taking over their coffee houses art galleries. It wasn't said, but I feel it was definitely implied.

As for the neighorhood deciding it's own identity, Downtown is different than any other neighborhood. Downtown should be everyone's neighborhood. I see a real disconnect when on one hand so many of us are trying to convince the whole metro to buy into the idea that a vibrant downtown is vital to the health of the whole region - and then on the other hand there are people telling those same folks to stay out of the decision-making. We are talking about a huge regional attraction, it's not like someone in Lone Jack is telling you where you can or can't put a barbershop.

My point is that Downtown is important for the entire region, and therefore all two million of us from Platte City to Quality Hill to Harrisonville should feel that they have an investment and stake in the health of Downtown.

ignatius · Post by **ignatius** » Mon Mar 31, 2003 2:00 pm

Good point. The Dowtown region is important to the whole region when speaking economically but I still feel those who live it day-to-day should at least approve what is happening to their neighborhood instead of dumping in something that they were not included on.

Post by **mean** » Mon Mar 31, 2003 3:35 pm

I still feel those who live it day-to-day should at least approve what is happening to their neighborhood instead of dumping in something that they were not included on.

...and something they would probably have little if any interest in. Putting BPS in downtown is kind of like putting a Sak's 5th Ave in downtown Buckner. Some people who live there will probably visit, and it will surely attract some out of town visitors, but...why? It doesn't fit the vibe, it doesn't blend in with the prevailing lifestyle of the surrounding area.

Which isn't to say that I don't like people who fish, or that I think 'rural-themed' stuff is inappropriate for downtown. As someone else mentioned, this city's history is deeply rooted in agricultural interests, and I think that's great. I would love to see touristy developments downtown that focus on agricultural or rural interests relevant to KC. I grinned like a fool when the big red bull went back up.

The only problem is deciding what, exactly, to do. I don't think the answer lies in a chain megastore, but I dunno...maybe there's one out there that fits the bill. Or maybe the answer isn't in 'tourist retail'.

Personally, I think if we really want tourists downtown we should put pressure on the MO Gaming Commission to stop this 'boats in moats' silliness so a casino could come downtown. Instead of the "casino destinations" we have built up along the river, a nice casino downtown, with street level retail and restaurants, could be a hit. Personally, I think a smaller casino than the big boys up north... perhaps themed something like an illegal Pendergast-era gambling house...would be the way to go. It could also be a huge mess, though, so like anything else would need a solid plan (which I don't have). The potential for other street-level entertainment (bars, clubs, movies) is staggering with even a very small casino in place, though, so I think it should be considered as a possibility. In my fancy dreamworld, I imagine an entire "tourist strip" of 1930s-style clubs and bars and restaurants and entertainment, although that might be even better in the jazz district. Ah well.

There are, of course, infinite other possibilities too. I wish the city were trying a little harder to be creative and think of compelling solutions rather than searching for a quick "plop it down and they will come...we hope" fix.

KCN · Post by **KCN** » Mon Mar 31, 2003 4:25 pm

mean wrote:In my fancy dreamworld, I imagine an entire "tourist strip" of 1930s-style clubs and bars and restaurants and entertainment, although that might be even better in the jazz district. Ah well.

I LOVE the idea of a "main drag" downtown to really get to ball rolling. Something where nightlife is really concentrated. Like 6th street in Austin. And not just your typical go out and get wasted kind of bar, but something with more "culture" like a jazz club, piano bar or comedy club. Main or Grand could be good streets for something of this nature, and toward the south end of downtown away from most residential areas. Hell, just move comedy sportz down in that area and out of the ghetto, along with a couple of other bars and we'll be on our way.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Tue Apr 01, 2003 3:39 pm

As much as I'm not a fan of it, many people feel that KC is missing that touristy area that visitors want. The Plaza is kind of like this but I'd like it to get away from that and come back to more of what it used to be....upper class dining and shopping....not the Gap and Cheesecake factory.

For this reason, I think starting off this "solo' district with a BPS would work well. It would be a unique destination attraction that would bring other stores with it. Now make it a 2-3 story version of BPS, not a sprawling mess. It would fit perfect here because it's close to convention hotels and Bartle....and really tie together the west side to the east side where the arena will probably go.

A believe this will spring another "late night district" that will be more of a main stream, "West End" type area (Dallas reference) while still having a "Deep Ellum" type bar district in Westport....many won't go to Westport because they think it's too seedy. the Plaza wants to get rid of anything that might be a bar, so a downtown bar district would work well....it would be more "visitor friendly" with dualing piano bars and things like Gameworks.

