Livestrong Sporting Park

[KCPowercat]

I understand the additional jobs don't play the same role in both proposals.  My comments were focused on what those jobs could do for a bannister proposal...instant 'anchor' and legitimacy to the project which could help in lining up retail for an area in great need of it....oh well, the wizards can play in a new facility faster....yeah greenfield development.

[KCPowercat]

If what staub is saying is true, that cerner promised 4k jobs earlier in this game to the bannister development as well, I pull backon my criticism...quick google search didn't find anything like that.

[LenexatoKCMO]

I understand the additional jobs don't play the same role in both proposals.  My comments were focused on what those jobs could do for a bannister proposal...instant 'anchor' and legitimacy to the project which could help in lining up retail for an area in great need of it....

P&L is surrounded by what 100,000 jobs?  Still isn't enough to secure a single block worth of retail leases.  Retail isn't getting filled under the very best of circumstances and Bannister is a long, long ways from "best of circumstances" - with or without 4000 employees.  

[dangerboy]

I don't think Cerner ever promised jobs in the 3 Trails development.  They have promised more at the Marion site, but I thought the jobs promised for 3 Trails was other companies (and assumed to be Stowers).

[beautyfromashes]

The city totally messed this up.  They should have built a new baseball stadium downtown where the 82 games a year would have brought more people to the core and then converted the K into soccer next to a new Arrowhead. 

[kanasalumn]

who give a crap where they play?  they will play in the KC area.  Yes it sucks for the bannister site.  Yes Cerner could have put offices over there.  There must be something behind the scenes that no one knows about.  there already established entertainment/retail district over in KCK which is a big plus.  And they ahve been over there for two seasons, and maybe the fans of the wizards had a survey on what they thought of the before and after game times.  I think at the Dot or DT would be great places for the stadium as entertainment/retail already established.  KS residents has spend money in MO for the past 40-50 years for Royals and Chiefs, maybe it is time for MO residents to spend money for the Wizards and continue for Tbones and races. 

[kanasalumn]

also add the possible speedway casino, the soccer stadium at VW would be better too.  just adds up

[KCMax]

If what staub is saying is true, that cerner promised 4k jobs earlier in this game to the bannister development as well, I pull backon my criticism...quick google search didn't find anything like that.

I remember at one point the developers said they had "something big to announce soon" but never announced it. I wonder if that was it and it fell through.

Moving forward, I wonder if we can get something even better for the Bannister Mall site? Something that better integrates itself with the surrounding area and provides the retail amenities so needed by the residents in that area? Like I mentioned yesterday, I'm dubious that all these "destination developments" are in anyway sustainable, and I'd rather see developments that provide needed grocery stores, clothing retailers and banks to areas that need them rather than big tourist traps that will likely be obsolete a decade from now.

[KCPowercat]

Why couldn't the bannister site be that even with the soccer stadium?

[KCMax]

Why couldn't the bannister site be that even with the soccer stadium?

It could be, but that wasn't the direction they were going with the plans.

[phuqueue]

How is it tearing apart the metro????  They're moving from one site in the metro to the other, granted it happens to be another state, but it's still in the metro KC area.  It's nice to know that Kansas can now pay to subsidize a professional franchise.  The only thing tearing apart this metro is those who continue to fail to see this as ONE KC.  I'm looking at this as a gain no matter where it goes.  Sure I would have loved to have seen Bannister redeveloped instead of being an eyesore for this city, but who knows how long we would have to wait for that entire project to materialize.  Then we'd still have to wait a few more years after that to see if it actually made money.  This project most likely won't fail at VW because they aren't adding in any more retail.  Just boosting what's already out there.

It's tearing apart the metro because it's going from redeveloping one blighted, existing neighborhood to a greenfield out at the nightmare that is VW.  "One KC" doesn't mean people have to be cool with any development going anywhere, it means one state shouldn't poach from the other.  People keep saying that this isn't the Wizards screwing KCMO because they got a better deal -- I have no doubt they got a better deal, nobody is arguing that the Wizards maliciously took a lesser offer just out of spite for KCMO.  But they're fleeing from anchoring a development in a neighborhood that really needs it so that they can build in an empty field next to a hellhole in the middle of nowhere.  Whether it's better for them or not doesn't have any bearing on whether they're screwing over KCMO.  They are absolutely screwing over KCMO.  And they're doing it because the other side of the metro decided to offer them a deal so they could break off the one they already had going.  That's how it's "tearing apart the metro."  How is it that "One KC" is always a justification for things from MO moving to KS instead of a defense against KS poaching from MO?  I do hope the Wizards, Cerner, and any other metro businesses succeed wherever they choose to locate, but this is bullshit.

[cityscape]

It's tearing apart the metro because it's going from redeveloping one blighted, existing neighborhood to a greenfield out at the nightmare that is VW.  "One KC" doesn't mean people have to be cool with any development going anywhere, it means one state shouldn't poach from the other.  People keep saying that this isn't the Wizards screwing KCMO because they got a better deal -- I have no doubt they got a better deal, nobody is arguing that the Wizards maliciously took a lesser offer just out of spite for KCMO.  But they're fleeing from anchoring a development in a neighborhood that really needs it so that they can build in an empty field next to a hellhole in the middle of nowhere.  Whether it's better for them or not doesn't have any bearing on whether they're screwing over KCMO.  They are absolutely screwing over KCMO.  And they're doing it because the other side of the metro decided to offer them a deal so they could break off the one they already had going.  That's how it's "tearing apart the metro."  How is it that "One KC" is always a justification for things from MO moving to KS instead of a defense against KS poaching from MO?  I do hope the Wizards, Cerner, and any other metro businesses succeed wherever they choose to locate, but this is bullshit.

