Questions about Bistate II

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:57 pm

pittsburghparoyal wrote:
trailerkid wrote:If you want to assert how powerful Jo Co and its Panera bucks are in the metro try stop going to KCMO or Missouri, don't go to the Plaza, don't go downtown, don't go to the zoo, don't go to Chiefs, don't go to Royals, don't go to Worlds of Fun, don't go to KCI, don't go to the casinos, don't drive on MO roadways...

Don't be so sure. The TSC has nothing but a string of cars headed back to JOCO on game days, and I can only imagine what the other institutions of KCMO would do w/o JOCO money.

(Like, build an arena. No KCMO firm stepped up with teh bucks)

Believe it or not, but KC will go on without you.
You sure about that? Ask Union Station if that's accurate.

I'm asking you to organize your Jo Co minions to boycott KCMO, Missouri and all its attractions. I'd like to see how well you can keep your money out of Missouri and KCMO.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:06 pm

the metro wouldn't do as well if you chopped off Blue Springs, Independence, or the north of the river burbs.....it's a silly argument PA. The metro did just fine when you weren't living here....it will continue to grow and prosper....together.

Seperating yourself out thinking you area of the city or demographic is more important is arrogant and simply untrue.

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:11 pm

KCPowercat wrote:the metro wouldn't do as well if you chopped off Blue Springs, Independence, or the north of the river burbs.....it's a silly argument PA. The metro did just fine when you weren't living here....it will continue to grow and prosper....together.

Seperating yourself out thinking you area of the city or demographic is more important is arrogant and simply untrue.

My point is that puffing your chest about your 'burb or whatever is just shooting yourself in the foot, because without the Missouri side of the metro Johnson County has absolutely no attractions other than retail. As a county without the rest of the metro, what kind of quality of life can Jo Co offer? On the surface level, you wouldn't have the work force from Missouri and KCK to work in all your Targets and Super Wal-Marts, so there!

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:17 pm

Obviously no burbs would be here without the city. The city would survive w/o a particular burb....w/o say Blue Springs, those people would instead just live in North KC or Indepedence or Overland Park, they don't just simply go away.

Maitre D · Post by **Maitre D** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:19 pm

I really disagree, KCP. I don't think the Royals or Chiefs would be here if JoCo suddenly disappeared.

Teh city would not do fine w/o it. And I'm not a big JoCo guy anyway, really I'm not. Plaza's too pricey for me, so I can't live there. But JoCo is the economic driver of the city - even Baldwin talked openly of moving the Pens to an arena in JoCo....

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:24 pm

well obviously if 500k people with high median incomes just dropped off the face of the earth, things would be different. Like I said, no matter the burb. Take 150k for the northland, 150k from JoCo, and 200k from the eastern burbs and things change dramatically.

That just isn't feasible or even worth discussing. 500k aren't going to rise up and make their own city in SW Kansas. They would have no jobs or nothing to do. That's more of TK's point I believe.

Are parts of this metro make it what it is today....w/o one piece, the whole thing isn't as good.....yes even KCK.

GRID · Post by **GRID** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:26 pm

If KCMO was not here, Eastern Kansas would be nothing but a field, like the rest of the state. I trully belive that

.

ComandanteCero · Post by **ComandanteCero** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:31 pm

this discussion sounds like one of those chicken or the egg questions..... the suburbs developed out of KCMO, these days the suburbs do contain most of the economic activity of the metro area, but JOCO wouldn't have developed into a suburb without an urb to be a sub to. Either way, we should really figure out how to distribute that concentration of wealth across the metro region.... (as socialist and communistic as that may sound...)

GRID · Post by **GRID** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:34 pm

metro KC is in fact leveling out again. It has been all JoCo for twenty years, and now the urban core, eastern Jackson, Northland and others are all just a big a player as JoCo. In the next ten to twenty years, JoCo will become a secondary burb to the Northland anyway.

eliphar17 · Post by **eliphar17** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:43 pm

TK, no one is trying to say that JoCo owns KCMO or that JoCo could survive on its own. However, what I hear you saying pretty loud and clear is that KCMO can survive/prosper without JoCo, which is of course a ridiculous statement. I can't believe you would really want to see what happens if JoCo took up your challenge to stop supporting KCMO. (I'm beginning to imagine a nice TV commercial, with shots of a half-empty Arrowhead, a boarded-up terminal at KCI, signs all over the Zoo - "closed due to lack of funding", entire blocks of vacant stores on the Plaza, and oh yeah, packed parking lots at every strip mall south of Shawnee Mission Parkway. It's not pretty at all what happens when you turn your back on 1/4 of the metro.)

eliphar17 · Post by **eliphar17** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:46 pm

Ah, now that I see GRID's post, I would like to say I too would like to see that happen. Actually, I wish that no suburb had the kind of power I described over the core city. But I guess that takes better leadership than KCMO has had in the last five or six decades.

