Re: Streetcar Opposition
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:05 pm
as a reminder, here is the november 2006 (chastain plan) and november 2008 (official plan) breakdown by ward:
2006
2008
2006
2008
I don't think this is necessarily true.GRID wrote:This is a bummer. Sounds like you guys are not getting a good vibe from the locals outside pro urban development circles like this. Reminds me a lot of the city backed light rail plan that went down in flames. It had plenty of downtown support and most pro transit people felt good about it, but couldn't get the support of the city outside of the loop or crossroads area. I hope people come around and vote yes.
NopeKCPowercat wrote:Does the group that claims responsibility for killing the TDD have a responsibility to offer up a transit plan? Really that question goes for any "anti" group
I ask not having a strong opinion....and by responsibility I obviously mean a social neighborhly responsibility.flyingember wrote:NopeKCPowercat wrote:Does the group that claims responsibility for killing the TDD have a responsibility to offer up a transit plan? Really that question goes for any "anti" group
I said nope because you can be against something and think nothing should be done instead.KCPowercat wrote:I ask not having a strong opinion....and by responsibility I obviously mean a social neighborhly responsibility.flyingember wrote:NopeKCPowercat wrote:Does the group that claims responsibility for killing the TDD have a responsibility to offer up a transit plan? Really that question goes for any "anti" group
to be fair, the east side agreed with themkcjak wrote:The anti folks likely never take transit and therefore don't think anyone should have to pay for something they don't use.
Okay if you name yourself "supporters of modern affordable transit", now do you have a responsibility?flyingember wrote:I said nope because you can be against something and think nothing should be done instead.KCPowercat wrote: I ask not having a strong opinion....and by responsibility I obviously mean a social neighborhly responsibility.
I'd argue few people are legitimately saying what we're doing now works. people for/against one plan or another largely want changes big enough to require some sort of constructive plan to show how their idea would workKCPowercat wrote:Okay if you name yourself "supporters of modern affordable transit", now do you have a responsibility?flyingember wrote:I said nope because you can be against something and think nothing should be done instead.KCPowercat wrote: I ask not having a strong opinion....and by responsibility I obviously mean a social neighborhly responsibility.
Yes. But if you call yourself "affordable modern transit", that could mean anything, including the status quo.KCPowercat wrote:Okay if you name yourself "supporters of modern affordable transit", now do you have a responsibility?flyingember wrote:I said nope because you can be against something and think nothing should be done instead.KCPowercat wrote: I ask not having a strong opinion....and by responsibility I obviously mean a social neighborhly responsibility.
I also do not believe the ordinance will be effective in accomplishing your apparent goal of
stopping all streetcar discussion without an election. For example, the City cannot control the
actions of a transportation development district, which is a separate political subdivision.
For example, the current attempt to expand the streetcar system is brought by 50 people who seek a
new transportation development district. The City cannot stop that process.
Moreover, the Missouri statutes explicitly allow cities to enter into cooperative agreements with
other political subdivisions to build public improvements. Attempts to remove that power
granted by the State are inconsistent with the authority of the State,
and our City Charter. Our ordinances must be consistent with the statutes.
This is not really a fair comparison for our current TDD because of the way it was formed. While it is technically a separate political subdivision, the city (and really, the mayor) control its board makeup. Its board consists of- the mayor, some one the mayor appoints, someone from the Port Authority (who, btw is appointed by the mayor) and someone the Port Authority appoints for a total of 4 board members. This governance reflects the interest of the entities that formed the district...the city and the port authority. Additionally, the city actually owns all of the physical assets and right of ways related to the streetcar, not the TDD and not KCSA.flyingember wrote:The background of the point made by the city lawyer is a TDD is a subdivision of the state. It's not a separate political subdivision inside the city that has special powers. This point is very important and is easily lost. Someone might think the streetcar TDD is controlled by the city.
The example to give is a school district and the vote back when part of the KCSB moved to the Independence district. No city law could control that process because a school district isn't formed by the city or even the county. Like a TDD, a school district can cross all political boundaries except the state line.