Economic Perception

[chrizow]

it's all false.  time is a lie.  i saw it on the internet.

http://www.timecube.com/

[staubio]

...and what devious alternate outcome are all of these "scammers" after for proliferating this global warming myth? They didn't just make this all up for fun, did they?

[bobbyhawks]

...and what devious alternate outcome are all of these "scammers" after for proliferating this global warming myth? They didn't just make this all up for fun, did they?

Didn't you read the article?  They did it for funding!  Just like Jonas Salk... that greedy bastard. &

I still fail to see how, even if it were a myth, cutting carbon emissions and energy independence is a bad thing.

Do we still burn people for being witches?  [insert snarky comment about liberal views on carbon emissions]

[LenexatoKCMO]

That has to be one of the most curious explanations I have ever come accross.  Care to flesh this economic threory out for us in a bit more detail?  What constitutes a "malinvestment"? How is this "malinvestment" "liquidated" and "replaced"?  And how pray tell does any of that relate to the goods, labour, and capital markets that form the backbone of macro measurement?

No answers?

[Steve52]

Davos World Economic Forum Day One. 

Blackstone group CEO Stephen Schwarzman, walked up, clearly in an upbeat mood (unusual for financial types at Davos this year). He told us that, so far, he'd only been meeting with central bankers: "There is no other business to be done," he said with a shrug. "You are walking with your head high," I remarked. "I'm walking with my head still on," he replied. "That's the good news." The bad news? When I asked him for his estimate of how long the hard times will last, he told me: "Don't hold your breath. And don't buy new clothes."

[bobbyhawks]

Doomsday prognostications are just as popular now as were "the housing market isn't really in bad shape" prognostications a year and a half ago.

[jlbomega]

I still fail to see how, even if it were a myth, cutting carbon emissions and energy independence is a bad thing.

I completely agree with you.  The problem is we have allowed other, more significant environmental challenges get mucked up in this meaningless debate over global warming.  We can frame the debate on dwindling natural resources, fresh water, and clean air and achieve the same goals global warming/climate change hacks are after. 

[staubio]

I completely agree with you.  The problem is we have allowed other, more significant environmental challenges get mucked up in this meaningless debate over global warming.  We can frame the debate on dwindling natural resources, fresh water, and clean air and achieve the same goals global warming/climate change hacks are after. 

While I can't agree that global warming is "meaningless," I do agree with you that we are losing sight of other important issues with the exposure that global warming is getting.

[KCMax]

Doomsday prognostications are just as popular now as were "the housing market isn't really in bad shape" prognostications a year and a half ago.

I initially thought you were talking about economic doomsday prognostications, which I was going to agree with. Very overrated. But you could say the same for environmental doomsday prognostications. I believe global warming is real, can have negative effects, and that we should do more in general to clean up this earth, but I think Al Gore's techniques aren't that different from Bush's to get us to go to war - fudging the facts and FUD.

[bobbyhawks]

I initially thought you were talking about economic doomsday prognostications, which I was going to agree with. Very overrated. But you could say the same for environmental doomsday prognostications. I believe global warming is real, can have negative effects, and that we should do more in general to clean up this earth, but I think Al Gore's techniques aren't that different from Bush's to get us to go to war - fudging the facts and FUD.

I was referring to the economic situation, but I think that Gore's techniques are far more warranted than were Bush's.  First of all, Gore made a movie which has no consequences other than to get a large portion of people in the US concerned about carbon emissions for the first time ever.  A lie in his movie doesn't end up changing the lives of millions of people in the Middle East (unless we achieve energy independence).  From my perspective, the greatest thing Gore was able to do was create awareness for a problem that does truly exist, and now we must find some way to spend that awareness capital as with AIDS awareness, etc.  How much of a problem is global warming?  That is debatable, and I see where people may choose to take issue with Gore's tactics to that end, but people forget how little national environmentalist will there was prior to that movie.  We had a passing fad around Earth Day in the late 80's to early 90's when people first started to recycle anything, but over the 15 or so years following Bette Midler's portrayal of mother Earth on live TV, very little changed, the all electric car vanished, glass was taken out of most/many recycling programs and carbon emissions continued to skyrocket.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Remember those budget surpluses from the Clinton era?

