OFFICIAL: Penn Valley Park (Ideas+redeveloment)

[KCExile]

I think there's simply not enough to do in PVP at this point.  Imagine a restaurant on the deck of the Liberty Memorial.  The kitchen could be housed below the deck (in part of the museum) and the "restaurant" would be simply tables and umbrellas that could be stowed out of site when the cafe is closed and for special events.  Imagine a lunch in the sun or a summer dinner with that view and the cool breeze!  I also like the ideas of a botanical garden or a Japanese garden.  Little quirks that have to be discovered are some of the best features of good urban parks.  Philadelphia's Fairmount Park (also cut off from the community by highways, large streets and topography) hosts among many other things a Japanese house, a carousel, a children's museum, stables and trails for urban cowboys, and a number of restaurants.  Central Park has the Fairytale castle (KC Parks Department has abandoned "castles" all over the city), Tavern on the Green and other gathering places.  There is so much to do in these parks, but these activities don't they don't have to be housed in visually intrusive buildings... although a nice botanical garden or museum building can provide an elegant addition to an urban park.  The only people gathering in PVP today are the drug dealers by the Scout and the parkers (read: Prostitution) at the end of the Liberty Memorial Drive.  Anonymity allows these activities to thrive.  What the park needs is attractions that attract all segments of the population: a skate park for teenagers, a restaurant for business lunchers, well-lit jogging trails for downtown residents, etc., etc., etc.,

I, for one, am not opposed to well-executed residential construction in PVP.  Sometimes a city park CAN be too big and needs to trim some fat, i.e., give a few acres over to residential development that will provide regular park users and not disturb the peace of the park.  If we do add residential units on the streets surrounding the park, we must tame the traffic on 31st, Main, SW TFWY (no one likes to be forced to use a pedestrian overpass), etc.  The best crosswalk into the park is at the fountain in front of Union Station.  Unfortunately, there is no sidewalk once you reach the Union Station side of Pershing.  We need calm streets that encourage neighboring residents to cross into the park, a la Loose Park.  You never see anyone crossing into Mill Creek Park from St. Luke's because the traffic is fast and constant there.

Finally, the original vision for the Liberty Memorial showed magnificent civic buildings lining the drive.  I think the proposal recommended a Kansas City art museum be placed there before William Rockhill Nelson donated his property for the Nelson-Atkins.  Now we seem to have missed another opportunity to fulfill this original vision.  The Federal Reserve facility, rather than being an anonymous office tower, could have been an important civic building lining the memorial drive.  (Security and a desire for meagre modernist architecture ruined that possibility).  Imagine if the Nelson and other various museums around the city had been built here.  Just think of the vitality that we would have if PVP were a must-see for every out-of-towner and class field trip.  Maybe this idea isn't completely dead, but the Fed would have been a great way to get back on track.

[trailerkid]

Just wondering...besides Liberty Memorial and the new dog park...what is Penn Valley used for?

To me, it looks like it might as well be a forest with yellow tape around it. The new Fed will only make it even more of a literal wasteland. What a great opportunity to build up an awesome, natural green space for the entire metro...Oh Well.

[dangerboy]

Just wondering...besides Liberty Memorial and the new dog park...what is Penn Valley used for?

To me, it looks like it might as well be a forest with yellow tape around it. The new Fed will only make it even more of a literal wasteland. What a great opportunity to build up an awesome, natural green space for the entire metro...Oh Well.

Lots of joggers and walkers use it all day, both Downtown and Crown Center workers and Union Hill residents..  The Liberty Memorial is adding a new museum that will bring in more people.  One Park Place will add a few hundred residents.  The new skate park near the Scout statue will add a LOT of activity.

I know the dog park might not seem like a lot, but it already has more users than most of the city's community centers!

[shinatoo]

I think there's simply not enough to do in PVP at this point.  Imagine a restaurant on the deck of the Liberty Memorial.  The kitchen could be housed below the deck (in part of the museum) and the "restaurant" would be simply tables and umbrellas that could be stowed out of site when the cafe is closed and for special events.  Imagine a lunch in the sun or a summer dinner with that view and the cool breeze! 

How about some other creative ways to use our nations memorials to our fallen solders?

1. Build a stage on top of the Vietnam Vets memorial in DC. Wall is the right height to keep the crowd back from the stage and slick surface would be easy to clean the vomit and beer off of.

2. The Tomb of the Unknown Soldier Starbucks. It sure is a long walk out there and it sure would be nice to sit on a deck chair with a cold frapichino as you watch the changing of the guard.

