Re: OFFICIAL - Strata (H&R Block's 2nd Tower)
Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:14 am
From your lips to God's ears
Impossiblejohnmatrix wrote: ↑Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:01 amThere will be a baseball stadium on that side in the next 10-15 years
KCRag Forum
OFFICIAL - Strata (H&R Block's 2nd Tower)
Page 16 of 40
Re: OFFICIAL - Strata (H&R Block's 2nd Tower)
Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:32 am
Re: OFFICIAL - Strata (H&R Block's 2nd Tower)
Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:36 am
There's an active renovation project on the north loop stadium site. It's time has passed.johnmatrix wrote: ↑Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:01 amThere will be a baseball stadium on that side in the next 10-15 yearsmoderne wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:38 pm A development at 1034 or anywhere north of 11th St(Petticoat Lane). While the the skyline from the south has changed with numerous additions this century(albeit nothing that could be called a skyscraper), the north side of the loop is frozen in time from the last century. All those acres of surface lots on the streetcar line are almost as ridiculous as the two empty blocks at 12th and 10th & Grand.
Re: OFFICIAL - Strata (H&R Block's 2nd Tower)
Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:02 am
Lol if you think glass cube is going to stop a stadium.
Re: OFFICIAL - Strata (H&R Block's 2nd Tower)
Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:06 am
Mega Super Block Stadium < commercial/residential redeveloped north loop
Re: OFFICIAL - Strata (H&R Block's 2nd Tower)
Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:17 am
We have plenty of room for both.
Re: OFFICIAL - Strata (H&R Block's 2nd Tower)
Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:20 am
Future season tickets holder here if they move downtown. Come on, Royals ownership!
Re: OFFICIAL - Strata (H&R Block's 2nd Tower)
Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:55 am
Building the stadium at the same size as today would require tearing down two buildings and using every inch of every parking lot.
Re: OFFICIAL - Strata (H&R Block's 2nd Tower)
Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:54 am
I'm tabling this as it isn't any part of this thread.
Re: OFFICIAL - Strata (H&R Block's 2nd Tower)
Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:06 pm
We don't though
Re: OFFICIAL - Strata (H&R Block's 2nd Tower)
Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:20 pm
Why on earth does everyone want to trust the Glass family with building a new stadium? Can you imagine how cheap and ugly that would be?
Re: OFFICIAL - Strata (H&R Block's 2nd Tower)
Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:25 pm
This project (Strata) would be under the same pressures. When you look at this in terms of the profit, Strata's parking is also the building owners gaining money by being able to provide parking at a cost on top of the office space rather than companies looking elsewhere. It's the value proposition for the owner relative to the value proposition for the public relative to the value proposition for the city budget and sometimes you have to pick two out of three.
Project incentives is the city giving up something in order for the public to get a better project. It could be a nicer design, less parking or streetfront retail. Comparing to a stadium does the population care more about aesthetics or the cost of incentives? Should we be focused more on the design or the cost of a ticket? If the city wants to discourage teardowns or large dedicated parking garages for any project there will be something given up if you're talking about a stadium or a building.
The lessons of complaining about aesthetics for every single project is we have to ask what is the best thing to be willing to accept today? There's room to move the needle on everything but right now aesthetics is no higher than third place with project size and pedestrian experience dramatically more important. Glass can be replaced and cladding can be changed but you can't easily increase the size of a building. A less than ideal design that's 20% bigger helps build the density that will support everything else that needs to change.
And when affordability is a huge concern (and always will be) accepting that some projects will be slightly ugly should be normal and expected.
Re: OFFICIAL - Strata (H&R Block's 2nd Tower)
Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:47 pm
Re: OFFICIAL - Strata (H&R Block's 2nd Tower)
Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:24 pm
I assume any move downtown would require a significant City investment.
My worry is still parking. Will they give up that sweet, sweet parking revenue.
My worry is still parking. Will they give up that sweet, sweet parking revenue.
