KCRag Forum

If we end building something closer to what is on Main street eg. low levels of prioritization and limited capacity then I definitely prefer 31st. Linwood I think presents more space and option for us to up the game to a more serious, higher capacity route. Easier for me to see bigger platforms, longer train sets, and dedicated ROW center running on Linwood than 31st.

FlippantCitizen wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:49 am If we end building something closer to what is on Main street eg. low levels of prioritization and limited capacity then I definitely prefer 31st. Linwood I think presents more space and option for us to up the game to a more serious, higher capacity route. Easier for me to see bigger platforms, longer train sets, and dedicated ROW center running on Linwood than 31st.

Yeah, it would depend on what they plan to build. I don't really see KC ever building a full blown LRT system and it probably doesn't need to at this point. If you don't, then they need to stop even discussing extending it past the east side to the stadiums. Especially using the stupid routes they keep coming up with.

If they want to run to the stadiums and into the Jackson Count suburbs, then the rail needs it's own new infrastructure to get it across the blue river industrial valley with an actual straight direct rout and a stop that is actually close to the stadium(s).

I still say forget trying to make the streetcar regional and build up an urban streetcar system. Build a regional rail line when you are ready to actually build a full blown LRT line. Something that would run independently from the streetcars to union station or something and feed into the urban streetcar system. You could even do this with a stadium route since part main south of Union Station will be built to nearly LRT standards.

I also really like the idea of running the E/W line partially down Broadway.

Kids are already trying to make Leeds better on their own but nope, shouldn't do it because it's already dead, woof.

For the hundredth time... there's plenty of population on the way to the stadiums. If the proposal stopped at the Blue River (where density drops off a cliff) you'd all be complaining that it doesn't go far enough.

DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:00 pm For the hundredth time... there's plenty of population on the way to the stadiums. If the proposal stopped at the Blue River (where density drops off a cliff) you'd all be complaining that it doesn't go far enough.

I just hope this isn't bus only

I think a big point of interest we need to consider if getting MCC connected on the route- which they can do close enough with Broadway. Then you have two schools on streetcar at that point.

normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:04 pm

DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:00 pm For the hundredth time... there's plenty of population on the way to the stadiums. If the proposal stopped at the Blue River (where density drops off a cliff) you'd all be complaining that it doesn't go far enough.

I just hope this isn't bus only

That all depends on the funding situation. You can't build it -- BRT or streetcar -- with existing revenues. A new source must be found and the downtown/midtown method (TDD sales + assessments) won't generate enough on its own.

R E G I O N A L.
F U N D I N G.

DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:15 pm

normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:04 pm

DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:00 pm For the hundredth time... there's plenty of population on the way to the stadiums. If the proposal stopped at the Blue River (where density drops off a cliff) you'd all be complaining that it doesn't go far enough.

I just hope this isn't bus only

That all depends on the funding situation. You can't build it -- BRT or streetcar -- with existing revenues. A new source must be found and the downtown/midtown method (TDD sales + assessments) won't generate enough on its own.

R E G I O N A L.
F U N D I N G.

Fully understand but I can't vote for rail if it isnt on the ballot.

DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:00 pm For the hundredth time... there's plenty of population on the way to the stadiums. If the proposal stopped at the Blue River (where density drops off a cliff) you'd all be complaining that it doesn't go far enough.

Actually the point past the Blue River is my biggest concern. I'm 100% supportive of a streetcar line to Van Brunt servicing East Side neighborhoods. It's the point where we end up running a relatively low capacity tram past that point to the stadiums at relatively large expense that concerns me. If the new line takes a similar form to the Main street line then I'm very skeptical of the utility of going all the way to TSC while if the purpose is a local route to the East Side then frankly that changes the entire calculus. What makes going to the stadiums worthwhile is as a beachhead to a more comprehensive, higher capacity system into other parts of Jackson County. That proposition is going to require a much more robust level of service more akin to LRT than a mixed traffic tram. And that is probably incompatible with the most logical alignment for the western part of the study area on 39th Street. Dave, genuinely interested in your opinion on what the best alignments and modes are, if you are at liberty to share.

Edit: RE your last comment... assuming some type of county wide, citywide, or multi county regional vote could deliver on funding needs.

normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:19 pm

DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:15 pm

normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:04 pm

I just hope this isn't bus only

That all depends on the funding situation. You can't build it -- BRT or streetcar -- with existing revenues. A new source must be found and the downtown/midtown method (TDD sales + assessments) won't generate enough on its own.

R E G I O N A L.
F U N D I N G.

Fully understand but I can't vote for rail if it isnt on the ballot.

It will be. Just a matter of when. Take it from the person who was involved in the only two successful rail votes in KC history.

DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:15 pm R E G I O N A L.
F U N D I N G.

No way I'm voting for regional funding. Since I'm already in the streetcar district my tax is already paying for the transportation that I need. If the streetcar tax isn't folded into the regional funding model, there's absolutely zero reason for me to vote for it.

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:56 pm

DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:15 pm R E G I O N A L.
F U N D I N G.

No way I'm voting for regional funding. Since I'm already in the streetcar district my tax is already paying for the transportation that I need. If the streetcar tax isn't folded into the regional funding model, there's absolutely zero reason for me to vote for it.

The return on the original investment only increased when you can take it further. I tend to think its worth if it the extension will get used (urban core) but if its the suburbs I can really start to see your POV

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:56 pm

DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:15 pm R E G I O N A L.
F U N D I N G.

No way I'm voting for regional funding. Since I'm already in the streetcar district my tax is already paying for the transportation that I need. If the streetcar tax isn't folded into the regional funding model, there's absolutely zero reason for me to vote for it.

Isn’t that the prerequisite for regional funding?

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:05 am Isn’t that the prerequisite for regional funding?

Nope. They’re planning on taxing me for the streetcar AND the regional funding. Separate.

normalthings wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 12:09 am The return on the original investment only increased when you can take it further. I tend to think its worth if it the extension will get used (urban core) but if its the suburbs I can really start to see your POV

To me, it’s borderline insulting. The core (and not high net worth neighbors either) voted to tax themselves for transportation and let anyone ride it. But, when suburbanites want to connect to it, I have to pay for that too?! Double?

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:02 am

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:05 am Isn’t that the prerequisite for regional funding?

Nope. They’re planning on taxing me for the streetcar AND the regional funding. Separate.

I’d inquire further on that. From what I understood, if regional funding is a go, then TDD essentially dissolves. Tom would have an answer on that I’d imagine, but on the Rag I’m sure Dave would know

^ already been answered.

Damn, I'd hate to put off the most pro transit area in a potential vote by double taxing them. Seems absurd and like a very risky way to proceed. I'm sure no decisions are final so I hope that situation would be rectified. Who was your source that the current TDD would end up being double taxed in a regional funding scenario?

I have a hard time believing they think they can layer another sales tax on top of the TOD sales tax. Recipe for failure.

They will likely keep the property tax increase, as they should, since properties in the TOD will retain their increased value.

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:04 am ^ already been answered.

Considering no language has been proposed, you are absolutely making this up. Please point me to exactly what language has been released and which election it will be going on for regional transit funding.