3. SEA WORLD PEARL HARBOR: Watch as Shamoo jumps over the sunken turret of the USS Arizona.

4. Six Flags Gettiesburg. That’s is a heck of a big field to just leave empty.

[Marreekarr]

What the park needs is attractions that attract all segments of the population: a skate park for teenagers, a restaurant for business lunchers, well-lit jogging trails for downtown residents, etc., etc., etc.,

That dog run is about the best idea anyone has had in eons for the Park.  I don't own a dog, but I sure notice the traffic that the dog run has brought in.  The recently installed lights on the jogging trails have really added to the nightime allure of the place.

My beef in particular has been about the Liberty Memorial.  Just yesterday I was sitting in the grass near the tower when the security guy came over and told me to go away from the memorial because it was unsightly to have someone just hanging out by the tower and museums.  Imagine that!  1 O'clock in the afternoon and you can't just sit down near the memorial.

And a few weeks ago I was up at the tower about 8 O'clock in the evening looking at the downtown skyline and admiring the city lights coming on.  Once again, security guy comes out telling me to go away because they don't want anyone there 'after hours.'

My suggestion is to allow all members of the 'human' and 'canine' species access to the whole park and give the security  guards something else to do besides shooing perfectly law abiding people away.

[trailerkid]

What do people think about building a water garden in the front lawn of Liberty Memorial? A massive outdoor interactive water garden that would act as a tourist attraction helping tie Crown Center, Penn Valley and Union Station into one walkable destination would give a great boost to the area. In water garden, I am meaning something a massive park space with interactive water features one after another. Something that would produce "oohs" and "ahhs" as well as tie into the fountain image in KCMO. It must be developed with the thought in mind of creating a marquee KCMO destination that is a "must visit" for any tourist in town.

[moderne]

    The biggest problem with making water features a marquee attraction is our winter climate.  I always hate the 5 months of the years when the fountains are off and all we have to look at is dry plumbing.  Heated water features are very costly when it comes to electrical bills.  How about a water feature in the area Michael proposes that also uses lighting effects (led, neon, argon?) that could play along with the water, and without it in the winter to keep this feature kinetic and exciting.  I think maybe Cordish has a good idea with their water feature/bonfire in winter concept.

[bahua]

I love Pittsburgh's downtown.

[kc-vino]

That dog run is about the best idea anyone has had in eons for the Park.  I don't own a dog, but I sure notice the traffic that the dog run has brought in.  The recently installed lights on the jogging trails have really added to the nightime allure of the place.

My beef in particular has been about the Liberty Memorial.  Just yesterday I was sitting in the grass near the tower when the security guy came over and told me to go away from the memorial because it was unsightly to have someone just hanging out by the tower and museums.  Imagine that!  1 O'clock in the afternoon and you can't just sit down near the memorial.

And a few weeks ago I was up at the tower about 8 O'clock in the evening looking at the downtown skyline and admiring the city lights coming on.  Once again, security guy comes out telling me to go away because they don't want anyone there 'after hours.'

My suggestion is to allow all members of the 'human' and 'canine' species access to the whole park and give the security  guards something else to do besides shooing perfectly law abiding people away.

These thoughts are so right on.  I always walk there and I was so PISSED off to have so lame ass security officer tell me to leave the park when I was admiring the view at around 6:30 in the evening.  I mean come on, somebody who comes from the Rivermarket via the MAX bus to get off and finish a one-two hour walk through the urban core and I'm told to get off the property.  It's this kind of up-tight, crew-cut police mentality of law & order existing in KC that unfortunately takes priority before community and urban living.  In Europe you would never be kicked out of park at 6:30, that would be an civic insult, especially to somebody who lives in the area.

More comments.....the actual space of Liberty Memorial is magnificent.  I took my college buddy up there right after he returned from a year abroad in Europe and he loudly proclaimed that this space reminded him of Athens in terms of how far you could see, the dip down to the next level below, the extensive view to the west, etc.  Obviously, the contruction of the FED building, crown center, the silos of southwest blvd don't quite compare to The Temple of Nike, the Pantheon, and others. 

What ever happened to the desire to close the broadway entrance to the highway and forcing them to either go the Main street route or over to southwest traffic way.  I see KC's problems of flow really caused by these unnatural divisions between space.  It tends to be caused by KC's on going "selling out" to the car.  The downtown area/loop allows people coming into the city from any direction, on any highway to never even think twice about getting off onto side roads.  The areas where they actually may see an art gallery, a coffee shop, a leasing office for a loft, a cute boutique, etc.   

[LenexatoKCMO]

If they have enough police/security manpower to patrol and kick everybody out after 6:30, how do they not have enough manpower to just keep it open and patrol against the negative activities?  I wouldn't think there would be much of a difference manpower wise and clearly having law abiding folks out and about is a security benefit. 

