KCRag Forum

True.

Phxcat, how does Phoenix compare to KC? I've never been there except the airport, but considering the growth rate -- 1 million-plus new residents in the 1990s -- there must be something drawing people. What is it? Jobs? Climate? Cost of living? All of the above?

Personally I jus' think it's whether or not the individual or family needs to leave the area. If people in the burbs have shopping centers, movie theaters, restaurants, golf courses, etc., their need to leave the area for this type of common entertainment and leisure is often unnecessary. Dining options are made easier when they have a Gate's BBQ (Leawood), Hereford House (Leawood), Fiorella's Jack Stack (Overland Park), KC Masterpiece (Overland Park), Stanford's Comedy House (Overland Park), Boulevard Brewery (Overland Park) and Manny's Mexican Restaurant(Stanley) in JOCO.
The only time someone from the burbs would need to travel outside their area is if they enjoy professional sports, amusement/water parks, performing arts/museums, casinos or need to get to the airport. To do all this, they can jus' stay on one of our many interstate highways until they reach their destination. But how often do many of you do this? Maybe some of you go to the zoo or the amusement park once a year, attend several professional games a season, hit the casino once in a while and possibly go check out the ballet/orchestra or an art gallery. While most of us on this forum jus' enjoy exploring our metropolitan area by foot, bike or automobile, we're really not that common.
Unfortunately, I've had conversations with people who live in Olathe that have been shopping more times on North Michigan Avenue in Chicago than at the Country Club Plaza. But let's not pick on those exclusively in the burbs for lack of area exploration, because I personally know individuals in the Historic Northeast of KCMO who were shocked to find out their was a place which looked like a city in itself (Corporate Woods) and that Oak Park Mall was such a nice shopping center. These people never had a reason to travel any further South than the Kansas City Zoo and Starlight Theater.

Since I've made my best effort to explore every section of our great city, I challenge everyone to take the time to explore JOCO this Spring (I hate ugly bare Winters w/out snow, plus many historical museums are seasonal). I'll even list the routes and attractions which will include Deanna Rose Farmstead, Overland Park Botanical Gardens & Aboretum, Mahaffie Stagecoach Stop & Farm House, Ernie Miller Nature Center, Leglar Barn Museum, Shawnee Mission Park, Johnson County Historical Museum and Old Shawnee Town. Also, if any of you own bicycles, some of the best trails in the metropolitan area are in this part of the metro. While I'll admit that it's ridiculous to build the same businesses every 16 blocks (119th, 135th, 151st) and matching houses along the interstate, there are some really beautiful sections of southern and western JOCO with unique new and old homes, historical sections, scenic drives and beautiful natural areas and topography.

For those of you who enjoy exploring the city, I suggest everyone pick up or purchase a Kansas City Metropolitan City Series map from AAA. The map is huge and covers all the way to Smithville/Kearney/Excelsior Springs to the North, Gardener/Raymore/Pleasant Hill to the South, Bonner Springs/Lansing/Leavenworth to the West and Oak Grove/Buckner to the East.

KCOKEK, Phoenix really doesn't compare with Kansas City. Except for the mountains, it is flat as a pancake and brown. (The mountains are pretty cool, though). The weather is good now, there is hardly ever any rain, but when it rains, it storms. The summer is hot, but it doesn't fele much worse than KC because of the humidity.

As for the city, it really seems like a huge Johnson County on steroids. There is no urban core, the downtown is very small for a city that size, and it seems kind of manufactured. The buildings are all new, and you don't have the grit that a good, old downtown should have. It seems like every section is the same- every mile there is a street with four to six lanes, and each mile, at least where I live, there is a Fry's grocery and a Jack in the Box. (After eating there a few times, I really don't get that!) There also isn't as much culture.

Some people seem to love it, others miss the city and the snow. I guess it depends on how much you like golf.

I'm with gridlock. This is getting off topic, but I love to drive around KC and explore different areas. It's neat to put a picture with the areas you always see on the map. KC is a city so spread out with so many different areas that you could literally live here years and not know about some of the attractions of this great town. We don't need no stinkin' Hard Rock.

No Hard Rock, but a Dave & Busters or Jillian's would be great!

Gameworks where Fitz's used to be......

this may be off topic but I saw D&B mentioned so that's my suggestion.

trailerkid wrote:I'm sure there are nice areas of Olathe, but you must realize the areas that everyone notices. To visitors and people in the metro...Olathe is 119th, Santa Fe, 151st. These "gateways" to Olathe are what give Jo Co the plastic prairie reputation. I'm glad that you're proud of Olathe and like it, but you must realize that the tucked away places are not noticable. Olathe's reputation is for tons of big box stores, highly suburban streets, and sprawling housing developments--that's what outsiders see.

