New Townhomes in west River Market? (along Wyandotte)

[LindseyLohan]

Forget a said anything, let's touch this topic again 80 years from now...

[Valdoro]

The "waferboard" LiLo is refering to is called OSB (oriented strand board); it is as strong and as durable as what was once commonly used for sheathing--- laminated plywood.  Let's make sure we are technically correct before we go off on some uninformed tangent. 

[LindseyLohan]

OMG?!?!? I feel so stupid! I'm so embarrased! I'll never be able to login to the forum again! All this time I've been calling it WAFERBOARD!


Whatever, Call it what you want. It will still look like shit sooner than later. Last thing I want to do is buy and live in a house that needs wrapping paper (TYVEK) to survive the elements. Argue the stupid petty stuff all you want. Point is NEW RESIDENTIAL CONSTRUCTION IS NOT THE SAME QUALITY AS OLD RESIDENTIAL CONSTRUCTION. I will personally never buy one of these cookie cutter homes, you are welcome to buy one yourself. There is an "OSB" house at 27th and Harrison that has been getting rained on for the last few years. I sure as hell would never buy that one, would you?

By the way, I used to do tile and hardwood floors. The only subflooring I've ever replaced was "OSB". It doesn't hold up well near bathtubs or dishwashers....

I'm glad you know the proper terminology for Waferboard, you pretentious turd sword. Can you translate turd sword to it's scientific name for me please?

[zonk]

Lilo....

1.  You are correct...Old residential construction is not the same quality as new residential construction.
2.  Old residential was typically wrapped in tar paper
3.  All new construction uses some type of "tyvek" material.  There are a thousand types of the "house wrap" and many different applications.
4.  OSB is a viable building material if utilized correctly. 
5.  Tile....never, ever use OSB on flooring.  Whoever did that is an idiot.

[Midtownkid]

Regardless of its quality (which I think is ok for today's standards) I think the project looks cool in this pic I took while at home.



Lindsey, I agree that old buildings are much prettier and seem much stronger and well-built then today's buildings.  However, having just graduated from Architecture school and taking some construction and building assembly classes, I have to say there are some good things about the way we construct things today.  That 'wrapping paper' keeps moisture out of the wall assembly and out of the inside of a building.  Older buildings were less permeable with their thick stone or brick facades, but they did/do let in too much moisture.  Today's buildings are way more energy efficient because of things like Tyvek.

[voltopt]

Tyvek isn't the real problem - its the specific construction conditions.  More often than not, home builders in the area do not take appropriate measures, do not flash/counterflash correctly, and use substandard materials applied by substandard workers.  This is the rule, not the exception, when it comes to new homes built by home builders.  Any larger scale project has a tendency to have a commercial contractor, reputable and skilled workers, and a superior design team that is committed to energy efficiency, moisture protection, and occasionally building lifespan.  Older, well built houses do have a tendency to outlast their fast tracked, OSB sheathed younger siblings, but the old houses are still susceptible to moisture, sun, and wind, just like any building.  The number one killer of buildings is improperly managed moisture.

On a side not, I think there are some hideous building finishes, especially for houses, that are touted as superior products.  Hardi-board is one that come to mind.  Another is any poorly applied/detailed stucco system, especially of the EIFS variety.  Stucco is best used as an exterior wall covering, but when retail developments use it over sytrofoam as a faux stone for lintels, wainscoating, and parapets, it looks pretty bad and probably won't last too long.

One thing to look into is a rain screen, which may occasionaly have the same bland finish as a Hardi-board system, but is superior when it comes to moisture protection.  Essentially you build your exterior wall, whether its a curtain wall that is suspended from a structural frame or a masonry wall that is self supporting.  Following this, you place your rigid insulation on the outside, and then seal that within a moisture barrier.  The rain screen is a hard fibrous panel system that is offset from the impregnable wall construction.  It protects the actual wall from rain, humidity, wicking moisture, and direct contact with the sun.  If properly maintained, they can last a long time, and if you need to replace them, they are relatively simple to change, as opposed to an integrated exterior finish system like stucco or brick.



**EDIT** fixed broken photo link



Here's a copper rain screen:

[coreyo]

that copper rain screen looks great.

[LindseyLohan]

Sorry, didn't go to construction school. I just spent a couple years as a resi electrician, couple doing tile and hardwood, sidejobs, and a couple as a contractor for time warner (probably been in at least 5000 homes, new and old) My time spent in attics, crawlspaces, basements, crawling on floors, tearing out stuff and repairing stuff, I've made my own conclusions and they didn't come out of a textbook. They came from hands on. In general, I've noticed houses from the 50's-70's and a little into the 80's era were some of the best constructed homes. Some of the stuff they hide/get away with in newer homes blows my mind...

