KCRag Forum

I think its already open. Inside entrance only.

permit for ingredient. the old mango room space?

DaveKCMO wrote: permit for ingredient. the old mango room space?

nice work.

I really can't think of many better tenants even though I'm not a fan. This corner will be more active than it's been in decades. I bet ingredient will also do outdoor seating there.

They better stay open in the evenings!

DaveKCMO wrote: permit for ingredient. the old mango room space?

They should be open in just over a month, I think.

interior demo for ingredient started last week. hopefully they'll have outdoor seating, as mango did.

CWB totally fucked this building up by turning the entire atrium into a bank midwest. Downtown has more residents, restaurants, and activity than its had in decades and the biggest chunk of retail in the most prominant location is turned into bank?

We know retail is a tough sell but there is more than enough foot traffic in this area for stuff like walgreen's,    staples, tj maxx, bed bath and beyond. If crown center stays full and busy there is no reason to think town pavillion couldn't also be viable with retail and restaurants. It's like they just gave up when the area around them was finally starting to rebound. 

 

trailerkid wrote: CWB totally fucked this building up by turning the entire atrium into a bank midwest. Downtown has more residents, restaurants, and activity than its had in decades and the biggest chunk of retail in the most prominant location is turned into bank?

We know retail is a tough sell but there is more than enough foot traffic in this area for stuff like walgreen's,    staples, tj maxx, bed bath and beyond. If crown center stays full and busy there is no reason to think town pavillion couldn't also be viable with retail and restaurants. It's like they just gave up when the area around them was finally starting to rebound. 

 

I vehemently disagree. We've got plenty of street-level, street-facing retail spots that we can fill up first. No need to build more of the insular food court model.

staubio wrote: I vehemently disagree. We've got plenty of street-level, street-facing retail spots that we can fill up first. No need to build more of the insular food court model.

1. The space already wraps around the entire building at street level. Are we talking about the same space?

2. There is no plan whatsoever for storefront retail outside of P+L and there seems to be no momentum from property owners or developers to make it happen. CWB controlling a large, uninterrupted space in the center of downtown increases the likelihood of a coherent retail scene downtown. If you need examples of the failure of the free market to create lively, pedestrian-oriented storefront retail...examine Delaware Street (the nicest pedestrian stretch in the region) block by block.

3. Town Pavillion was already built to accommodate retail needs. Further, it is modern space that would only need tenant finishes compared to reconfiguring entire buildings currently vacant or housing alternate uses.

4. The space has numerous entrances/exits that feed to the sidewalks. It is surely not a "garage and go" design like we've seen with Cosentino's. The lack of retail at these large entrances are now dead spaces as there is little to no pedestrian activity in/out of the building as it now just an empty bank tower. Town Pavillion should act as a retail anchor driving traffic to the sidewalks and side streets around it.

5. Do you think office space on lower levels > retail? B level office space replacing retail is never good whether the retail goes vertical or not. Retail over multiple floors in a building built into the urban fabric of the CBD like Town Pavillion is much better overall use than bank offices.

6. I'm a little floored by your "KC assumption" we can't have both. Thinking Town Pavillion isn't integrated into what could be an impressive, urban crossroads of the CBD is being quite unimaginative. Almost every large office tower in America has interior retail corridors and we're lucky one of ours used to extend and face passing pedestrians (before it was gutted and replaced with a 9-5 office for a crumby bank).

trailerkid wrote: 1. The space already wraps around the entire building at street level. Are we talking about the same space?

what? Have you been to main? or walnut?  On the Main side of Town Pavilion, the town pavilion stree level looks like this: (1) curves gym (not sure what it is currently; (2) Nutrition Smoothies; (3) Planet Sub; (4) Bank Midwest Lobby + street level offices (maybe 20 yards?); (5) Ingredient.  On the South side of Town Pavilion is Ingredient, entrance door, Andrews McMeel Publishing.  On the Walnut Side: Andrews McMeel Publishing, garage entrance, Bank Midwest Lobby, Kinkos.  On the North Side, Kinkos, empty tenant (used to be Fred P.Otts), KFC/Pizza Hut, entrance, Curves gym. 