If you want to base your opinion of Olathe only on what you see from the three major interstate accesses to the city that is OK by me.

I guess this is why the real appeal of the city is unknown to you and thousands of others that comment and or hold the same unspoken opinion w/o having spent any quality time looking for a house, visiting friends in the variety of neighborhoods and so forth.

I could make superficial comments based on observations taken from the more frequently traveled paths in and around several cities in the metro, but that would do nothing but demonstrate my lack of true objectivity regarding my final analysis of the fine communities spread across the KC Metro.

But it's all good. Perhaps one day you will be able to enjoy and take note along the way some of the more "non-plasticy" areas of Olathe and other parts of JoCo......that is if you ever emerge from the safety of Midtown.

KC0KEK wrote:I agree with Trailerkid's comments about "the areas that everyone notices," but I'd stretch the definition of "outsiders" to include people who have lived in metro KC for years yet apparently never venture outside of their corner. For example, on any given Monday, my wife tells her co-workers about some place in Gardner or Liberty or wherever that we visited over the weekend, and they haven't heard of the place.

We've lived in metro KC for only five years, and every day I'm more convinced that most people here -- particularly in JoCo -- never venture outside of their town. (I'm not criticizing, just stating an observation. I live in NE JoCo, by the way.) We actually know people who have lived here their whole lives and have never been to Metro North mall or Parkville -- or even know where they are.

Has anybody else noticed this?

Yes, I have noticed this......and I am one of those people that have been around a while (since 88 ) and have not visited more than 30% of the metro.

I have had the pleasure in recent years to drive through some great, previously unkown locations of this area and have been grateful for it.

Maplewoods CC may as well have been the moon to me before 1998, but that year, I spent the day there taking the all day Hunter safety course. That afforded me the opportunity to realize that real, air breathing human beings call "north of the river" home. What a revelation.

Raytown
Blue Spgs
Grandview
Belton
Martin City
PV
Metro North Mall
Independence
Winner Road corridor
18th and Vine District
Southwest Blvd

are all locales that I first spent time in within the last 3 years. Great places....all different with different ambience and way of life. Very cool.

It would suck if everyone lived like Downtowners, Midtowners, or suburbanites. Variety is key. I like all three of the above and what they have to offer.

KCgridlock wrote:of the city. Most JoCo people don't even know there is so much stuff in the Nortland or out east, (you think it's cause they think they live in perfect land and there is no reason to leave?) I do.

I love where I live, but don't consider it the perfect place to live. I'm not naive enough to believe Olathe is the only place in the metro which would offer a great way of life. But I have set my roots here and thus am unwilling to just shuffle off for the sake of seeing if the grass is really greener on the other side of the fence.

QueSi2Opie wrote:Since I've made my best effort to explore every section of our great city, I challenge everyone to take the time to explore JOCO this Spring (I hate ugly bare Winters w/out snow, plus many historical museums are seasonal). I'll even list the routes and attractions which will include Deanna Rose Farmstead, Overland Park Botanical Gardens & Aboretum, Mahaffie Stagecoach Stop & Farm House, Ernie Miller Nature Center, Leglar Barn Museum, Shawnee Mission Park, Johnson County Historical Museum and Old Shawnee Town. Also, if any of you own bicycles, some of the best trails in the metropolitan area are in this part of the metro. While I'll admit that it's ridiculous to build the same businesses every 16 blocks (119th, 135th, 151st) and matching houses along the interstate, there are some really beautiful sections of southern and western JOCO with unique new and old homes, historical sections, scenic drives and beautiful natural areas and topography.

For those of you who enjoy exploring the city, I suggest everyone pick up or purchase a Kansas City Metropolitan City Series map from AAA. The map is huge and covers all the way to Smithville/Kearney/Excelsior Springs to the North, Gardener/Raymore/Pleasant Hill to the South, Bonner Springs/Lansing/Leavenworth to the West and Oak Grove/Buckner to the East.

Excellent challenge!

I would like to briefly address the following statement:

QueSi2Opie wrote:While I'll admit that it's ridiculous to build the same businesses every 16 blocks (119th, 135th, 151st) and matching houses along the interstate,...

Contrary to popular belief, the "same businesses" are not being built at each intersection mentioned. In fact, Santa Fe (135th and I-35) has remained virtually unchanged to the NW, SW and SE since I moved to Olathe nearly 15 years ago. The major changes to that intersection have been as a result of KDOT "remodeling" the intersection.