GRID · Post by **GRID** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:56 pm

Sure, if JoCo was not here, it would hurt KC, but if JoCo for some reason did not develop, do you seriously think that those people would not still be somewhere else in the metro?

The northland would have boomed 30 years sooner and 470 would look more like 270 in STL or 435 in JoCo.

Development goes to a path of least resistance and that is essentially what triggered the JoCo boom.

Maitre D · Post by **Maitre D** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:56 pm

GRID wrote:metro KC is in fact leveling out again. It has been all JoCo for twenty years, and now the urban core, eastern Jackson, Northland and others are all just a big a player as JoCo. In the next ten to twenty years, JoCo will become a secondary burb to the Northland anyway.

Explain. Lotsa McMansions out here. Lotsa high paying jobs out here. Lotsa nice golf courses et al. Close to KU. In Kansas. Nice roads. Great infrastructure (best in teh country? Seriously could be)

Explain.

GRID · Post by **GRID** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:59 pm

Sure, it's a job center, but you also have to wonder why my neighbors in BS choose to live in BS and commute to OP and it's not cause they can't afford JoCo.

JoCo has nice stuff because it has almost nothing to worry about other than schools and streets.

Do you really want to get into this? Not sure I want to.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:03 pm

KS and their pride in their roads....it's like a CVB selling point. I grew up in KS, I couldn't give a shit about the roads.

Lots of McMansions up north and out east now too...that's grid's point. before it was all in JoCo, now it's speading out.

Post by **dangerboy** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:49 am

pittsburghparoyal wrote:
GRID wrote:metro KC is in fact leveling out again. It has been all JoCo for twenty years, and now the urban core, eastern Jackson, Northland and others are all just a big a player as JoCo. In the next ten to twenty years, JoCo will become a secondary burb to the Northland anyway.
Explain. Lotsa McMansions out here. Lotsa high paying jobs out here. Lotsa nice golf courses et al. Close to KU. In Kansas. Nice roads. Great infrastructure (best in teh country? Seriously could be)

Explain.

The Northland is now the fastest growing suburb in terms of people. Eastern Jackson County is now the fastest in terms of retail. The Plaza is the healthiest office market. Downtown has the be most in demand housing market. Johnson County's era of unprecedented growth is coming to an end. Of course it will continue to be an important suburb and the second biggest employment center.

Instead most new stuff happening in the southwest, we are moving towards a healthy center surrounded by equal suburbs on all sides. The future will be more even around the metro, not lopsided like the 1980s and 1990s.

KC0KEK · Post by **KC0KEK** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:08 pm

KCPowercat wrote:KS and their pride in their roads....it's like a CVB selling point. I grew up in KS, I couldn't give a shit about the roads.

What's wrong with pride in infrastructure? And isn't KCMO -- and MO, for that matter -- perpetually self-conscious about the condition of its roads?

An anecdote: I've had the same CD player in my truck for the past decade. In that time, I've lived in Columbia, OP and now Fairway, and I drove to Chicago, STL, Indy, Cleveland and Syracuse, to name just a few places. The only places that my CD player has ever skipped were KCMO and on I-70 between KC and STL. That might not be the most accurate barometer, but I think it still speaks to the condition of the roads. A prime example is the right, eastbound lane of Ward Parkway in front of Russel Stover's HQ. It's like driving over some hillbilly's washboard.

Heck, Columbia's roads were every bit as good as JoCo's in terms of both pavement and snow-clearing.

Post by **dangerboy** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:15 pm

KC0KEK wrote:A prime example is the right, eastbound lane of Ward Parkway in front of Russel Stover's HQ. It's like driving over some hillbilly's washboard.

That was repaired at least six months ago.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:21 pm

well yes of course everybody would like better roads but it's like the #1 "bragging" point when these stupid debates come up. Roads? Seriously people.

KC0KEK · Post by **KC0KEK** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:22 pm

dangerboy wrote:
KC0KEK wrote:A prime example is the right, eastbound lane of Ward Parkway in front of Russel Stover's HQ. It's like driving over some hillbilly's washboard.
That was repaired at least six months ago.

It sure didn't seem that way when I drove over it two weeks ago.