Not only are you wrong about the Town Pavilion Building, you couldn't be more wrong.  TP is a good example, IMO, of how to incorporate commercial space on the ground level.  On the ground level, there exist 7-8 retail spaces.  And the interior lobby has 3-4 more retail tenants. 

Bank Midwest does have a prominant lobby.  But, it is a friekin' office building, after all.  And Bank Midwest is the primary tenant in the building.  A bank is going to have a bank in the main lobby.  It is their headquarter branch.  We're lucky to have them downtown.  Could have easily moved out south.  Thank you Bank Midwest for your commitment to downtown.   

What's a "headquarters branch?"  Its either one or the other.

moderne wrote: What's a "headquarters branch?"  Its either one or the other.

Location for the Downtown Branch per the "Branch Locator":

1111 Main Street
Town Pavilion
Kansas City, MO 64105
(816) 471-9800

https://www.bankmw.com/Locator.aspx

This branch is also the headquarters.  Seems logical to me. 

Yeah - I think they are just indicating that there is a retail storefront there where customers can do their banking business.  If it was just referred to as a headquarters, customers might assume that it was all corporate offices and no one is there to cash their check or take their deposit. 

DaveKCMO wrote: interior demo for ingredient started last week. hopefully they'll have outdoor seating, as mango did.

interior work for ingredient appears beyond demo now. lots of activity this morning.

on a side note, we went to the leawood location last week and it was not good. the chicken on my friend's pizza tasted like dry tofu and my salad dressing was devoid of any flavor. it will be interesting to see how they compete with the mixx in such close proximity (the mixx's food quality has been very consistent for me since day one).

DaveKCMO wrote: interior work for ingredient appears beyond demo now. lots of activity this morning.

on a side note, we went to the leawood location last week and it was not good. the chicken on my friend's pizza tasted like dry tofu and my salad dressing was devoid of any flavor. it will be interesting to see how they compete with the mixx in such close proximity (the mixx's food quality has been very consistent for me since day one).

ingredient has more name recognition and that's a more high profile location. I don't understand the popularity of ingredient, but people like it.

trailerkid wrote: ingredient has more name recognition

i don't think this is true in KC?  it seems like everyone knows the mixx, at least in the Plaza-Downtown axis.  i have eaten at the mixx probably a dozen times, but have never even thought to eat at ingredient.

how do they compare to a jason's or jimmy johns?  and how is price compared to mixx?  mixx is good quality but you also pay for it.  ingredient would have its place if it's between the two but it sounds like they may be using sysco or similar as a supplier, which'd put them in the suck bin.

was looking forward to plaza getting a sandwich joint other than panera.  doesn't sound as promising now.

chrizow wrote: i don't think this is true in KC?  it seems like everyone knows the mixx, at least in the Plaza-Downtown axis.  i have eaten at the mixx probably a dozen times, but have never even thought to eat at ingredient.

that's not really what I mean. Ingredient has store on mass street, leawood, columbia, coming soon on the plaza + downtown. the mixx has been tucked away behind away behind the plaza library parking garage for 5 years. I would guess your average downtown worker has heard more about ingredient than the mixx in the last 6 months if they've heard anything at all. 

ignatius wrote: how do they compare to a jason's or jimmy johns?  and how is price compared to mixx?  mixx is good quality but you also pay for it.  ingredient would have its place if it's between the two but it sounds like they may be using sysco or similar as a supplier, which'd put them in the suck bin.

was looking forward to plaza getting a sandwich joint other than panera.  doesn't sound as promising now.

you will spend more at mixx/ingredient. comparing the two, ingredient is less expensive but portions seem smaller. ingredient has pizza/wraps/breakfast, but mixx has pasta. they overlap with sandwiches, salads, and beer/wine.

chrizow wrote: i don't think this is true in KC?  it seems like everyone knows the mixx, at least in the Plaza-Downtown axis.  i have eaten at the mixx probably a dozen times, but have never even thought to eat at ingredient.

I agree.  Almost no one in KC knows about Ingredient beyond the foodie crowd and Johnson Countians who spend a lot of time in Lawrence.  The Mixx is very well known, especially as a place for to meet friends, conduct business, etc.

they've jackhammered some of the concrete around the SW corner, so maybe we will be getting improved outdoor seating space for ingredient?