Other than that, there has been little to no business related construction either noticeable from the freeway or from Santa Fe itsself.

NW: Denny's, Hallmark Inn, Grass Pad, Philipps 66 and Mattress Factory (and throw in the McCarthy Auto Plaza) have been there for years....Denny's since at least the early 80's.

SW: Amoco, Chrysler dealership and the former Chuck's Boots.

SE: B of A formerly Bank IV and Chapalla restaurant (formerly Winsteads)

NE: Cingular, Ervs Vaccuums, Perkins, KDOT and Bendix Allied Signal ??? still remain. The first two are newer since the new intersection was built. Taco John's is gone, but the rest are established businesses. Perkins is probably 25 years old at least.

The 119th/I-35 corridor looks much like the developing 151st/I-35 corridor only because the recently built Home Depot and Super Target are set to open soon. Other than that, it's an old truck stop type of exit that now contains the Olathe Medical Center and the Great Mall of the Great Plains. From the freeway, all you can see is the Dillard's distribution warehouse to the NE and McDonalds and some industry stuff to the NW.

You must keep in mind that these two intersections serve two different demographic areas.

119th....North,NW and East NW Olathe.

151st.....South,SW, Spring Hill, Gardner and probably folks in Paola, Osawatomie and Baldwin City who used to drive to 95th St for most of the stuff these places now provide.

I'm no expert on Olathe, but I spend a lot of time there and this is how I see it from an insider's perspective.

StL_Dan wrote:Contrary to popular belief, the "same businesses" are not being built at each intersection mentioned. In fact, Santa Fe (135th and I-35) has remained virtually unchanged to the NW, SW and SE since I moved to Olathe nearly 15 years ago. The major changes to that intersection have been as a result of KDOT "remodeling" the intersection.

Sorry Dan, I was talkin' about the stretch of roads in general between Highway 69 and I-35. For instance, 135th at 69 Highway havin' a Home Depot, etc. and startin' to look like 119th at I-35 and 151st at I-35.

KCgridlock wrote:StL_Dan,

You seem proud of the burb you call home. I have come to feel the same way about the Tri-Cities area where I live (west Blue Springs, north Lee's Summit and east Independence). It's actually interesting to watch the area grow so fast and evolve and all the lakes etc are really nice.

But...do you show the same passion for the "city"? That is where the problem is. Too many suburbanites could give a crap about what happens to Downtown or other suburbs for that matter. I have a passion for urban KCMO that will never go away. I assume you do to or you wouldn't be on this forum.

Is is true that JoCo people are clueless about what exists in the MO burbs. I really do think that most JoCo people think that there are no comparable areas to JoCo in MO. That is just plain ignorance as you probably know. The eastern and southern MO burbs have over 400,000 people and the northland has 300,000 people, yet it's like they don't exist in JoCo.

Yes, I really do care about the "city", although I am probably not the most knowledgeable or effectual individual when it comes to understanding the complexities and challenges that hold back KC from becoming an even better downtown and metroplex.

I got off on the tangent of Olathe since this thread is in the "Suburbs" portion of the forum.

I like to learn, however, and will quietly lurk on the other portions of this site that deal with downtown, midtown and associated issues. For those of you that post regular items and issues regarding these matters....I thank you and look forward to reading more of your posts.

QueSi2Opie wrote:

StL_Dan wrote:Contrary to popular belief, the "same businesses" are not being built at each intersection mentioned. In fact, Santa Fe (135th and I-35) has remained virtually unchanged to the NW, SW and SE since I moved to Olathe nearly 15 years ago. The major changes to that intersection have been as a result of KDOT "remodeling" the intersection.

Sorry Dan, I was talkin' about the stretch of roads in general between Highway 69 and I-35. For instance, 135th at 69 Highway havin' a Home Depot, etc. and startin' to look like 119th at I-35 and 151st at I-35.

I wasn't trying to be harsh. Rather, just wanted to point out a few realities.

On a..eh hem..more serious note:
Taco Bell on Santa Fe wants to relocate to the NW corner of Ridgeview and Santa Fe (location of the old Bank of BV).

The Olathe City Council voted "no" (4-3).

KCgridlock wrote:Is is true that JoCo people are clueless about what exists in the MO burbs. I really do think that most JoCo people think that there are no comparable areas to JoCo in MO.

I'll just say that there's a lot of Missouri license plates in the parking lot of the City of Olathe Planning Department, and leave it at that.

