What's happening? will Downtown pull out of this funk?

Post by **mean** » Mon Jun 23, 2003 7:50 am

I concur. All the things I want for downtown, from arenas to massive skyscrapers, should be a result of the area's success rather than a result of the area's failure.

QueSi2Opie · Post by **QueSi2Opie** » Mon Jun 23, 2003 4:35 pm

For one, I don't think Pheonix was a city which ever had a thriving downtown. You need downtown housing...a downtown ballpark or arena jus' adds to the tourist and suburban draw element. Yes, it's nice to jus' have housing downtown because it creates a vibrant neighborhood, but the great thing about visiting other cities is that there downtown's are a destination. We might as well not support an Arena, Performing Arts Center, Bartle Ballroom, etc. if we were goin' to be chicken $hit and live by the "Pheonix example".

phxcat · Post by **phxcat** » Mon Jun 23, 2003 7:22 pm

Oh, I'm not suggesting for a second we go by the "Phoenix example". I only use it because I can easiuly make comparisons. The only thing they have over us is that people move here in droves, and that is because of the weather and the proximity to Mexico.

I think that they were trying to create a downtown out of nothing with the ballpark and arena, and not much has come from it. I was looking for a similar discussion board for Phoenix, to see if there was anyone who could give me some tips for finding dowtown houseing, but I don't think many people here care. In fact, the Coyotes and Cardinals are bothing moving to Glendale, out on the 101, (The Coyotes are moving out of America West, and the Cardinals from Tempe) and I don't think anyone minds, except the people on the east side that have to drivce farther. You are right, though, that a stadium would be something to get people downtown- we just need other things to keep them there. What Phoenix does show is that a stadium alone will not do the trick.

By the way, if you come down here, you will be shocked and amazed at how little there is downtown. In fact, parts of it are more comparable to Corporate Woods than dowtown KCMO.

Post by **dangerboy** » Mon Jun 23, 2003 8:59 pm

Is anyone here saying that an arena/stadium alone will save Downtown? If they are then I must have missed it. People keep arguing against that idea, but have yet to see anyone actually argue for it. Opponents are arguing against an idea that proponents aren't even advocating.

Let's look at the big picture - Ultimately any successful downtown needs many things: residents, businesses and headquarters, arts and cultural institutions, restaurants and bars, public spaces, convention facilities, and sports facilities. No single item can save or doom a downtown, except for maybe residents. However, the more components we have the more successful Downtown will be.

An arena or stadium won't save Downtown, but without them Downtown won't be as successful as it can and should be.

QueSi2Opie · Post by **QueSi2Opie** » Mon Jun 23, 2003 9:02 pm

phxcat wrote:Oh, I'm not suggesting for a second we go by the "Phoenix example".

Oh no, I didn't think you were

I'm jus' sayin' we need to build more attractions as well as housing...both are key to a great downtown.

eliphar17 · Post by **eliphar17** » Mon Jun 23, 2003 10:07 pm

It seems like there's a consensus that housing is the foundation of a healthy downtown, and by all indications, K.C.'s downtown housing market is on fire. What that means to me is that we will very soon be able to build things like an arena and a performing arts center, not with the hope that they alone will revive downtown, but with the assurance that they are well-deserved amenities. We will not be building them with the motto of "Build it and they will come." Our motto will be, "Build it because they are already there."

Post by **bahua** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 8:54 pm

Such civic luxuries are the fruits of prosperity, and nobody needs to push them, if they really will work. They will materialize, like grocery stores and restaurants. The last thing we need is developers leveraging the city for funds to build something, when the city is already hemmorhaging money.

The real economic successes in this or any city come from private investment, not public.

QueSi2Opie · Post by **QueSi2Opie** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 10:27 pm

bahua wrote:The real economic successes in this or any city come from private investment, not public.

Unfortunately, in this day and age these investments won't materialize unless the city funds them or gives away free land and 25-year tax breaks. I don't think this is jus' common for KC, but for many cities across the nation. Besides, I'm tired of waitin' while other cities continue to get ahead!

KCN · Post by **KCN** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 11:49 pm

Key to a successful downtown: residents residents residents! And look at how many lofts are popping up. The demand for downtown living is astonishing. THIS is the key to reviving our downtown, and the ball is just starting to roll. Tall buildings and arenas are cool and all, but let's focus on getting the abandoned ones filled w/ people first.

Get people living downtown --> increase retail --> increase visitors --> more money to KCMO --> build more buildings and arenas --> put downtown KC back on the map

Post by **bahua** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 7:24 am

QueSi2Opie wrote:Unfortunately, in this day and age these investments won't materialize unless the city funds them or gives away free land and 25-year tax breaks.

I hardly consider giving people and companies tax breaks "funding them." It's more like desisting in theft.

I was referring to proposing tax _increases_ on city residents to fund these projects.

QueSi2Opie · Post by **QueSi2Opie** » Sun Jun 29, 2003 8:37 am

As long as we don't build an arena with the thought that retail will follow. I'd like to see the arena come in a bigger package that includes an retail/entertainment district.

Post by **dangerboy** » Sun Jun 29, 2003 8:02 pm

QueSi2Opie wrote:As long as we don't build an arena with the thought that retail will follow. I'd like to see the arena come in a bigger package that includes an retail/entertainment district.

Yes, it most likely will be part of a bigger retail/entertainment district. This is eexcatly the idea that Mayor Barnes is proposing - that the revenue from the retail/entertainment will pay for the arena.

Post by **bahua** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 12:43 am

If that's what KWB is planning, then cool, but it's not what I've heard/read. What I have been seeing is plans for a cultural/performing arts center. This, while certainly a nice amenity for KC, does not complement an arena, and nor does an arena complement a performing arts center. They are both centerpieces of a night out, and mutually exclude each other.

What is needed, and what I hope dangerboy is talking about, is tax and zoning encouragement by the city for bars, shops, restaurants, etc. to open in close proximity to the new projects.

What has always punctuated a great city is how fun it is to hang out there after dark, in my opinion.