KCRag Forum

Gomers has plenty of spaces. The lot is just designed badly so they are kind of close to each other. Most people are at a liquor store for less than 20 minutes. Not sure why they think they need more parking.

alejandro46 wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 10:15 pm Gomers has plenty of spaces. The lot is just designed badly so they are kind of close to each other. Most people are at a liquor store for less than 20 minutes. Not sure why they think they need more parking.

If they expand onto their current parking lot, that may be under the required number of spaces.

chaglang wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 8:26 pm Presumably they would have to follow the boulevards design standards.

Wasn’t their current building rebuilt not too long ago or was that a remodel? What type of boulevard standards are there that could help make this an improvement rather than further strip mall standards?

The building predates the boulevards design standards.

https://library.municode.com/mo/kansas_ ... -323BOPAST

chaglang wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 9:17 am The building predates the boulevards design standards.

https://library.municode.com/mo/kansas_ ... -323BOPAST

When were those put in place? The original building was torn down and replaced with the current beige garbage in 2011.

2015-2016, according to the ordinance numbers.

If Gomer's successfully removes its (not old) building, which replaced an older, conforming building, then, like magic:

39th and Broadway will have lost all four of its urbanized corners. Fully Suburbanized (Ironic smiley)

All four corners were all in place in 1980. The fast food with drive-through was the first culprit, on the southwest corner. I want to say 1985. You could hear the loudspeaker from two blocks away, it was that loud.

Then, in 1988, a narrow apartment structure, odd-shaped, was demolished on the southeast corner, leaving the L-shaped mid-century structure that survived much longer, but did not abut the corner (a billboard replaced the building)

In 1990, Tobler's Flowers and other structures gave way to the suburban Walgreens on the northeast corner. You can catch a glimpse of its interior in the 1989 major motion picture, Mr. and Mrs. Bridge.

And now in 2022, Gomer's will pave over the northwest corner of this once urban Kansas City intersection.

So I went to the presentation the Gomers people did tonight. It's a definite double down on the current form of the building, with the only entrance facing the parking lot. Additionally windows will be not transparent, in contravention to the boulevard standards, for which they are trying to get a variance. The east door facing Broadway is strictly a service entrance and fire exit. No entrance from the street. When challenged on why not have a street facing entrance and why not have transparent windows the reason given was issues with the grade, that an east entrance could not be made ADA accessible and the windows would not line up properly. Under this plan the Broadway Butcher will be relocate to the building next door, and the inactive green space next to that will become outdoor seating and the butcher will start selling some prepared food.

Basically the line from this guy was parking, parking, parking. The net number of spots will not be significantly different, and the two parking lots would be graded and combined together instead of separated by a retaining wall. So basically he wants a "nicer" setup for parking while expanding the building. The number of spots isn't really driving this. The one valid point was that the curb cut on Broadway was so close to the 39th street intersection that it was dangerous and sub optimal. Point well taken but I'm not exactly going to applaud trading one shitty curb cut for a slightly less shitty one. All in all it's not exactly going change much about that corner, except losing the nice street oriented retail stall of the Broadway Butcher. Gomers will still reject the corner as it does now. But Gomers will be more entrenched with it's bad design on what should be a really important urban corner.

The owner kept diverting to the problem of the "street people" as he called them and identified the bus stop as "the problem." Complained ad nauseam about having his building graffitied. I understand that is frustrating and also that corner in particular can attract some unsavory loitering but it didn't seem to cross his mind that putting windows that employees and customers can see out of and an entrance facing the street might have the affect of discouraging that activity instead of presenting a blank brick canvas to the street that is unable to be monitored or seen in anyway from inside the building. When it comes down to it, his focus on the "street people" revealed the real reason in my opinion that a street facing entrance is not in the cards. Not engineering challenges with the grade as claimed, those could certainly be overcome if there was a will to do so. Basically they would rather keep their back turned rather than serving as eyes on the street. Need to send this guy a copy of Jane Jacobs. His problem getting graffitied will only continue.

