KCRag Forum

I do think that this block turned out better than what the neighsayers said that it would have. I walked on one of these sidewalks and I thought that they were plenty wide enough. We have to remember though that the Rep Theater is much H&R Block property and they had the final say in the design. Yea they could have put retail in the north side, yea they could have put the garage doors inside of the parking garage keeping the sidewalk cleer, yea they could have built a more square building but they are now much a fixture in downtown KCMO. Lets give Block a round of aplause  for being the first new building finished and occupied in the Power and Light district. Now for more buildings.

lock+load wrote: Amen.  Why is everything a comparison to the worst case scenario?  Our goal should not be just having something better than a surface lot! 

And while I'm thinking about it....why are the sidewalks around the Block building so narrow?  For what is supposedly a pedestrian focused area, you'd think someone would have at least looked at the Plaza to see what works.  Apparently not.   Oh, wait.  There not next to a surface lot, good enough for me!

and on the other side, why is everything compared to one person's opinion of perfect design?  Some get so bad I'm starting to think somebody is going to say the P&L district is a failure because the architect picked biege stone.......it's silly the amount of complaining that is done.  Just because people LIKE what is happening doesn't mean they are settling.

The building is on a small block.  Most other buildings that size have an alley to hide the "undesirable" parts in.  I suppose they could have done a better job, but all things considered--and I'm not talking about this vs. a surface lot--it's probably not that bad.  The stage, access to docks, etc all need to be looked at before one says it's a "design abortion."  There are probably reasons it was done the way it was.  Find them out before throwing stones.

And yeah, the sidewalk could be wider, especially with the streetlamps in them.  Two people can't even walk down it without the lamp making you both move apart.

But, that is an interesting wall.  Go look at it up close.  There is some neat geology there.

I see both points you guys are trying to make. On the one hand, I would like to see more interaction between building being built and the sidewalks. It would be nice to have windows and wider sidewalks. On the other hand, I don't think its such a big deal here. If it gets to be that every building downtown has this kind of non-interaction with the street, then yes, that's a problem. I'm not really sure why that difference in opinion created such an explosion between posters, but whatever.

Re: a window, what's on the other side of that wall in the Rep Theater? Perhaps there cannot be a window?

KCMax wrote: Re: a window, what's on the other side of that wall in the Rep Theater? Perhaps there cannot be a window?

As has been stated, the other side of that wall is the back of the stage.  There cannot be a window there.

a window would add SOOOO much more interest and vitality to the block!!!!  &&&

staubio wrote: As has been stated, the other side of that wall is the back of the stage.  There cannot be a window there.

Too bad its not the women's dressing room. Now a window there would definitely add some vibrancy and vitality to the area!

KCMax wrote: Too bad its not the women's dressing room. Now a window there would definitely add some vibrancy and vitality to the area!

Not a bad idea. They could turn that wall into something like the Red Light district in Amsterdam.....have a bunch of hot ladies behind the glass.

KCPowercat wrote: and on the other side, why is everything compared to one person's opinion of perfect design?  Some get so bad I'm starting to think somebody is going to say the P&L district is a failure because the architect picked biege stone.......it's silly the amount of complaining that is done.  Just because people LIKE what is happening doesn't mean they are settling.

I "like" the building just fine.  I just think it could have been better from an urban design standpoint.

There are a lot of ways I think it could have been better aesthetically, but that IS just my opinion, and it isn't relevant to this conversation.  Streetscape and urban design is something that affects all of us and has nothing to do with what color the stone is.

staubio wrote: As has been stated, the other side of that wall is the back of the stage.  There cannot be a window there.

And as has also been stated, the theater and stage could have been oriented differently on the site.

Long wrote: I "like" the building just fine.  I just think it could have been better from an urban design standpoint.

There are a lot of ways I think it could have been better aesthetically, but that IS just my opinion, and it isn't relevant to this conversation.  Streetscape and urban design is something that affects all of us and has nothing to do with what color the stone is.

Well there is always an opinion that it could have been done better from any standpoint.  Sure the theatre could have been arranged differently...would you like a blank wall staring into the middle courtyard?  Urban design doesn't occur in a vacuum.  Slapping display windows on the wall, does that REALLY add anything? 

