TSC Renovations

[Maitre D]

I'm not backpeddling about anything....

Yes you did.

[kcdcchef]

You're backpedaling a bit, but yeah, I would agree there.

No NFL team gets 10K anyway, so the point was kinda moot to begin with.

detroit and arizona have both pulled off crowds of less then 20k in the last several years. below 10? no. under 20, which, is fucken pathetic? yes.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Interesting article found on msn.

http://famulus.msnbc.com/famulusspt/ap0 ... 1120062234

and a quote from it.

Other parks — even the new ones — have to work a little harder.
      After taking plenty of grief for a bland outfield concourse and upper-deck seats so steep they came with a nosebleed, the Chicago White Sox overhauled their 15-year-old park as much as they could without blowing it up. In the last six years, they've taken eight rows off the upper deck and replaced the ugly slanting roof with a cozy flat one. They transformed the boring concourse, and last year put in a three-story children's area complete with batting cages and a mini diamond.
      After Jacobs Field turned 10 in 2004, the Cleveland Indians added two sections of bleachers along with a new scoreboard. Last year, they put in a bar that serves high-end drinks such as martinis and cosmopolitans.
      ''Who'd have thought you'd want a Caesar salad and Evian water or sushi in Cleveland? But that's what fans want,'' DiBiasio said. ''Fans' tastes are more sophisticated, and we need to react to that.''
      Brand-new ballparks aren't immune to change, either. Citizens Bank Park is only 2 years old, but the Phillies already have moved the left-field wall, added new menu items and put in kiosks where fans can play video games.

[kcdcchef]

Interesting article found on msn.

http://famulus.msnbc.com/famulusspt/ap0 ... 1120062234

and a quote from it.

Other parks — even the new ones — have to work a little harder.
       After taking plenty of grief for a bland outfield concourse and upper-deck seats so steep they came with a nosebleed, the Chicago White Sox overhauled their 15-year-old park as much as they could without blowing it up. In the last six years, they've taken eight rows off the upper deck and replaced the ugly slanting roof with a cozy flat one. They transformed the boring concourse, and last year put in a three-story children's area complete with batting cages and a mini diamond.
       After Jacobs Field turned 10 in 2004, the Cleveland Indians added two sections of bleachers along with a new scoreboard. Last year, they put in a bar that serves high-end drinks such as martinis and cosmopolitans.
       ''Who'd have thought you'd want a Caesar salad and Evian water or sushi in Cleveland? But that's what fans want,'' DiBiasio said. ''Fans' tastes are more sophisticated, and we need to react to that.''
       Brand-new ballparks aren't immune to change, either. Citizens Bank Park is only 2 years old, but the Phillies already have moved the left-field wall, added new menu items and put in kiosks where fans can play video games.

i thought only older stadiums like kauffman got remodeled? and according to this forum akp, newer ones would not need work for 30 years.

intresting.

[Maitre D]

detroit and arizona have both pulled off crowds of less then 20k in the last several years. below 10? no. under 20, which, is fucken pathetic? yes.

So you're basically agreeing with me then?

I think that's what's going on, but i can never be sure with you.

[kcdcchef]

So you're basically agreeing with me then?

I think that's what's going on, but i can never be sure with you.

am i agreeing with you ppa? no.

[Burton]

Interesting article found on msn.

http://famulus.msnbc.com/famulusspt/ap0 ... 1120062234

and a quote from it.

Other parks — even the new ones — have to work a little harder.
       After taking plenty of grief for a bland outfield concourse and upper-deck seats so steep they came with a nosebleed, the Chicago White Sox overhauled their 15-year-old park as much as they could without blowing it up. In the last six years, they've taken eight rows off the upper deck and replaced the ugly slanting roof with a cozy flat one. They transformed the boring concourse, and last year put in a three-story children's area complete with batting cages and a mini diamond.

Yep, they got everything that Kauffman is getting for 180 million dollars less.











And the public didn't pay one penny for the renovations.

[kcdcchef]

And the public didn't pay one penny for the renovations.

no. they just paid to build the whole damn stadium.

[Burton]

no. they just paid to build the whole damn stadium.

I don't know what that has to do with renovations, but whatever.
Comiskey (US Cellular) was 167 million new, still less than what we're paying for the Kauffman renovations. And it was financed by a 2% hotel tax, so unless "they" is referring to out-of-towners using the hotels, Chicagoians got a pretty sweet deal in 1988 and 2001.