Surpluses in name only.  The overall debt of the federal government also increased during all of the Clinton years.  The surpluses came from the so-called various Trust Funds (Social Security, Medicare, Highways, Airports, etc.).  The federal general fund borrowed from these various Trust Funds to meet the growing expenditure demands of the expanding federal government.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Some insight from one of my financial advisors:

WE ARE NOT ALONE!
No, we are not being visited by UFO’s.  However we certainly have some economic company across the pond.  Investors Business Daily reports that Britain fell deeply into a recession in the fourth quarter of 2008 as it’s economy shrunk by 1.5%.  That represents a 6% annual rate of decline, and the worst they have seen since 1980.  Even more alarming are the numbers being discussed in relation to their banking system, which was once among the worlds most respected.  To put it plainly, they are likely near insolvency.  Their liabilities now total more than four times Britain’s total GDP.  The pound has also taken an extreme beating versus the dollar over the last six months going from $2 back in mid 2008 to around $1.35 today.  Not good news for Britain, but good news for you if you have planned a trip there.  Ultimately though, the broader lesson for the US from Britain’s Ills is on the recovery front, even if the news is not what many want to hear.  Britain has outspent the US in trying to get its economy rolling again.  It has put more capital as a share of its economy into its banks, and has spent lavishly on Keynesian stimulus.  IT HASN’T WORKED! 

So what’s the take-away from all this?  Simple:  While all the money being thrown at the problems in our country may have a short term effect this year, do NOT get fooled.  The problem is not one that can be fixed by throwing money at it, and it will take time, (generally 5-10 YEARS) before things are back to what we consider “normal” again.  The rules have changed, and a new playbook is required.  So hang in there, understand the volatility for what it is (the markets separating the wheat from the chaff), and maybe take a little solace in the fact that……….we really aren’t alone.

[phxcat]

it's all false.  time is a lie.  i saw it on the internet.

http://www.timecube.com/

Wow- I made the mistake of being entertained by the absolute lunacy of that website and reading on below the plea for donations.

[Slappy the Wang]

Some insight from one of my financial advisors:

WE ARE NOT ALONE!
No, we are not being visited by UFO’s.  However we certainly have some economic company across the pond.  Investors Business Daily reports that Britain fell deeply into a recession in the fourth quarter of 2008 as it’s economy shrunk by 1.5%.  That represents a 6% annual rate of decline, and the worst they have seen since 1980.  Even more alarming are the numbers being discussed in relation to their banking system, which was once among the worlds most respected.  To put it plainly, they are likely near insolvency.  Their liabilities now total more than four times Britain’s total GDP.  The pound has also taken an extreme beating versus the dollar over the last six months going from $2 back in mid 2008 to around $1.35 today.  Not good news for Britain, but good news for you if you have planned a trip there.  Ultimately though, the broader lesson for the US from Britain’s Ills is on the recovery front, even if the news is not what many want to hear.  Britain has outspent the US in trying to get its economy rolling again.  It has put more capital as a share of its economy into its banks, and has spent lavishly on Keynesian stimulus.  IT HASN’T WORKED! 

So what’s the take-away from all this?  Simple:  While all the money being thrown at the problems in our country may have a short term effect this year, do NOT get fooled.  The problem is not one that can be fixed by throwing money at it, and it will take time, (generally 5-10 YEARS) before things are back to what we consider “normal” again.  The rules have changed, and a new playbook is required.  So hang in there, understand the volatility for what it is (the markets separating the wheat from the chaff), and maybe take a little solace in the fact that……….we really aren’t alone.

I agree and remember, the New Deal didn't completely relieve us from the Great Depression, WW2 and the manufacturing boom it inspired did.

[KCMax]

I agree and remember, the New Deal didn't completely relieve us from the Great Depression, WW2 and the manufacturing boom it inspired did.

And government spending after the war. The GI Bill was a huge boost to the economy.