20th Street Streetscape

[DaveKCMO]

I'd like if the rendering above took the bike lane away from the street and moved it to the sidewalk.  These are often prettier and are not likely to get blocked by stupid drivers.  The wider sidewalk also doubles to allow for more congestion on the sidewalks during events where cyclists wouldn't be flying back and forth.

i've invited someone tied to the project to chime in on this question. do any resident cyclists have thoughts?

[bobbyhawks]

i've invited someone tied to the project to chime in on this question. do any resident cyclists have thoughts?

I'm just thinking back to places I have seen this work in Europ and Asia.  Japan had these lanes all over Nagoya and Kyoto, and I remember Austria and Spain had a lot of them as well.  To me, it is an easier culture change to get a few pedestrians out of the bike lane than it is to get millions of people to suddenly respect bikes.  This lane needs to span many blocks, though, to work without being annoying to the rider.  Also the extra space on the street is not usable for anything else.  When needed for temporary events like First Friday, the sidewalk bike lane can be covered with tents or performers, etc.

[KCMax]

I'm wondering though if this creates a hazard for ped/cyclist collisions since we're not trained here to look for cyclists in their own lane? Or even worse, drivers won't look for them since they're outta sight, outta mind and when the cyclists cross intersections they're in great peril?

I guess I'd just rather have slower road traffic, and bikes and cars sharing the road and being aware of each other, but I'm willing to hear arguments for this idea.

[Midtownkid]

Bike lanes as shown in the rendering (edge of the street) work really well in DC.  They created a ton of them all over DC in the last 5 years or so.  People seem to get it.  It helps that DC has a ton of bike commuters. The lanes really help encourage bike usage...and it makes biking around town faster and safer.

Does KC have a long term plan to add bike lanes all over town?

Bike lanes on the sidewalk seem like a bad idea.

[bobbyhawks]

Our biggest problem with bike traffic compared to other regions of the world is that many places, including the entire EU and Japan do not allow right turns on red lights unless there is a sign stating it is allowed.  There is definitely a safety concern, esp. if you have created a vegitation barrier so that the cyclists are not visible until the corner.  Also, we don't have a lot of extra wide sidewalks downtown which would meld with a sidewalk lane plan.  The use of sidewalk lanes in the US is probably much more conducive to casual riders than it is A to B necessity riders.  There aren't many of either at this point in KC that I am aware of.

[KCMax]

Our biggest problem with bike traffic compared to other regions of the world is that many places, including the entire EU and Japan do not allow right turns on red lights unless there is a sign stating it is allowed.  There is definitely a safety concern, esp. if you have created a vegitation barrier so that the cyclists are not visible until the corner.  Also, we don't have a lot of extra wide sidewalks downtown which would meld with a sidewalk lane plan.  The use of sidewalk lanes in the US is probably much more conducive to casual riders than it is A to B necessity riders.  There aren't many of either at this point in KC that I am aware of.

Our sidewalks are painfully thin, and whatever space we have for them should be used for outdoor patio seating when applicable.

[Midtownkid]

Comparison of current street conditions and the new plan.



Love the 'bow tie' park idea...HUGE improvement over a strange triangular parking lot.  Weird how they don't show the ramp from Main that goes to Walnut.  I don't think the city is really going to get rid of that...are they?  Overall, this new plan will be a huge improvement and I bet will go a long way in making that part of the Crossroads seem like a 'real neighborhood.'

[chrizow]

i am bad at interpreting drawings.  is it fair to say that we're talking about some trees and shit being planted along 20th, along with a few triangles of green space? 

[Pork Chop]

Comparison of current street conditions and the new plan.



Love the 'bow tie' park idea...HUGE improvement over a strange triangular parking lot.  Weird how they don't show the ramp from Main that goes to Walnut.  I don't think the city is really going to get rid of that...are they?  Overall, this new plan will be a huge improvement and I bet will go a long way in making that part of the Crossroads seem like a 'real neighborhood.'

Personally, I do hope they take the ramp out. I rarely see that may car using it at once where they need the ramp. But that is only one person's opinion.

[Midtownkid]

Removal of that viaduct connection is a great idea, really.  I agree.

The plan goes a little beyond adding trees...but not too much further.  20th street will shrink a lane or two and the side walks will be enlarged.  The north sidewalk will be much larger with strips of trees/plantings interjected into the pavement.  two bike lanes will be added.  

The area around Missouri Bank will be improved the most.  looks like they want to take out the small section of Wyandotte street (East of the 'bow tie park') and landscape that and part of the adjacent parking lot.  

Also notice the parking spaces West of the Bow tie Park.  That may help that small space seem more calm...

(the blue lines are approximate boundaries for the new 20th street)

[chrizow]

ah!  sounds good.  the zoom view makes it easier to see.  i like the road-diet and bike lanes. 

[Midtownkid]

I really hope they can make the western bow tie park happen.  I wonder if the city would have to buy that little parking lot.  I hope they can.  Also, they should put a few park benches & a trash can in both.  Crossroads residents and workers could eat lunch in them...on FF people could eat street food there, too.

[DaveKCMO]

alas, the project hits its first snag... public works refuses to move forward unless the plan includes an option for four traffic lanes. we're working on a trump card!

[chrizow]

four traffic lanes.

[missingkc]

Is there really not anyone in Kansas City that can smack public works on the ass?  Do they not answer to someone?

[mean]

I bet a strong mayor could... :/

[pash]

.

[ThaMexican]

Why on earth do we need 4 lanes on that St? Who can we write to let them know we support the current design?

[mean]

You know, I've driven down that stretch of 20th street probably fifteen billion times, and I can't recall a single time when it was packed with cars.

[chrizow]

You know, I've driven down that stretch of 20th street probably fifteen billion times, and I can't recall a single time when it was packed with cars.

during first friday it gets somewhat congested - i.e. the only nights of the year that KC seems almost like a real city.  

during rush hour, it ALMOST gets crowded with people clamoring to get to the W. Pennway/35 on ramp.

more lanes of traffic for clueless JoCo commuters!  bring it on!  it is abundantly clear that keeping our downtown ugly and stagnant for the benefit of occasional commuter traffic is priority #1.