Granted we don't have the same resources we did 30 years ago (mainly quality lumber), but when you try to make a cheap house with cheap materials and cheap labor (not to mention I think work ethic isn't what it probably once was), you get what you pay for.

Point being, I would never buy a brand new home, especially the $400,000 City Homes in the River Market. That's my opinion. If it was well engineered, well built, and was designed function over form, like the ones in Voltopt's  pic's, I'd change my mind. Your standard cookie cutter covered in stucco to hide whats underneath and look pretty? No way.

[KC-wildcat]

Sorry, didn't go to construction school. I just spent a couple years as a resi electrician, couple doing tile and hardwood, sidejobs, and a couple as a contractor for time warner (probably been in at least 5000 homes, new and old) My time spent in attics, crawlspaces, basements, crawling on floors, tearing out stuff and repairing stuff, I've made my own conclusions and they didn't come out of a textbook. They came from hands on. In general, I've noticed houses from the 50's-70's and a little into the 80's era were some of the best constructed homes. Some of the stuff they hide/get away with in newer homes blows my mind...

I think somebody needs to take a nap. 

[taxi]

I agree, a nap might help. Or maybe a quaalude.

On the other hand, since Lindsay is so smart, maybe he/she ought to buy one of those $400,000 City Homes and live in it for 2 years (it won't fall apart that quick, ya?) and then sell it tax-free for a hefty profit and then go buy a well-built, older home and rehab it. Win win. Everybody happy.

[trailerkid]

That grey color palette. Fug!

[staubio]

They could have at least drawn different plans for the City Homes on the ends so that the people on the north end facing the street could have windows. Blank walls = fail.

[RiverMarketDweller]

They could have at least drawn different plans for the City Homes on the ends so that the people on the north end facing the street could have windows. Blank walls = fail.

But if you consider how close the unit is to the street, to allow some level of density, you would have people walking by and looking into your living room less then a yard away. I guess they could have done a window 6-8 ft off the ground like they did on one side.

[KCgrammarhawk]

But if you consider how close the unit is to the street, to allow some level of density, you would have people walking by and looking into your living room less then a yard away. I guess they could have done a window 6-8 ft off the ground like they did on one side.

THAN

Function:
    conjunction


1 a—used as a function word to indicate the second member or the member taken as the point of departure in a comparison expressive of inequality ; used with comparative adjectives and comparative adverbs b—used as a function word to indicate difference of kind, manner, or identity ; used especially with some adjectives and adverbs that express diversity

THEN

   
Function:
    adverb

Etymology:
    Middle English than, then then, than, from Old English thonne, thænne; akin to Old High German denne then, than, Old English thæt that


1: at that time2 a: soon after that : next in order of time b: following next after in order of position, narration, or enumeration : being next in a series c: in addition : besides 3 a (1): in that case (2)—used after but to qualify or offset a preceding statement b: according to that : as may be inferred c: as it appears : by way of summing up d: as a necessary consequence

[ComandanteCero]

wow, way to hijack a thread.  If any of you folks are interested, just saw this news release on El Dorado's website (no idea when it's from... it could be months old for all i know)

ON THE BOARDS: Wyandotte Townhomes

Construction Documents are complete for this 18-townhome project.  Designed around challenging parking constraints, the project includes both one and two-bedroom residences.  In addition to careful urban landscaping that benefits the entire block, each residence will have its own “living roof”. The townhomes will utilize a highly insulated framing system with a brick veneer and cedar shingle skin, exposed glu-laminated beams , and steel / cedar railings and sunscreens.  Construction of the first two units is scheduled to commence in June.

[voltopt]

wow, way to hijack a thread.  If any of you folks are interested, just saw this news release on El Dorado's website (no idea when it's from... it could be months old for all i know)

Correct.  I have heard that this project is moving forward, and if they can sell the first two units, they will build the remaining 16.  There is also talk about a higher density project somewhere else in the river market, on a current parking lot.

[TheBigChuckbowski]

And if they don't sell, there is going to be 2 townhomes sitting awkwardly in the middle of a parking lot?

[voltopt]

They will hopefully sell.  They are out of my price range, but comparable to other properties around town.  And they are a better product than the boxes on 5th and Oak.

[loftguy]

And if they don't sell, there is going to be 2 townhomes sitting awkwardly in the middle of a parking lot?

Yeah, they really shouldn't attempt to make something happen.  It might fail.

[KC-wildcat]

And if they don't sell, there is going to be 2 townhomes sitting awkwardly in the middle of a parking lot?

More appropriately, I would counter that if they don't sell, there is going to be a parking lot sitting awkwardly in the middle on of an urban area.