I think everyone can pretty much agree that everyone has the right to live where they want, some folks want a high rise condominium and others want a house on a quarter acre lot in the suburbs, it's all good. There are plenty of pros and cons for both, city living may afford someone a shorter commute, closer to nightlife and cultural activities, etc. while living in the suburbs offer more shopping choices, lower car insurance and a lower crime rate. I'm originally from Saint Louis, and currently live in Palm Coast, Florida which is basically a subdivision of 40,000 people. Many may already know this, but I'm going to pass it along anyway. At the time of the 1950 census the city of Saint Louis was home to approximately 850,000 people. Along came the interstates and everyone pushed west, north, and south, creating new cities along the way. Today the metro area is home to around 2,700,000 while the city is down to 340,000. The inner suburbs are now the areas that are dying, shrinking populations, vacant shopping centers, and failing schools becoming more and more common. Everyone should keep in mind that eventually all this sprawl is going to catch up with you no matter whether your in Olathe or Blue Springs. If the cities die, the suburbs will die as the new hot spots move further and further away. From my visits to KC I feel this problem isn't nearly as bad as in Saint Louis, but without regional cooperation and planning, it will happen. I hope to move to the KC area sometime in the near future, it's cultural opportunities coupled with affordable living outweigh most US cities, and a certain friendliness I don't feel in most places. Be proud of of what you have there, Kansas City really is a special place.

CGPinFL wrote:I think everyone can pretty much agree that everyone has the right to live where they want, some folks want a high rise condominium and others want a house on a quarter acre lot in the suburbs, it's all good. There are plenty of pros and cons for both, city living may afford someone a shorter commute, closer to nightlife and cultural activities, etc. while living in the suburbs offer more shopping choices, lower car insurance and a lower crime rate. I'm originally from Saint Louis, and currently live in Palm Coast, Florida which is basically a subdivision of 40,000 people. Many may already know this, but I'm going to pass it along anyway. At the time of the 1950 census the city of Saint Louis was home to approximately 850,000 people. Along came the interstates and everyone pushed west, north, and south, creating new cities along the way. Today the metro area is home to around 2,700,000 while the city is down to 340,000. The inner suburbs are now the areas that are dying, shrinking populations, vacant shopping centers, and failing schools becoming more and more common. Everyone should keep in mind that eventually all this sprawl is going to catch up with you no matter whether your in Olathe or Blue Springs. If the cities die, the suburbs will die as the new hot spots move further and further away. From my visits to KC I feel this problem isn't nearly as bad as in Saint Louis, but without regional cooperation and planning, it will happen. I hope to move to the KC area sometime in the near future, it's cultural opportunities coupled with affordable living outweigh most US cities, and a certain friendliness I don't feel in most places. Be proud of of what you have there, Kansas City really is a special place.

Well said, CGP.

I too am a STL native and hold similar opinions as you.

"I'll just say that there's a lot of Missouri license plates in the parking lot of the City of Olathe Planning Department, and leave it at that."

That's funny because I sure do see ALOT of newly moved Johnson County plates in Lee's Summit driveways. And of course there's plenty at the Truman Sports complex and on the Plaza. I'm just curious if you were moving from Missouri to Kansas why in the world would you choose Olathe?

KCgridlock wrote:StL_Dan,

You seem proud of the burb you call home. I have come to feel the same way about the Tri-Cities area where I live (west Blue Springs, north Lee's Summit and east Independence). It's actually interesting to watch the area grow so fast and evolve and all the lakes etc are really nice.

But...do you show the same passion for the "city"? That is where the problem is. Too many suburbanites could give a crap about what happens to Downtown or other suburbs for that matter. I have a passion for urban KCMO that will never go away. I assume you do to or you wouldn't be on this forum.

Is is true that JoCo people are clueless about what exists in the MO burbs. I really do think that most JoCo people think that there are no comparable areas to JoCo in MO. That is just plain ignorance as you probably know. The eastern and southern MO burbs have over 400,000 people and the northland has 300,000 people, yet it's like they don't exist in JoCo.

My passsion for KCMO's future probably does not burn nearly as bright as yours or other posters on this forum, BUT, that is not to say that I don't wish KC could develop into it's full potential. A burgeoning downtown full of activity and commerce and residents would be grand.

I believe it takes all types to make this world go 'round....some happen to live in JoCo, Wyandotte, Jackson, Cass and other metro counties. Each of these community's have their upside and downside. KCMO is no exception. Hopefully, KCMO's upside will be exposed and developed into a great future place for us all to be even more proud of.