Would be OK if the proposed building were rotated along Broadway and parking access from Washington. But if the 'street people' are the 'problem', Gomers should move.

Um. The original building had an entry that was almost on the sidewalk at Broadway. The ambient nonsense at that intersection hasn't changed in years. Gomer's was always being graffitied, always dealing with the bus stop, always dealing with "street people". If their 2011 building design was a response to those things, it's fair to say that that response has been a complete failure. So it's absolutely fair to question a design that walls the store off from Broadway, because there's no indication that it will do anything to solve the issues that the owner has identified.

earthling wrote: ↑Thu May 26, 2022 7:00 am Would be OK if the proposed building were rotated along Broadway and parking access from Washington. But if the 'street people' are the 'problem', Gomers should move.

It was also questioned in the meeting why the expansion couldn't form an L shape and have access only from Washington. The reply was the city traffic people didn't like that idea, which maybe, but I held that response with a bit of skepticism.

Broadway should have all future development with no direct car street access when possible, Main as well. Both from traffic and pedestrian perspective. Should be on the City plan for Bway.

Seems that the city traffic people would like a curb cut on Broadway even less.

From experience:
1. KCMO traffic engineers and Land Development don't like much of anything.
2. With a halfway decent rationale, you can get a project approved over their complaints.

The L-shape building would still have a floor level problem with relation to Broadway. However, there's NO requirement that a Broadway entrance to the building would need to be ADA compliant if the entry on Washington is. A door onto Broadway and small set of stairs would work.

Graffiti has been a problem for decades. My father's architectural office was on that corner, and before his building, he and Earl Salyers shared a house not far from that corner.

The city didn't enforce zoning "tagging" clean-up until they took graffiti off the police response list sometime around 1992. Before that time, the city actually cleaned up graffiti on private buildings (or more likely contracted with someone). In the early 1990s, the whole city response to graffiti changed (yes, I wrote another letter to Mayor Cleaver about that as well). There was a police chief change at that time, that I think had more to do with this than Cleaver replacing Berkley

Despite this KCMO change for the worse, which IMHO increased tolerance for graffiti throughout town, the overall Jane Jacobs approach remains correct. Vigilance aka "eyes on the street" is the best prophylaxis for street problems, like taggers or broken windows.

any idea if this will be rejected, as it should be? liquor stores are a dime a dozen, and the building is more replaceable by design and function standards.

Is the old IHOP at Linwood coming down?

moderne wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 4:05 pm Is the old IHOP at Linwood coming down?

Something is going on, there is a construction fence up. I'd imagine it's going away. The horribly named 'P. More and More' BBQ place didn't last.

I suppose we will see a parking lot or empty lot there soon.

It’s coming down. Looked to be at least halfway demolished this evening.

Midtownkid wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 4:29 pm

moderne wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 4:05 pm Is the old IHOP at Linwood coming down?

Something is going on, there is a construction fence up. I'd imagine it's going away. The horribly named 'P. More and More' BBQ place didn't last.

I suppose we will see a parking lot or empty lot there soon.

It's a tiny space so additional parking for the Comfort Inn is likely. That's one ugly hotel.

First, I want to point out that my dream from the original post in the thread came true! The Spanish-style commercial building that houses Chez Charlie was fully restored on the exterior to look as it originally did. It has really good bones and I'm glad the owner decided to do this. They deserve a reward!

Midtownkid wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:09 pm Broadway between Valentine and 39th (or Armour to the Westport really) is prime for redevelopment. This should be a really nice, safe Boulevard full of pedestrian oriented retail and restaurants.

One building that I think is in much need of a restoration is this one. It houses Chez Charlie, a really great dive bar that I would want to be retained (vintage interior and all).

The building has been covered in ugly siding and its tile roof has been replaced with plain shingles.



Some of the building's details are still viable here



Here is how it once looked: