Livestrong Sporting Park

[dangerboy]

This could still be a big bargaining tactic to force KCMO to give them the $20m cash advance and use the city's credit to guarantee the bonds. 

A few a couple hundred thousand dollars for soil samples and architectural renderings is pocket change for project of this size.

[LenexatoKCMO]

The whole dealing just seems slimy....NFM contacted the wizards?  Uhh, huh...with push from the city/state who had some STAR bond money to use.....did the bannister mall developers  and/or city know about this side proposal?  Seems they were informed recently after working in good faith on the deal.  Where were cerner's promise of 4k employees for the bannister site?  Seems that would have helped push the development along.

What difference does it make?  If the city had more knowledge or whatever, would there really have been anything that they could have done to make the project work without the non-existent sales tax revenue?   No retail = no sales tax revenue = no bannister mall redevelopment any time in the forseeable future, with or without the Wizards.  

Perhaps KCMO could have reconceived the development at some more established, attractive location - but that still would have probably only shaved a couple years off what figures to be a protracted timeline for any retail project just now getting off the ground.  

[KCPowercat]

You don't think the promise of 4000 cerner employees could change things a bit?

We get it, you love the VW area so you see nothing wrong going on...I see it as even more division with the leaders of one state setting up a better deal with the owners while the other state is still working on getting the original deal done.

Wonder what the OP youth fields think about the state sponsoring even more youth fields a county away?

[staubio]

As a Wizards STH, this news really bugs me. I don't like the prospect of heading to VW for games and I was proud of the team for being part of the redevelopment of an existing neighborhood rather than the exacerbation of an increasingly ugly freeway retail themepark. I do realize, however, that being forced to play at Community America for more than another year or two could kill the team. Even with consistent sell-outs, they are selling fewer seats than any MLS venue and as much of an improvement over Arrowhead it is for the gameday experience, it is far from ideal for soccer. There are no great seats (save the pricey fieldside option) and some of the seats are downright terrible.

The future of the Wizards hinges on this stadium.

[cityscape]

Hey, wizards might get a place sooner, that's great for them....but this whole thing smells and continues to tear apart this metro, which is a much larger issue than where our MLS team plays.

How is it tearing apart the metro????  They're moving from one site in the metro to the other, granted it happens to be another state, but it's still in the metro KC area.  It's nice to know that Kansas can now pay to subsidize a professional franchise.  The only thing tearing apart this metro is those who continue to fail to see this as ONE KC.  I'm looking at this as a gain no matter where it goes.  Sure I would have loved to have seen Bannister redeveloped instead of being an eyesore for this city, but who knows how long we would have to wait for that entire project to materialize.  Then we'd still have to wait a few more years after that to see if it actually made money.  This project most likely won't fail at VW because they aren't adding in any more retail.  Just boosting what's already out there.

[LenexatoKCMO]

You don't think the promise of 4000 cerner employees could change things a bit?

How would it?  Is the state going to cough up some job creation money for that?  The city certainly doesn't have it to give.  Jobs aren't subject to sales tax.  Without retail, what could KCMO do to make this happen anytime the next couple years?  

We get it, you love the VW area so you see nothing wrong going on...

I maybe get out to VW a half dozen times a year - about the same as zona rosa.  I do tend to believe that VW has more long term economic potential for the region than a good many of the other suburban developments in the area.  Guilty - but I don't think that really changes the economic factors at work in this deal.

I see it as even more division with the leaders of one state setting up a better deal with the owners while the other state is still working on getting the original deal done.

Sounds much more like a situation where leaders on one side came up with a deal that is viable sometime in the next couple years after it became aparent that the original deal in the neighboring city wasn't going to be workable anywhere near the wizards timeline.  The wizards have bounced around needing a stadium deal for several years - are they just supposed to sit around another several years waiting for a new construction retail based development to work?

[dangerboy]

Anyone have deja vu with the chiefs?  They also trotted out some Villagio West stadium renderings while negotiating with Jackson County over the stadium sales tax....

[KCPowercat]

I have stated why I have that opinion at least twice...if you don't agree that's fine but I don't think I need to restate it.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Bullshit.  The city and state signed off on almost $300 million, but the team came back wanting the city to advance them cash *and* back the bonds with the city's credit.  It would have taken the worst parts of the Citadel Plaza scheme and the Power & Light District and wrapped them into one giant drain on the city's budget.  It would have been incredibly irresponsible to do it.