Now I know that doesn't excite many urban dwellers but there will still be plenty urban core that has the unique feel and will keep the mass retailers in a concentrated area and maybe out of the Plaza (although nobody wants retail downtown at the expense of the plaza)....that way you know where to avoid as a resident instead of these retailers invading every area.

It's a tough balancing act...while I don't really want this type of development, I see the need for it for the attraction of the common suburbanite and the common conventioneer. I'm more rambling because I can't put my finger on this subject.....

so in closing, give me a BPS with a small footprint and I'm for it.

JBinKC · Post by **JBinKC** » Wed Apr 02, 2003 1:00 am

Here's an email I sent the mayor's office a couple weeks back when this BPS news broke...my stomach nearly dropped when I read they were considering this downtown...what a bad move. I think it may sum up the same thing you're saying mean.

Dear Mayor Kay Barnes,

I appreciate your efforts to bring life and excitement back downtown. I support your long term goals and focus, and am planning on voting for you next time around. However, I disagree with the possibility of placing a Bass Pro Shop anywhere downtown. For one, this would only confirm that we are in competition with KCK and Omaha, which I like to believe we are not. I'd prefer to compete with Dallas and Denver. Furthermore, the "outdoorsman's paradise" is best left for the likes of the Bannister or Blue Ridge Mall. Our goals, as I see them, are greater than the cookie cutter box stores that are sprouting up all over the suburbs. Our precious and limited space downtown can and should be used for much more original, unique, and interesting ventures. Eating up the kind of space a Bass Pro Shop would require just doesn't fit into the neighborhood feel you have worked so hard to accomplish. I also don't believe it fits the character of downtown KC living, even when an arena and the SoLo district are added to the mix. I only hope that you and the city council aren't convinced by the $$$ signs next to this kind of development. I'm sure this prospect can be persuading, but I truly believe once your vision grows the perfect opportunities will come knocking on our door. I'm all for an entertainment district downtown and can't wait for it to become a reality, but please consider all the negative effects of a Bass Pro in the middle of our history and identity. Thank you.

KCgridlock · Post by **KCgridlock** » Wed Apr 02, 2003 2:17 am

I see where everybody is coming from on this, but I just don't know. I can see the positives and negatives to this and the positives still outweigh the negatives. It really depends on how it is designed and incorporated into the fabric of downtown. I think the project could be a disaster and it could be a blessing.

I will never give up on the dream of a downtown baseball stadium and that location would be perfect. For as many tax breaks that the city will give to build that entertainment district that might either flop or be a plastic looking strip mall in the heart of downtown, they could build a stadium and the retail would follow naturally.

I don't see why we are not putting a total package together with a baseball stadium, arena, and the arts center, everything else would follow.

But...I just have little faith in that ever happening and am to the point where anything that will replace kemper and our discracefull south downtown area.

KC is shooting for a bare arena, minor league sports and is not taking care of one of it's most important assets, the Royals.

We could fix a lot of problems in one swoop if people would just get agressive and go for more than what will get us by. But people might have to shell out a few extra bucks to have that type of city and I think most would just assume duplicate the KCK "tourism district" or redneckville downtown.

OK, I'm getting negative. I am really trying to stay possitive about KC's downtown. I just don't know.

KCN · Post by **KCN** » Thu Apr 03, 2003 11:28 am

Posted on Thu, Apr. 03, 2003

More developers angling for Bass Pro Shops
By KEVIN COLLISON
The Kansas City Star

Add more anglers to the Bass Pro Shops fishing party.

Two more developers have surfaced with proposals in eastern Jackson County for the sporting goods company. One developer is offering a site near the Truman Sports Complex, and another is offering property at Interstates 70 and 470.

They join at least three other area development proposals being cast to the Springfield-based retail leviathan: downtown Kansas City, the Blue Ridge Mall, and 119th Street and Renner Road in Olathe.

"We're looking at all options because we're very excited and hopeful to be in the Kansas City area," Bass Pro spokesman Larry Whitely said Wednesday. "All options are still open. No deals have been made, no contracts signed."

In some ways, the Truman Sports Complex site may be the most intriguing, not only for its visibility near a major destination, but also because it raises the possibility of creating a development synergy similar to that at Kansas Speedway.

The property near Kansas Speedway at I-70 and Interstate 435 on the west side of the metro area has attracted $500 million in development since the NASCAR track opened two years ago.

The 23 acres near the Truman Sports Complex southeast of I-70 and I-435 is owned by Jackson County. The Jackson County Legislature has granted Resolute Development Corp. LLC a one-year exclusive development agreement for the site.

