Thoughts on Main St. in Midtown

[Anthony]

What can I say about main street that hasn't already been said?

Well the problems begin at Crown Center, the liberty memorial, and Union Station. If you have been to the Union Station in other cities like Denver, theirs is located right in the CBD. Well ours seems to be sitting off to the side, away from the loop, and has had a huge surface parking lot ever since it was built. I find that odd. The fact that it is facing the park, and the liberty memorial makes it even worse because it does not keep a very urban feel in that area. I don't wish to lose the memorial, I just wish that area felt more urban.

The new site of the Federal Reserve Bank is not downtown, no matter what some civic leader says, it is midtown in my eyes, and it will do little if anything to help the loop.

Crown Center, also does not keep with the whole urban feel, even though there are tall buildings there, they seem to cater more to the automobile. Further along, is the absolutely horrible midtown marketplace. If not for the rowhouses nearby, I would swear I was in Olathe, at a big box center. Talk about ruining the urban environs.

Finally there is the redeeming factor, the Plaza area.

[trailerkid]

What can I say about main street that hasn't already been said?

Well the problems begin at Crown Center, the liberty memorial, and Union Station. If you have been to the Union Station in other cities like Denver, theirs is located right in the CBD. Well ours seems to be sitting off to the side, away from the loop, and has had a huge surface parking lot ever since it was built. I find that odd. The fact that it is facing the park, and the liberty memorial makes it even worse because it does not keep a very urban feel in that area. I don't wish to lose the memorial, I just wish that area felt more urban.

I like the Liberty, Union Station & Crown Center neighborhood. I like where US is and its link between Crown Center and the Xroads. CC is too suburban, but it also was very groundbreaking in its mixed use context.

[bahua]

I agree. The 14th-31st part of Main is fine, or it's under the microscope for new development. The problem areas begin, in my opinion, south of 31st, down to about 39th. Even so, I don't think any of its entire length in the urban core is particularly bad.

[KCN]

What would you all think of replacing the center 2 lanes of Main with a light rail system similar to Houston's? I think it'd be kind of interesting, although the traffic collisions with the trains has been a bad problem.

[FangKC]

Well the problems begin at Crown Center, the liberty memorial, and Union Station. If you have been to the Union Station in other cities like Denver, theirs is located right in the CBD. Well ours seems to be sitting off to the side, away from the loop, and has had a huge surface parking lot ever since it was built. I find that odd. The fact that it is facing the park, and the liberty memorial makes it even worse because it does not keep a very urban feel in that area. I don't wish to lose the memorial, I just wish that area felt more urban.

Anthony, a history lesson: Parks commissioner and landscape architect George Kessler's plan for the Liberty Memorial and Penn Valley Park was never realized. Prior to the memorial's design and construction, Kessler had developed a plan where large civic buildings would have been constructed along the drive that runs south of the memorial along Wyandotte to 31st Street. It's the area where old St. Mary's Hospital and Trinity-Lutheran Hospital are now (but not for long).

When the Liberty Memorial was opened in 1926, the Jackson County Courthouse tower; City Hall tower; the old Federal Courthouse on Grand; and the Nelson-Atkins Art Museum had yet to be built. The Federal Reserve Bank had already opened downtown in 1922, so that put a little crimp in Kessler's plan. Politics and fate played a big part in placement of civic buildings.

What doomed the future of Kessler's entire Penn Valley Park plan was when William Rockhurst Nelson died in 1914. His will left an endowment for an art museum that was to be constructed on his estate near Brush Creek. Had Nelson not donated that land, the art museum might have been built in Penn Valley Park as planned. I've always found Nelson's action to be quite puzzling since he was a big promoter of Kessler's parks and boulevards plan.

Had Kessler's plan come to fruition, Wyandotte south of the memorial would now be home to the Nelson Art Museum; the Federal Courthouse; City Hall; the Jackson County Courthouse; the main public library; a natural history, and city museum; an opera house; and a symphony hall. An outdoor amphitheater was also planned for that bowl-shaped area where Broadway runs through Penn Valley Park. In that case, the Starlight Theater might have then been in Penn Valley Park too. Wyandotte would have been our Avenue of the Arts instead of Central.

Kessler had also hoped that a university campus would have been located in that area. I'm sure he would have liked William Volker to have built the University of Kansas City there. Had that happened, the UMKC campus would probably sit on the south side of 31st Street between Main and Broadway.

The post office was the only part of Kessler's dream realized in that area. One could make a weak argument that Penn Valley Community College fulfilled part of his dream. However, I think he'd have preferred that it had been on the SW corner of 31st and Main instead of the SE corner of 31st and SW Trafficway.

It's kind of ironic that the Federal Reserve Bank is moving there now, since Kessler wanted it in that location to begin with. Imagine how different Kansas City would be had that dream come true. Anthony's wish for that area would be a reality now.

About Union Station

It was placed there because rail lines could easily run through that area from the West Bottoms, and because there was already a smaller train station already in existence (between Main and Grand) that served one of the railroads that didn't use the old Union Depot in the West Bottoms. Track already had been laid through that area.