The economy and the credit markets forced the team to make the additional demands (couldn't sell the bonds in the current market).  Now, it is up to the city to realize that the situation has changed and can it accomodate the change.  It is a simple 'yes' or 'no'.  True, it would have been a big gamble on the City's part to fulfill the request of the Wizards but at the same time the city has gambled big in the past (see P&L district).

[KCPowercat]

Lenexa...if the new jobs don't matter, why does cerner promise them to 'sweeten the deal'.  I definitely think a promise of a major employer could help the bannister site gain retailers.

[LenexatoKCMO]

I have stated why I have that opinion at least twice...if you don't agree that's fine but I don't think I need to restate it.

You haven't said what you think could have been done on the KCMO side to make bannister viable.  Should the city dump out $10-20mil a year out of the general fund to subsidize the project until retail becomes workable again?  You know me - I tend to be as in favor as anyone around here for the city to be aggressive with its development incentivization - but even I think that would be extremely reckless and probably just downright impossible.  

[KCPowercat]

Akp...that post had nothing to do with that question.

I am not familiar enough with the bannister site to know what else the city/state could do.

I assume with funk at the helm, it won't be done though.

[KCPowercat]

Sorry, lenexa not akp.

Who knows what kcmo could have done with the promise of 4000 employees in a 600sf. Building.  Sounds like cerner didn't give them the chance to answer that question...they were approached by kck (I mean nfm....riiiight) and jumped.

[KCMax]

Sorry, lenexa not akp.

Who knows what kcmo could have done with the promise of 4000 employees in a 600sf. Building.  Sounds like cerner didn't give them the chance to answer that question...they were approached by kck (I mean nfm....riiiight) and jumped.

You seem to be implying nefarious motives behind Cerner. I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but why would they offer this for Legends and not Bannister Mall? What motive would they have?

[kcjak]

Why would Cerner be tempted by VW?  Star bonds.

I'm really bummed that the Bannister location may not work out, especially now that I've started wondering what type of development would go in if the Wizards end up in KCK.  But I don't see this as KS-vs-MO as much as I see it as the Wizards seeing no progress at the Trails and established retail already waiting at VW.

This had to have been initiated by the Wizards ownership group (including the Cerner guys) who see this as a chance to get a stadium built sooner rather than later with less out-of-pocket funding that also provides for funding for future business expansion.  It sucks that the ~4000 jobs and estimated $2+ million in KC earnings tax may not happen in KCMO, but the owners can't keep playing homes games for a maximum of 10,000 people.  It's a business decision and as much as I don't like them moving to VW, it makes complete sense.

[dangerboy]

Now that Arrowhead renovations are finished, why can't the team move back there for a couple of years until a new stadium is finished?

[LenexatoKCMO]

Lenexa...if the new jobs don't matter, why does cerner promise them to 'sweeten the deal'.  I definitely think a promise of a major employer could help the bannister site gain retailers.

It doesn't really have anything to do with the jobs directly impacting retailers.  

The jobs are a fig to the county and state for not just retiring the Star bond early.  The sales tax bond is set to retire six years early and the county/state would have started reaping their sales tax windfall from everything at VW come 2014.  By promissing the jobs, they guarantee significant income tax to the state to offset the loss of six years of sales tax revenue.  Without the promise of income tax revenue, you would have legislators from out-state KS hooting and holloring about why all of that wyco sales tax revenue isn't going into the general fund.  

The jobs really don't do anything to change the incentive picture on the Mo side.  

[LenexatoKCMO]

Now that Arrowhead renovations are finished, why can't the team move back there for a couple of years until a new stadium is finished?

Pretty sure the chiefs didn't want them there.  Plus it sucks even worse than community america as a MLS venue. 

[aknowledgeableperson]

Now that Arrowhead renovations are finished, why can't the team move back there for a couple of years until a new stadium is finished?

Probably because the Chiefs don't want them and the stadium is way too big for the Wizards.

[staubio]

You seem to be implying nefarious motives behind Cerner. I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but why would they offer this for Legends and not Bannister Mall? What motive would they have?

Exactly. There was always talk of bringing jobs to the development at Bannister. This is just a transfer of that promise.