Re: OFFICIAL - Strata (H&R Block's 2nd Tower)
Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:03 pm
Re: OFFICIAL - Strata (H&R Block's 2nd Tower)
Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:49 am
Hi Everyone. I had been reading the thread for about a weeks; finally had to jump in.. (Thank you for the verify, John.)
The subject of TIF has been a debate when I lived in downtown (Union Hill - 204 E. 30th) in the 1990's until early 2000's.. My career forced me to move back to New Jersey in 2001.
TIF is the grand equalizer. Add this to the overly conservative business community and seemingly endless "green fields" of Kansas.. TIF is "here to stay" if KC's downtown is to continue on the current (positive) trend.
An item not discussed routinely are the tax structures of both Missouri and the city of Kansas City. Add the necessity of structured parking; the cost of site remediation, and critically the "KC Head Tax" for employees - companies will be reluctant to commit to a large presence in the urban core; especially when the cost structure of, say 151st and Nall or some silly-ass place is used for comparison.
Further, whilst the young workforce might live in downtown; those interstate highways conveniently whisk said employees to Johnson County for their workday..
Those on the City Council who have been hostile to TIF and Tax Abatement are fiddling with fire. Should critical mass of class-A and class-B office development materialize, only then could TIF be counted as "optional".
Reading the Kansas City Business Journal (the Kansas City Star is worthless. They cut their Business Desk down to one person, I am told. Sad.) -- These strip centers in JoCo and Northland with a residential element above it: Silly as hell. But, it serves those who are born and raised in the JoCo environs. A fad.
Disagree? Feast your eyes on Barry Road; at a development named "Zona Rosa".
The subject of TIF has been a debate when I lived in downtown (Union Hill - 204 E. 30th) in the 1990's until early 2000's.. My career forced me to move back to New Jersey in 2001.
TIF is the grand equalizer. Add this to the overly conservative business community and seemingly endless "green fields" of Kansas.. TIF is "here to stay" if KC's downtown is to continue on the current (positive) trend.
An item not discussed routinely are the tax structures of both Missouri and the city of Kansas City. Add the necessity of structured parking; the cost of site remediation, and critically the "KC Head Tax" for employees - companies will be reluctant to commit to a large presence in the urban core; especially when the cost structure of, say 151st and Nall or some silly-ass place is used for comparison.
Further, whilst the young workforce might live in downtown; those interstate highways conveniently whisk said employees to Johnson County for their workday..
Those on the City Council who have been hostile to TIF and Tax Abatement are fiddling with fire. Should critical mass of class-A and class-B office development materialize, only then could TIF be counted as "optional".
Reading the Kansas City Business Journal (the Kansas City Star is worthless. They cut their Business Desk down to one person, I am told. Sad.) -- These strip centers in JoCo and Northland with a residential element above it: Silly as hell. But, it serves those who are born and raised in the JoCo environs. A fad.
Disagree? Feast your eyes on Barry Road; at a development named "Zona Rosa".
Re: OFFICIAL - Strata (H&R Block's 2nd Tower)
Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 7:23 pm
This is a great take. Spot on. Would love to see you visit and your thoughts on the changes since you left.kenrbnj wrote: ↑Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:49 am Hi Everyone. I had been reading the thread for about a weeks; finally had to jump in.. (Thank you for the verify, John.)
The subject of TIF has been a debate when I lived in downtown (Union Hill - 204 E. 30th) in the 1990's until early 2000's.. My career forced me to move back to New Jersey in 2001.
TIF is the grand equalizer. Add this to the overly conservative business community and seemingly endless "green fields" of Kansas.. TIF is "here to stay" if KC's downtown is to continue on the current (positive) trend.
An item not discussed routinely are the tax structures of both Missouri and the city of Kansas City. Add the necessity of structured parking; the cost of site remediation, and critically the "KC Head Tax" for employees - companies will be reluctant to commit to a large presence in the urban core; especially when the cost structure of, say 151st and Nall or some silly-ass place is used for comparison.