The county also owns additional property near the stadiums, land that if developed could provide new tax revenues to support improvements at the stadiums. In theory, at least, such revenue streams might shrink any future bistate sales tax proposal for sports facilities.

Resolute Development involves some prominent local businesspeople: attorney Arthur E. Fillmore II, August L. Huber III, John Capito, Joseph E. Werner and William Edwin Clarkson Jr.

Their attorney is Jack Craft, who said he's gone fishing -- literally and figuratively -- with Bass Pro owner John L. Morris.

"We've had a lot of meetings with them," Craft said Wednesday. "I think it's an extraordinary opportunity."

Craft declined further comment.

Bass Pro became interested in the stadium location shortly after a deal to bring the firm to Bannister Mall collapsed last year, a development source said. The company likes it because of the high volume of tourist traffic on I-70.

A few miles farther east, St. Louis developer Steve Ehrhart would like to land Bass Pro Shops at his Eastland development southeast of the junction of I-70 and I-470.

"The city of Independence and I have worked together to plan and present to Bass Pro a wonderful site," Ehrhart said.

Andi Udris, president of the Kansas City Economic Development Corp., is working with the Cordish Co., a Baltimore-based developer, to encourage Bass Pro to be the anchor of a downtown entertainment district.

Udris said many of the development incentives the city would like to use to attract Bass Pro would not be available for the property near the Truman Sports Complex.

"We'll work with Bass Pro one way or another," Udris said. "We want to keep them in Kansas City."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To reach Kevin Collison, development reporter, call (816) 234-4289 or send e-mail to kcollison@kcstar.com.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Thu Apr 03, 2003 11:58 am

I like the Truman Sports Complex idea.....I still am liking the downtown idea...I like the idea of incorporating a water feature into the linear park.

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Thu Apr 03, 2003 2:37 pm

I realize that the multilevel, linear store concept is an attractive one for downtown, but I've never once heard this concept remotely mentioned for the KC store. In fact, in all the info given by Barnes and in the paper, never once was it mentioned how this store would integrate with the existing architecture and surroundings. This makes it clear that it's not much of a concern as of right now. If Bass Pro intends on building a typical, suburban style store in the middle of a "big city's" urban district (which is the only info we can conclude)...that's a disaster waiting to happen. Like it or not, but an urban environment doesn't lend well to RVs and fishing boats. As tacky as Virgin and Hard Rock are, an oversized Bass Pro takes tackiness to a whole new level. Maybe we should reopen the Empire and have daily showings of "Deliverance." Or stage a production of "L'il Abner" at the Lyric. Better yet, let's build a 40-story log cabin condo in the new solo district.

KCgridlock · Post by **KCgridlock** » Thu Apr 03, 2003 2:55 pm

trailerkid wrote:Better yet, let's build a 40-story log cabin condo in the new solo district.

Now that's an idea!

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:59 pm

If it's going to be a "cabelas" type place, I'm against it.

40 story log cabin condo....I'm for it.

Post by **dangerboy** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 7:51 am

While I think it would be great to have Bass Pro downtown, this Star editorial makes a pretty good case for putting it at the Truman Sports Complex...

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascit ... 575239.htm

tat2kc · Post by **tat2kc** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 8:07 am

it was a good article for sure. Laid out the problems related to the downtown location. Bass Pro downtown has good potential, but it really really needs to be done right, and designed for an urban setting. Costco and Home Depot could have been designed for an urban setting, but instead they just plopped an suburban store into an urban setting. The city absolutely should demand that whatever goes in to the tourism district has the correct feel for the setting. It COULD be BPS, if done right. Or something else, as long as its done well.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 8:13 am

Yeah I like the idea of a bigger project by the stadiums but at the same time, what will happen to the 30 year old stadiums? I know almost everybody wants a baseball stadium downtown....I'd rather keep Arrowhead (or a new version) where it's at....so are we trying to build up an area that might become obsolete?

Post by **mean** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 1:16 pm

Arrowhead is in a good spot. I'd like to see the whole sports complex blown up and replaced by a new dome-style Arrowhead with heat and many more seats. I can't think of a better place for a shiny new BPS than next to a shiny new football stadium, and that area (Blue Ridge / US 40) is kind of starting to decay and could really use the boost.

Then, of course, the Royals would get a new stadium too, downtown being the obvious choice.

Now if only we had the money...

Post by **dangerboy** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 7:16 am

Another prolem with putting this thing Downtown is that it will probably generate a lot of ill will towards Downtown from the people in southeastern Kansas City who are really pissed off that the Bannister Mall deal fell through.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascit ... 597114.htm