[kcdcchef]

I don't know what that has to do with renovations, but whatever.
Comiskey (US Cellular) was 167 million new, still less than what we're paying for the Kauffman renovations. And it was financed by a 2% hotel tax, so unless "they" is referring to out-of-towners using the hotels, Chicagoians got a pretty sweet deal in 1988 and 2001.

either way, the stadium was built for FREE to the team. and 167m in 1988 dollars, come on, why even compare that to now burton?? 225m now versus 167m 18 years ago, sounds pretty level to me.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Comiskey (US Cellular) was 167 million new, still less than what we're paying for the Kauffman renovations.

And I use to buy a 5 pack of gum for $.05.  A full size candy bar for $.05.  So on and so on.  Don't compare prices from even 5 years ago to now or the near future.  Prices change.

[Burton]

And I use to buy a 5 pack of gum for $.05.  A full size candy bar for $.05.  So on and so on.  Don't compare prices from even 5 years ago to now or the near future.  Prices change.

Inflation Adjustment (http://www.westegg.com/inflation/)...
"What cost $165000000 in 1991 would cost $232837601.97 in 2005."

Happy now?

I don't see anything wrong in comparing prices of stadiums when one stadium completely overhauls for only 68 million, and another wants to do it for 250 million dollars. Chicago got a brand new stadium in 91 for an inflation adjusted cost of almost exactly what it's costing us to renovate. And it costed them about 180 million dollars less than us to do pretty much the exact same renovations that we're getting.

The point I'm trying to make is that we're getting screwed over BIG TIME on this financially. I'm hoping that you and Chef can at least acknowledge this.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Inflation Adjustment (http://www.westegg.com/inflation/)...
"What cost $165000000 in 1991 would cost $232837601.97 in 2005."

The point I'm trying to make is that we're getting screwed over BIG TIME on this financially. I'm hoping that you and Chef can at least acknowledge this.

There are different types of inflation.  CPI is just one of them.  And the CPI can have regional variances.  There is a separate inflation index for construction.
And let's see.  This is 2006, not 2005 and the construction will occur in future years so costs should be higher than in 2005.

And, NO, we are not getting screwed over BIG TIME on this.  We would be getting screwed over BIG, BIG TIME if we were building a new stadium at this time.

[Burton]

There are different types of inflation.  CPI is just one of them.  And the CPI can have regional variances.  There is a separate inflation index for construction.
And let's see.  This is 2006, not 2005 and the construction will occur in future years so costs should be higher than in 2005.

Ok thanks for the economics lesson.

And, NO, we are not getting screwed over BIG TIME on this.  We would be getting screwed over BIG, BIG TIME if we were building a new stadium at this time.

Seriously? Do I need to make a list about the Public vs. Private financing percentages for you???
Just look across the state...
St. Louis: PUBLIC FINANCING = 45 million
                PRIVATE FINANCING = 320 million
Competent ownership. Playoff bound. Stadium lilteraly sold out for the entire season.

Kansas City: PUBLIC FINANCING = 225 million
                    PRIVATE FINANCING = 25 million
Inept ownership. Perennial cellar dwellers. Attendance likely to still be under 25,000 average.

Is this not ass backwards to you?

[AF]

No surprise, HOK will do the renovations.

http://kansascity.bizjournals.com/kansa ... tory2.html

[AllThingsKC]

No surprise, HOK will do the renovations.

http://kansascity.bizjournals.com/kansa ... tory2.html

At least they're keeping local, unlike the Sprint Center.

[DowntownBryan]

HOK still designed the sprint center...mortensen is just building it

[DowntownBryan]

has there been any more renderings of the K since its been official. ive seen the preliminaries, but have they came out with any in the past month or two?

[warwickland]

Ok thanks for the economics lesson.

Seriously? Do I need to make a list about the Public vs. Private financing percentages for you???
Just look across the state...
St. Louis: PUBLIC FINANCING = 45 million
                PRIVATE FINANCING = 320 million
Competent ownership. Playoff bound. Stadium lilteraly sold out for the entire season.

Kansas City: PUBLIC FINANCING = 225 million
                     PRIVATE FINANCING = 25 million
Inept ownership. Perennial cellar dwellers. Attendance likely to still be under 25,000 average.

Is this not ass backwards to you?

don't reason with the troll, burton.

i spent the weekend listening to st. louisans make fun of the general team/ stadium "situation" in kc.

anyway, i'm never going to step foot onto the grounds of the truman sports complex ever again.

[aknowledgeableperson]

anyway, i'm never going to step foot onto the grounds of the truman sports complex ever again.

Is that a promise?????????????????????????????????????????????

I don't think you will be missed.