[kc-vino]

It is the mentality in KC that is somewhat to blame for this justification.  We have seen this issues in other forms.  Remember the law a couples years back that attempted to banish all liquor sales that took place on outdoor patios.  Basically, making it illegal to serve alcoholic drinks to patrons at the street level.  It was fought strongly and thank god the government didn't win.  This would have made places like the Cup and Saucer criminals for having customers drink on the street.  My personal opinion thinks that allowing people to meet, drink, and relax at the street level is a form of community.  It makes the neighborhood feel more engaged and provides a feeling of safety.  When winter comes KC's streets naturally have a shadier tone to them...why? because people are not out as much.  But lets not support legislation that prohibits the natural elements of urban living. 

I often wonder if KC is just 30-40 years totally removed from urban thinking.  In New York their is no other way to think than a public square is a place to meet.  Where the hell else do you play soccer.  If your lucky you can get in a little stick ball going in the alley way.  LA, Phoenix and other car crazy "new" cities are also foreign to this thinking to a certain extent because of the love of cars and private space.  Since KC is and has been rather suburban for the wide majority of the last 100 years we are more in the mentality that public spaces are off limits at night.  We have not had the demand for urban spaces in the last 30 years, that isn't outside of the business traffic on weekdays.  The Plaza and parts of Westport have thankfully held onto these desires for the most part.

[dangerboy]

It is the mentality in KC that is somewhat to blame for this justification. 

I don't think so.  The strict loitering policy is a direct result of the memorial's reputation for cruising and public sex, which they are trying very hard to eliminate.  They didn't want to spend millions renovating the thing only to have people scared away at the prospect of seing pantsless men runing around the grounds.

The problem itself is reduced, but the perception lingers.  More park users and police stings seem to have driven most of that activity to Shawnee Mission and other parks.  Once the BMA is finished the remaining activity around the Scout statue should also decrease dramatically.

[LenexatoKCMO]

I would think that some surveilance cameras would do wonders towards eliminating any remaining public sex problems.  I can't imagine many of the folks cruising for an anonymous hook-up would be very happy at the notion of getting cought on film.  Kind of a variation on the old John-TV.  Couldn't help but make the place feel safer for law abiding folks walking around either. 

[moderne]

 
    Both the WDAF and KCMO city cams could focus on any hanky panky in the park with pornographic clarity!

[paisstat]

I seem to be along here, but I don't see why this is an issue at all.  Efforts and money could be used elsewhere in this city.

[beautyfromashes]

I seem to be along here, but I don't see why this is an issue at all.  Efforts and money could be used elsewhere in this city.

No, this is EXACTLY where the city should be spending its money.  This gem of a park that is supposed to be available to all people in the city to enjoy is being stolen.  It is essentially branded useless by large parts of the community because people are afraid of the crime aspects of activity in the park and the idea of not wanting children to be confronted with this type of crass disregard for others. It also affected the city financially because people don't want to look out the window of a condo they spent $500K to buy and see two naked guys, one with his bone in the other guys ass.  My hope is that with the 1KCP and Federal Reserve development these lowlifes will be removed.  Do whatever it takes.  Arrest them.  Shame them.  It's a blackeye on the city and people will not begin to move back to the city in force with families until it is determined to be safe, clean and provide a place for retreat.

[OpenRoad]

Outstanding post Beauty. 

[paisstat]

Yes the park could be a gem of a park, and it does indeed need to be redeveloped.  Yes, much of the activity is illegal and many people don't want to see the activity, however this is a part of an urban environment, which makes a city different from the sick bourgeois/middle class value system of suburban wastelands.  That said, If those individuals buying a $500k condo want a suburban lifestyle, maybe they should locate to the suburbs.  Pushing illicit and perceived immoral behavior to the sidelines is not the solution.  Should all activity considered deviant be pushed out of sight?  And who decided which behavior is deviant?  If people want a sterile/fake environment, maybe they should stay away.  I don't see it healthy or helpful and in fact consider it very dangerous to demonize these segments of society.  Where does the demonizing end?  I suppose it depends on ones political and moral orientation, however this is a dangerous precedent to begin.  I'm sure I'll take lots of flak for this post, but bring it on.

[dangerboy]

Paisstat, this is not about morality or deviance.  Public sex is illegal, whatever genders are involved.  Pushing this activity out of the park is just enforcing existing laws that most reasonable people have agreed to legislate.  If you disgree and are in favor legalizing public sex, that's a debate for another forum.

[beautyfromashes]

I get so tired of the whole 'well, that's what you get with an urban environment' argument.  Public sex, prostitution, open drug use, dog crap on the sidewalk, unkept filth, etc. are NOT what living in an urban community is all about.  Urban living is being in close enough proximatey that you develop a sense of community.  This means you care enough about the person close to you that you don't enfringe on their rights to enjoy the common spaces.  This means you have enough class to find somewhere to have sex without someone else having to see it.  An urban community can be safe, clean and dense enough for everyone to enjoy the space together.