Because of the train station's size, it required a large parcel of land, which didn't exist at the time closer to the central business district. Keep in mind that a large railyard with covered platforms (train sheds) was needed as well. There were around 10 sets of double tracks side by side in Union Station's train yard at least.



In addition, there needed to be a relatively undeveloped area around the station for warehouses and freighthouses. Where could a station of that size been built downtown?

In 1914, when Union Station was opened, the downtown loop didn't exist because those freeways hadn't been built yet. "Downtown" truly extended unimpeded from 2nd Street in the River Market to around 18th Street. Few people even had cars then, so freeways weren't required. Downtown was completely built up, not like it is now. There was no vacant space for the station. Kansas City is not like Denver and a lot of other cities in that KC's downtown sits on top of a river bluff. Because of geographic realities (the bluffs), there were fewer options for where tracks could be placed.

The existing rail lines back then ran down along the riverbank, the West Bottoms, and in that basin area where Union Station is now. That area used to be a creekbed, so it was a relatively flat floodplain, and it was wide enough for many rows of track and platforms.

One has to remember that before Union Station opened in 1914, the train station had been in the West Bottoms. Building a station downtown would have required demolishing a lot of existing buildings, and displacing a lot of businesses. It would have also required running track uphill from the south, or north from the riverbank. Coming in from the north, the grades up to the River Market were too steep for so many parallel lines of track. Because the rail line there runs east and west, a large area would have been required for several rows of track to make a big turn south coming from both the east and west. That would have required demolishing a good part of the River Market.

At one time, it was discussed building the train station parallel to the river bank near the River Market, However, there wasn't enough room there for that many lines of track along the river bank from around Pennsylvania St. over to Grand because the grade is too step. The only place wide enough would have been east of Grand where Berkley Riverfront Park is now, and that's as far away from downtown as Union Station is now. Adding to the problem of a riverfront location was the constant threat of flooding, which is why the train station was moved out of the West Bottoms to begin with.

One also has to keep in mind that when Union Station was opened, Kansas City already had an extensive trolley and streetcar system that made it quite easy to get to downtown from the station. The new Union Station was much closer to the business district that the old Union Depot in the West Bottoms had been.

If not for the rowhouses nearby, I would swear I was in Olathe, at a big box center. Talk about ruining the urban environs.

I love those rowhouses by the Midtown Marketplace. I just wish there were more of them still remaining in the city.

[ComandanteCero]

How do we reduce the "lanage" on Main Street? I realize the suburban style businesses that invaded Main will protest like hell, but the only way to revitalize this area is make it look more urban and less like Metcalf. Main is absolutely ridiculously wide-- it is freaking laughable. Is it very busy? Yes. Are the lanes useful? Yes. But I say clog that beast until you force people to use The Metro. Get people on those sidewalks and Main could become a great urban corridor. BRT that baby all the way down to the Plaza!

Sorry trailer, but things don't work that way. If you made Main street thinner, motorists would use alternative routes, not the bus, or they might still take Main street, but it would be a mess.

I am not a person who believes in "forced" urbanism. Trying to force people onto the bus is stupid, instead people should want to ride the bus. Trying to force people to live in high densitys is stupid, however if people want to live in those high densitys, that is fine. Take a look at the area around the Plaza, people want to live there, there is no mandate that says that huge single family homes are forbidden, yet it still works.

The thing about the Plaza though is that if you are in the shopping area it is basically pedestrian oriented. Slow traffic is a must for the shopping blocks of the Plaza. Look at which streets get the most foot traffic and look for similarities. The trends i see are slower traffic, more store fronts along sidewalks and the feeling of narrower streets (which can be achieved by median landscaping and trees on sidwalks).

Now, Main Street has the possibility of truly being a MAIN street in mid-town. But you have to make it pedestrian friendly. To do this you have to make the sidwalks a bit broader and the streets narrower. I think traffic will be considered a mess for people who think they are going to shoot down Main to get to wherever they are going. But pretty soon those people who just want to use main to get to some other destination will learn to use any of the other parallel parkways or throughways if they want to get there quickly, thankfully Main is not the only major traffic artery going south from downtown.

Now, will traffic be slower? Absolutely, but that's precisely what you need to make something pedestrian friendly. Chances are if people still go down Main it'll be cause they want to go somewhere on Main or off it, or because they just want to take the "scenic" route.

In St. Louis i had to drive by the Delmar Loop to get to some of my friends' apartments, now if you've been to the Loop you know that it is a snails pace for cars. But i never cared cause if i was even on the Loop portion of Delmar its cause i wanted to be there or had to go somewhere in there. If i was in a hurry i took any of the parallel streets.

Eventually i think major portions of downtown and mid-town have to be made pedestrian friendly in this way if people even want to have urbanity.

[paisstat]

First, I think Main Street could be the grand N-S Blvd. in KC. We need to begin with simple things planting treets the entire way from downtown to The Plaza and making the sidewalks user friendly and attractive. Secondly, the traffic should be slowed with a series of events, like narrowing of the street, with angled parking at places and curb outgrowths (lack of better words, ha!). i. e. at the intersection of streets, the curb and sidewalks should extend out into the street and do away with that portion of street, as is done in many other areas, not only in KC but much more in other cities. My grandest idea of Main is to incorporate a tram line down Main, right through the middle, running from the downown to at leass The Plaza and all the way to Brookside via Bro0okside Blvd. Of course this would only serve mainly tourists and transit needs to serve the unerprovlideged, and those who need to get to work via transit, thereforwe should do another test line.

