KCRag Forum

Thanks for the photos.

I had the "carbonara" dish Monday, it was tasty and I'd order it again. Our waitress was shakey and shy and had some social anxiety. I was a little concerned she was going to drop a pitcher of water on our lap. She didn't, thankfully. Cool space, I like what they did with it. Excited to go for dinner.

Not picking on that situation but it reminds me...

KC has a first world problem with decent servers overall, not all restaurants but too many. Many cities have server problems actually but having traveled everywhere, KC seems to be in bottom half. We need a place that does some basic service training with certifications. Local restaurants that have invested a lot can't afford poor service that could prevent someone coming back. But restaurants are reluctant to train because it's a high turnover industry. If KC had a certification place, restaurants with high $ investments can seek them out.

The big sit-down 'fern' chains have lowered the bar though. They don't train servers for 'dining' patrons, who want a drink or two before being presented a menu, who don't want entree pushed on them before completing salad. The big chains want to turnover tables and don't train servers for dining or being aware of those who like to 'slow dine'. We often have to explain we plan to 'slow dine' and what that means... some servers at upper end local places get it but most don't. /mini-rant

I see where you're coming from, but as someone who worked at a big chain on the Plaza, I can attest that the issue lies with the hiring employee. Any decent restaurant or chain will train the hell out of someone before allowing them on the floor - the server should know the menu inside and out, but personable with the guests.

I think Brown & Loe was probably needing to get opened ASAP to get some money flowing. It's typical for high server turnover right when a place opens and the worst servers won't last.

kcjak wrote:but personable with the guests.

I've noticed that as KC thing too. Being personable is more important than competent, consistent presence. I personally find chit chatty or perky servers annoying but that seems to be promoted here. And servers seem to seek tips by being personable than keeping up with the table. I used to be a server BTW in college, trained for slow dining, how to properly serve/pickup dishes, being aware of what the patron is expecting, etc. It's not taught as often anymore, though is much more common on the coasts/bigger cities.

http://dobbs.lostsoulsgenealogy.com/gli ... vefood.htm

earthling wrote:Not picking on that situation but it reminds me...

KC has a first world problem with decent servers overall, not all restaurants but too many. Many cities have server problems actually but having traveled everywhere, KC seems to be in bottom half. We need a place that does some basic service training with certifications. Local restaurants that have invested a lot can't afford poor service that could prevent someone coming back. But restaurants are reluctant to train because it's a high turnover industry. If KC had a certification place, restaurants with high $ investments can seek them out.

The big sit-down 'fern' chains have lowered the bar though. They don't train servers for 'dining' patrons, who want a drink or two before being presented a menu, who don't want entree pushed on them before completing salad. The big chains want to turnover tables and don't train servers for dining or being aware of those who like to 'slow dine'. We often have to explain we plan to 'slow dine' and what that means... some servers at upper end local places get it but most don't. /mini-rant

I'll vouch for this. It takes all or our effort not to be pushed along and order the next course, because if you order it, it will come and you'll be out of there in 30 minutes.

earthling wrote:Not picking on that situation but it reminds me...

KC has a first world problem with decent servers overall, not all restaurants but too many. Many cities have server problems actually but having traveled everywhere, KC seems to be in bottom half. We need a place that does some basic service training with certifications. Local restaurants that have invested a lot can't afford poor service that could prevent someone coming back. But restaurants are reluctant to train because it's a high turnover industry. If KC had a certification place, restaurants with high $ investments can seek them out.

The big sit-down 'fern' chains have lowered the bar though. They don't train servers for 'dining' patrons, who want a drink or two before being presented a menu, who don't want entree pushed on them before completing salad. The big chains want to turnover tables and don't train servers for dining or being aware of those who like to 'slow dine'. We often have to explain we plan to 'slow dine' and what that means... some servers at upper end local places get it but most don't. /mini-rant

I've spent some time waiting tables back in the day. It's harder to make a living in KC as a full time server. The weekends can be great, but regardless of where you are, the weekdays are basically hit & miss - leaning towards complete shit. So, there just aren't a ton of professional servers these days. Capital Grille still does a great job - but it seems like even the "finer" places in town (Michael Smith's, Bluestem, etc.) have casual atmosphere and server cultures.

But you're right regarding service in general. I know Grand Street used to have a huge training program and testing process that was pretty rigorous, but no one really trains for fine dining service any longer. Cadences and proper serving techniques are rarely taught. Simply serving from the guest's left and clearing from the right - or not eating/drinking in front of guests - are rarities these days.

I blame Millennials.

However above avg service is still more common in larger cities, and not just dining places. It won't improve unless local indie restaurant owners set expectations for it as the chains are all about moving tables. Is there a local restaurant association for indie restaurants? That would probably be a good start, and offer service training that is shared between all of them instead of just a few training here and there (and yeah, is clear that Grand St. trains).

earthling wrote:However above avg service is still more common in larger cities, and not just dining places. It won't improve unless local indie restaurant owners set expectations for it as the chains are all about moving tables. Is there a local restaurant association for indie restaurants? That would probably be a good start, and offer service training that is shared between all of them instead of just a few training here and there.

Sounds like Communism to me. &

There's nothing wrong with your idea, but it's not that hard to train servers correctly. Restaurant owners are just too lazy to do so. Or don't know any better themselves. I don't think this is a problem that requires an entire organization to solve. Just some awareness and recognition that they could be doing better.

i've had great, average, and shitty service at good restaurants in much larger cities. i've had all three in KC as well. at better restos in KC, the server nearly always asks about the sequence and pacing of courses. i'm all for better training or whatever, but i also put a lot more on the diner as well - if you're someone who really puts a lot of stock into pacing, say so upfront and set the expectation. if the resto screws it up, then mention it.

WSPanic wrote:

earthling wrote:However above avg service is still more common in larger cities, and not just dining places. It won't improve unless local indie restaurant owners set expectations for it as the chains are all about moving tables. Is there a local restaurant association for indie restaurants? That would probably be a good start, and offer service training that is shared between all of them instead of just a few training here and there.

Sounds like Communism to me. &

There's nothing wrong with your idea, but it's not that hard to train servers correctly. Restaurant owners are just too lazy to do so. Or don't know any better themselves. I don't think this is a problem that requires an entire organization to solve. Just some awareness and recognition that they could be doing better.

Yeah maybe so, even a list to go over with the basics for new hires might at least be enough to improve. We do mention we plan to 'slow dine' when up for that. For above avg indie restaurants, the server should at least know what that means.

However KC does seem to have a problem with servers just paying enough attention to the table moreso than what I've seen on avg in other cities, including very casual places. Yeah yeah, it's a first world problem but nevertheless...

i really dont think KC servers are uniquely undisciplined or untrained. moreso it's our hometown and we dine out far more frequently here, so more likely to run into duds. we've had some very indifferent or even bad severs at restos in SF, wine country, NY, chicago, wherever - and i think you run into it even more if you live in those places full-time. also, it might be hard to be a full-time server in KC, but imagine being so in a city where a studio apartment is 2,000/mo and you have to live 45 min away from your job. unless you're a true pro, working at a michelin star type joint, you're probably hustling a couple jobs and may not always be on your game. my wife was a server for many years, so we're pretty chill on servers within reason b/c she "knows how it is." putting up with imperfect pacing might suck as a diner, but imagine being a server and dealing with complete assholes all of the time and depending on said assholes for your livelihood!

That's a good point, we have an unusually high number of restaurants per capita.