So your justification is they wait another 4-6 years for the retail segment of the economy to improve and then build their dream?  That's just stupid.  It's a bad deal for KCMO no doubt, but this just makes more sense from a business perspective.  If the economy had been booming and retail had been springing up everywhere like it was in 2006, 2007 I'm sure they would have stayed put at the Bannister location.  It says something that they would rather abandon one project right next door to where a large portion of their offices are and put in a third location on the opposite side of the metro for their staff.  That says they need to do something soon and that waiting for Bannister to be the right moment wouldn't work for them anymore. 

[KCPowercat]

I think cerner and the wizards are being intertined for no good reason....the wizards do need a stadium....wizards owners (who do include some cerner execs) are using employees of cerner as bargaining chips....cerner does not own the wizards.

That in itself makes this whole thing shady.

[KCMax]

I think cerner and the wizards are being intertined for no good reason....the wizards do need a stadium....wizards owners (who do include some cerner execs) are using employees of cerner as bargaining chips....cerner does not own the wizards.

That in itself makes this whole thing shady.

What exactly is shady about it? Cerner stands to benefit from this. The Wizards seem to benefit from this. Why wouldn't they both jump at this deal even if they were owned by different entities?

[KCPowercat]

Cityscape's post I can't tell if he is talking about the wizards or cerner...just wanted to clear that up....the wizard's needing a place badly isn't 'forcing' cerner to build in a 3rd location.

How does anyone know this is a good deal for cerner?  Seems to build a 3rd location would increase their costs as opposed to more buildings on a current campus.

[KCMax]

Cityscape's post I can't tell if he is talking about the wizards or cerner...just wanted to clear that up....the wizard's needing a place badly isn't 'forcing' cerner to build in a 3rd location.

How does anyone know this is a good deal for cerner?  Seems to build a 3rd location would increase their costs as opposed to more buildings on a current campus.

According to the article, the office will be subsidized by the STAR bonds.

[LenexatoKCMO]

It's tearing apart the metro because it's going from redeveloping one blighted, existing neighborhood to a greenfield out at the nightmare that is VW.  "One KC" doesn't mean people have to be cool with any development going anywhere, it means one state shouldn't poach from the other.  People keep saying that this isn't the Wizards screwing KCMO because they got a better deal -- I have no doubt they got a better deal, nobody is arguing that the Wizards maliciously took a lesser offer just out of spite for KCMO.  But they're fleeing from anchoring a development in a neighborhood that really needs it so that they can build in an empty field next to a hellhole in the middle of nowhere.  Whether it's better for them or not doesn't have any bearing on whether they're screwing over KCMO.  They are absolutely screwing over KCMO.  And they're doing it because the other side of the metro decided to offer them a deal so they could break off the one they already had going.  That's how it's "tearing apart the metro."  How is it that "One KC" is always a justification for things from MO moving to KS instead of a defense against KS poaching from MO?  I do hope the Wizards, Cerner, and any other metro businesses succeed wherever they choose to locate, but this is bullshit.

Is it really "poaching" when one city in the metro can no longer pull off the development under current economic conditions but another city in the metro happens to be in a unique position to be able to pull it off?  

If everything was still on track over at bannister and they were on the verge of breaking ground and WyCo suddenly swooped in and sweet talked them away, I would be just as up in arms as you.  But that really isn't the situation here.  The KCMO project was broke down and not getting fixed any time soon - potentially endangering the team.  The WyCo project will hopefully allow the team to succeed as a metro amenity.  I don't really think "poaching" is a fair description.  

[mykem]

It's too bad that this situation has come to this. I think wherever they can get it done in the metro the quickest, is where they should go. They can't wait 5 more years for KCMO to get this done at Bannister. So, whats new, just add it to the list of another vacant piece of property in KCMO.

[Slappy the Wang]

Why do you guys always allow this stuff to "get" to you?  Businesses operate for their own self-interests, not the good of the community, the environment or any other philanthropic reason.  Even when they suggest such things, it's only to gain the heartfelt support of community activists, environmentalists and generous types to ultimately bolster revenue.

This is no surprise and unless something dramatic takes place in KCMO, you can probably expect the Chiefs/Royals to be in WyCo in the next 2 decades as well.  Look at all the abandoned areas of KC and think about how they got that way.

[ComandanteCero]

The attendance figures for the Wizards have been awful (through no real fault of their own, the venue is just too small), and the viewing experience for a lot of fans who show up is pretty shitty, that has a real impact on the team.  They should have been moving into their own stadium like this season (next season at the latest). 

As a fan, 2011 is already at the limits of "late", and that's assuming a breakneck development pace for the stadium.  Who knows when it would have happened at the Bannister Mall site, so I say, purely from a Wizards perspective "go for it".

Now, from a city perspective, I dislike the VW location with a passion.