[trailerkid]

I think traffic will be considered a mess for people who think they are going to shoot down Main to get to wherever they are going. But pretty soon those people who just want to use main to get to some other destination will learn to use any of the other parallel parkways or throughways if they want to get there quickly, thankfully Main is not the only major traffic artery going south from downtown.

Now, will traffic be slower? Absolutely, but that's precisely what you need to make something pedestrian friendly.

Zipping through a part of town in your car needs to be something reserved for our freeways or highways-- not the streets and boulevards that run through the heart of the city.

I remember in Minneapolis, the main drag leading from downtown into the Uptown area (like a bigger version of Westport) was bumper to bumper on a Saturday afternoon the entire way. The road wasn't tiny, but it surely wasn't the size of Main Street. The fact is that slowing down traffic in the city on Main will help would encourage development in Midtown between Crown Center and Westport. That stretch of Midtown would be ready to welcome new condos, restaurtants, and boutiques-- the next "up and coming" 'hood in KC. Of course, Midtown Marketplace would have to eventually go, but we could build KC's Midtown into our own version of Chicago's North Side that surrounds N. Clark Street.

[trailerkid]

It looks like a property-tax abatement district may be coming to a stretch of  Main Street in Midtown. 

http://kansascity.bizjournals.com/kansa ... ily37.html

Midtown has just as much possibility for creating neat housing and retail as downtown.

[chrizow]

midtown marketplace doesn't need to "go," but the city could buy easements from Costco or whomever to place street-serving retail and services there.  so there could be a strip of ped-friendly res and/or retail, with midtown marketplace sort of looming behind it. 

[ozone84]

I remember in Minneapolis, the main drag leading from downtown into the Uptown area (like a bigger version of Westport) was bumper to bumper on a Saturday afternoon the entire way. The road wasn't tiny, but it surely wasn't the size of Main Street.

Yep!  Hennepin Ave.  My wife and I lived in Uptown for a couple of years.  Right off Lyndale Ave S.  We walked everywhere.  Up to Hennepin and Lake to shop, eat or just hang out.  We rarely drove, because there was very little parking.  Rather than whine and moan and dream of multi-level parking garages we just adapted and I feel we're the better for it.

We avoided those areas when driving for precisely the reasons you mention.  Slow going and pedestrians everywhere.  That was part of what made Uptown so cool.  In KC, some would call it a disaster and the traffic engineers would start figuring a way to get those cars moving! 

[trailerkid]

Main Street is still a busy corridor filled with businesses, but the design is horrific. I guess we are lucky to have a corridor filled with suburban style businesses mixed with old urban design rather than an abandoned ghost town filled with transients as many Midwest cities have in their the middle of their core.

There are pedestrians on Main Street...quite a few. Why in the hell are all the businesses built for cars? I had no problems walking around the urban core until I got to the stretch of Main Street around Linwood. This area may as well be in Northern OP. I almost got hit on foot a number of times as SUVs ignored the fact that I had a walk sign. I guess that's what happens when you import suburban design to the urban core.

I'm just saddened that we haven't done anything sooner. Main St. could be a grand urban stretch. The pedestrians and residential are there to support it. Instead, we have a giant commuter corridor running through the core that acts as a mini-expressway. There are no excuses. No more destruction of existing urban infractruce. No more widening of streets into expressways. No more parking lots in front of businesses. We have so much potential, but so much momentum pushing us toward having an urban core that looks like Metcalf Ave.

[paisstat]

Not surprising that you were almost hit several times.  It doesn't even register on the minds of most individuals that someone might be walking, not only do they not care, but their minds aren't even capable of considering such a concept. 

Any word on Main at 39th?  I know they have the decorative crosswalks in place.  What about the landscaping?  New sidewalks?  Maybe fixing up the area will bring help extend Westport activity east.  I can envision development difusing north and south from there, of course there would be a need for new codes encouraging urban development and not that suburban junk that is proliferating now. 

I like the idea of the special tax zone along the coridor.  It would at least be one step towards the goal of a light-rail line, which would do more to make the area pedestrian oriented than anything else.  I say make it difficult to drive both there and everywhere in the city, and make it easy as hell to jump on a bus or train.  Of course there will be those who say making it hard to drive and navigate will only discourage people from going there at all.  I disagree.

[moderne]

    Thats no cable car, thats a steet car.  By the way SF is still using some old KC street cars.

[Big Red Storm]

I definitely think light rail down Main would turn it into the great corridor we crave.  Put stops in the same spots as the Max stops (say that 5 times fast) and I think the street would grow well, as development usually grows around stops.  Main Street has so much potential, I could easily see it turn into one of our grandest streets.

[beautyfromashes]

 By the way SF is still using some old KC street cars.

Well, let's get em' back!!!