KCMO Downtown Streetcar

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flyingember
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by flyingember »

chaglang wrote:The parking would be a nightmare for residents and businesses, and you're creating an E-W barrier across midtown. It sounds like SW Trafficway with streetcars. No thanks.
how would parking be a nightmare by sending people to a handful of parking garages and then on to use the streetcar? isn't that the exact goal of the line downtown? there already isn't parking ON Main in most places except on the weekends and on the weekend there's a huge number of underutilized lots then along the line.

yes, you want barriers. this is one thing Overland Park got right. you want to send all the traffic to a handful of E-W roads and not going into neighborhoods.

which already exist. i.e. 27th, 31st, Armour, 39th, 47th.

see Metcalf just north of 435 for this model.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by flyingember »

DaveKCMO wrote: one thing i can tell you is that the plan to expand will be designed to succeed, not to simply repeat previous failures.
ah, but to succeed at what? (and yes, I know that's part of making the plan)

there's everything from turning Main into a pedestrian plaza and just having the train (see downtown Minneapolis) all the way to putting in an elevated line (see Chicago)
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chaglang
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by chaglang »

flyingember wrote:
chaglang wrote:The parking would be a nightmare for residents and businesses, and you're creating an E-W barrier across midtown. It sounds like SW Trafficway with streetcars. No thanks.
how would parking be a nightmare by sending people to a handful of parking garages and then on to use the streetcar? isn't that the exact goal of the line downtown? there already isn't parking ON Main in most places except on the weekends and on the weekend there's a huge number of underutilized lots then along the line.

yes, you want barriers. this is one thing Overland Park got right. you want to send all the traffic to a handful of E-W roads and not going into neighborhoods.

which already exist. i.e. 27th, 31st, Armour, 39th, 47th.

see Metcalf just north of 435 for this model.
First of all, you never said anything about garages. You just said "push the traffic" onto the side streets", which is an entirely different concept. Though we're apparently talking about garages now, I still think it's a bad idea. The city isn't going to build any parking garages on Main or on adjacent streets. Midtown has changed enough in the last few years that doing something like that would be next to impossible. And although there are a handful of garages on Main, I don't think it's a good idea for the city to hinge their parking strategy on real estate they don't have control of.

And, no, I don't want barriers. If you live in the area, those little side streets are handy as hell. I use them all the time to avoid the no left turn intersections. The reason that most intersections on Main are no-left is because it ties up traffic. U-turns would be at least as bad. It's essentially the same manoever, except you also have to hope that people don't bungle it into a 3 point turn.

Metcalf just north of 435 never stuck me as a particularly easy place to navigate. You're also talking about a road that's much wider than Main.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by flyingember »

I get what you're saying, but adding transit would by necessity change the dynamic of the street. Look at how Main St downtown is going from 2 through lanes to 1 through lane for example. it's going to push more traffic onto other streets because of this.

through midtown there's already another through street 4 blocks over, Broadway, that can be the thru street and Gillham was designed to be a through parkway and it goes from hospital hill to 47th directly

4 blocks is not very far
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by DaveKCMO »

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/p ... ligns.html
Regardless of what mix of bonds and loans the city ultimately decides on, the money to repay the obligations will come from taxes imposed in the new Kansas City Downtown Streetcar Transportation Development District.

The TDD’s board, led by Matthew Staub in Kansas City Mayor Sly James’ place, decided at a Dec. 17 meeting to set property assessments at the maximum allowable rate for now. The board will review rates each year, Staub said, though Queen said the assessment likely will remain at the maximum rate through the beginning of the streetcar line’s operations in 2015.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by flyingember »

Is there an official name for the streetcar system yet?
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by DaveKCMO »

flyingember wrote:Is there an official name for the streetcar system yet?
no.

separately:

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... ns-in.html
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by DaveKCMO »

what color do you think it should be?
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

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Midtownkid
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by Midtownkid »

Streamline, all stainless steal (or made to look that way) would be awesome. A nod to KC's Deco heritage.

Image
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by smh »

DaveKCMO wrote:what color do you think it should be?
I could see a green like the streetcar supporter badges. Really any color, but I agree it would be nice if it could be some distinctive hue. Or glitter paint.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by chingon »

I sure hope its some clever and completely unwieldy acronym with an immediately dated logo that implies "movement".
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by Zorobabel »

Midtownkid wrote:Streamline, all stainless steal (or made to look that way) would be awesome. A nod to KC's Deco heritage.

Image
Yes, please!
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

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IraGlacialis
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by IraGlacialis »

Aluminum/stainless steel clad would definitely be awesome. Bonus points if it is shaped along the lines of the Pioneer Zephyr, which did have regular service to KC
pash wrote: It would look terrible if they plaster ads and logos all over it, though.
I dunno, it could possibly be pulled-off if the ads were adapted to have an early/mid-20th century look.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by flyingember »

phase 2:

I got a copy of the final order for the NKC light rail district formation back in 2009. Knowing the name let me search and there doesn't appear to have been any case filed to dissolve the district since then, but I wouldn't trust my search for that determination. it may be a legal entity just doing nothing.

This could make it really easy to extend the line north once the rest of the necessary funds have been located. It does appear the district would have to be changed because the wording is specific to the light rail plan, I don't know what that would take. If the district boundary and rates don't change but the scope of the project does would it need a vote or just a court order?
http://transitkc.com/?p=299 the wording is here

here's the name to search for in casenet
NORTH KANSAS CITY MO LIGHT RAIL TRANSPORTATION DEVELOPMENT
case 08cy-cv07207
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by DaveKCMO »

most missouri TDDs aren't changed -- because you need to go back to the same voters for permission, which costs the same -- they are usually dissolved and recreated. NKC never created a TDD board to impose the sales tax, so there is no money being collected. you're correct about the language needing to change.

one thing to note on the NKC TDD is that its boundaries were the same as an existing political subdivision (the city itself), so voters didn't need to apply for ballot to prove they were inside the district.

separately, even a live election for the streetcar TDD would have required an application, so all of these assumptions about dramatically increased turnout on a live election have little basis in fact. a simple call to the circuit court administrator would have confirmed that. those same detractors couldn't prove turnout downballot, which is where the TDD questions would have gone (and possibly even a separate ballot since the district crossed precincts).
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by flyingember »

they met because the court ruling over the TDD mandated it. I have a copy of that order.

my copy of the minutes of their first (and apparently only) meeting show their voting as far down the list as approving doing the work to form a budget, opening a bank account, picking an executive director and such

it looks that although they were authorized to do stuff they didn't actually do the tasks (no point) beyond picking out who was in charge. the former mayor was made the head of the board

NKC last time votes 1113 to 784. Since it does sound like a new district would need to form, I wonder how likely it is that the vote would be similar?
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by flyingember »

oh, and it looks like the 1/2 cent sales tax would have earned about $170K per year based on the 2010/11 budget of 2.6 million expected off 7.6 percent

good to have an educated starting point. there no way NKC could go it alone.

edit: my math is wrong and the rate is wrong. NKC doesn't get all 6.725%
the county is 5.225% which would make the NKC portion 1.5%?

that would be 860K per year from 1/2%

Or 21 million over 25 years.
that's not too shabby, but still not enough
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