I just walked by this site...it's 15-20 steps of blank wall with an incline...imagining myself walking to a bar in the P&L district with friends, I don't even notice the wall....I'm no architect so this is just opinion.  I'm just not sure where this utopian "urban design" district exists....I'd love for somebody to point it out so I can go visit it.  No garage doors or blank walls would be cool, but not sure how anything is accomplished within those buildings.

It just sounds like everybody is putting a little too much negative energy into this overall small design "flaw".

Long wrote: And as has also been stated, the theater and stage could have been oriented differently on the site.

I guess, but do theaters have windows typically?

Do you guys seriously want fake windows on that wall????  Go look at zona rosa up close, or the new target across from oak park mall, they have a fancy wall with fake windows on the north side, or check out the restaurants in Independence near Little Blue and look at their required fake windows.

I like the design.  If it were precast concrete I might be able to see your point, but you guys are being ridiculous.

Fake windows are stupid. This isn't Disneyland. Let's not dress up something to make it appear to be something it isn't. If there was actually a business within those walls, fine, but otherwise keep the "stage set" for inside the Rep Theater.

if you're going to paint the wall, paint something awesome like a stegosaurus or a mural of dragons or something. 

kcmetro wrote: Fake windows are stupid.

zona rosa hater!

KCPowercat wrote: Well there is always an opinion that it could have been done better from any standpoint.  Sure the theatre could have been arranged differently...would you like a blank wall staring into the middle courtyard?  Urban design doesn't occur in a vacuum.  Slapping display windows on the wall, does that REALLY add anything? 

I just walked by this site...it's 15-20 steps of blank wall with an incline...imagining myself walking to a bar in the P&L district with friends, I don't even notice the wall....I'm no architect so this is just opinion.  I'm just not sure where this utopian "urban design" district exists....I'd love for somebody to point it out so I can go visit it.  No garage doors or blank walls would be cool, but not sure how anything is accomplished within those buildings.

It just sounds like everybody is putting a little too much negative energy into this overall small design "flaw".

I don't think any of the critics are losing any sleep over this issue.  I think the point of the discussion is that it could have been done better with respect to the streetscape.  In my mind, the fundamental flaw is this whole idea of internally-oriented courtyards.  This is a city with an established street grid.  Why remove activity from the street grid and insert it into these isolated courtyard spaces?

Activity belongs on the street and sidewalk, and the back door belongs in an alley.  Anyone remember alleys?  And I don't have a problem with a truck dock.  What I have a problem with is when the whole sidewalk experience is transplanted to an internal courtyard just because someone thinks its a cool thing to do.

I'm not saying the courtyards and the P&L overall will be a failure.  I just think its unfortunate to move activity off the street and sidewalk because someone thinks it looks nice.  The Plaza is one of the most successful and desirable districts in the city.  I don't think its a coincidence that it conforms to so many accepted guidelines of urban design.  And it is almost entirely oriented to the sidewalk and the street.  The occasional blank wall is hardly the issue. 

also, it's not like the other side of the street will be blank... that's where the grocery store will be located with (according to the rendering) a full block of real glass windows.

Long wrote: Why remove activity from the street grid and insert it into these isolated courtyard spaces?

Activity belongs on the street and sidewalk, and the back door belongs in an alley.  Anyone remember alleys?  And I don't have a problem with a truck dock.  What I have a problem with is when the whole sidewalk experience is transplanted to an internal courtyard just because someone thinks its a cool thing to do.

I'm not saying the courtyards and the P&L overall will be a failure.  I just think its unfortunate to move activity off the street and sidewalk because someone thinks it looks nice.  The Plaza is one of the most successful and desirable districts in the city.  I don't think its a coincidence that it conforms to so many accepted guidelines of urban design.  And it is almost entirely oriented to the sidewalk and the street.  The occasional blank wall is hardly the issue. 

I think there will be a lot of street side activity along 14th with restaurants facing the street....between 13th & 14th, there is a middle established walkway that connects the Live! district to the President hotel...that also allows for gathering of people that couldn't happen on the street side....I see the benefits of both....and this district is giving us both options.

chrizow wrote: if you're going to paint the wall, paint something awesome like a stegosaurus or a mural of dragons or something. 

Or a Li-Gir. With numb chucks.