Further, whilst the young workforce might live in downtown; those interstate highways conveniently whisk said employees to Johnson County for their workday..
Those on the City Council who have been hostile to TIF and Tax Abatement are fiddling with fire. Should critical mass of class-A and class-B office development materialize, only then could TIF be counted as "optional".
Reading the Kansas City Business Journal (the Kansas City Star is worthless. They cut their Business Desk down to one person, I am told. Sad.) -- These strip centers in JoCo and Northland with a residential element above it: Silly as hell. But, it serves those who are born and raised in the JoCo environs. A fad.
Disagree? Feast your eyes on Barry Road; at a development named "Zona Rosa".
Re: OFFICIAL - Strata (H&R Block's 2nd Tower)
Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 8:14 pm
Zona Rosa as a future, potentially-dense, urban node is made problematic because of its' location. It's up against freeways on two sides, which minimizes its' ability to build dense residential around it on all sides to support the retail long-term. It was also built after some single-family homes were built on the SW border--thus denying it the ability to put in some 6-story apartment buildings there.kenrbnj wrote: ↑Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:49 am Hi Everyone. I had been reading the thread for about a weeks; finally had to jump in...
...
The subject of TIF has been a debate when I lived in downtown...
TIF is the grand equalizer. Add this to the overly conservative business community and seemingly endless "green fields" of Kansas.. TIF is "here to stay" if KC's downtown is to continue on the current (positive) trend.
...
Disagree? Feast your eyes on Barry Road; at a development named "Zona Rosa".
All these obstacles made it impossible to ever create a walkable neighborhood around it that people could reach without a vehicle.
I like some of what they attempted to do. They just did it in the wrong location.
Below is a map showing better locations for Zona Rosa (circled) where one could have attempted this. It still would have allowed highway traffic to reach it quickly, but there would have been room to build apartment buildings, and townhouses nearby.
Even if Zona Rosa would have been built on the SW corner of Barry Road and N. Congress, or where St. Luke's North is at Barry and St. Clair Avenue--before there was a lot of other development there, it would have had a better future. Platte County wouldn't be facing the problems after having given incentives for Zona Rosa, because long-term denser residential could have been built around it to provide more of a customer base. Now, Zona Rosa isn't paying for itself.
With Zona Rosa $1 million in the red, Platte County sues to find out who must pay
https://www.kansascity.com/news/busines ... 74550.html
But I digress.
Re: OFFICIAL - Strata (H&R Block's 2nd Tower)
Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 8:54 am
Fang, I do agree with you entirely about the fate of Zona Rosa. The concept was poorly situated. Quite ironically, when I was a fresh graduate of university in 1995, I experienced the "Zona" geographic area firsthand -- ..more than you know: 1000' to the North of Zona Rosa was an apartment complex named "The Lakes". I lived there, as a broke 25-year old.
"The Lakes" (verified it does exist today) was located just between the current location of Zona Rosa and the former Ramada inn (which is discussed frequently in this forum.)
Fang, I am more convinced than ever that people wish to live in a true walking community with a sense of critical mass. A strip center of sufficient size might accomplish critical mass. With the downtown setting the standard; however, the suburban counterpart would either must have a superior product (quality of the unit) OR a significant discount from "the real downtown thing".
Potential differentiators *might* be parking and/or schools (depending on demographic).
"The Lakes" (verified it does exist today) was located just between the current location of Zona Rosa and the former Ramada inn (which is discussed frequently in this forum.)
Fang, I am more convinced than ever that people wish to live in a true walking community with a sense of critical mass. A strip center of sufficient size might accomplish critical mass. With the downtown setting the standard; however, the suburban counterpart would either must have a superior product (quality of the unit) OR a significant discount from "the real downtown thing".
Potential differentiators *might* be parking and/or schools (depending on demographic).
Re: OFFICIAL - Strata (H&R Block's 2nd Tower)
Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 9:04 pm
Back on topic, please.