KCRag Forum

I only stopped by places I'd never been before:

Windows lofts - quite possibly the highest ceilings I've ever seen, but think the model unit wasn't on a 'typical' floor.  The finishings were exactly the same as the companie's building near 20th/Wyandotte (can't remember the name).  That building had amazing views and great windows.  I'm pretty sure I saw a sign that said 20% off during the weekend.

P&L Condos - great sales office, but felt like the sales staff came from used car lots and each was trying to outdo the other.  Can't wait to see this development come together - love the balconies.

Fountains Lofts - was incredibly disappointed in these.  The finishes were cheap...the doors weren't even solid.  Layouts of the 1BR were awful.  And if I'm going to shell out $300K plus around $500 a month in HOA, I don't want to spend $20K or $75/mo for parking (at least not in that place).

The Broadway - connected to the Fountains underground.  Found these to be even worse than Fountains, mostly due to odd layouts.

We didn't make it to as many properities as I would have liked, but here are a few thoughts:

Campbell:  these are horrible.  One slow elevator to service the building.  The units still look like apartments but they aren't asking apartment prices.

Summit:  I didn't even know these were here.  I agree with others, the fixtures were not my style, but I loved the beams and wood.

Windows:  This was my favorite by far.  Loved the finishes and tall celings.

Haden:  Not a great location, especially with the front door on Broadway.  Finishes were just so-so.  With less spots than units, parking is going to be an issue here.  I asked why they aren't selling the parking for 6 years and the answer didn't really make sense.  But I was comforted to know that half the parking fee will go into a "slush fund" to apply toward purchase.  Slush fund it not a phrase I'd use to sell something

One Park Place:  insane.  It's going to be a long time before they sell this building out.  $700/month for HOA on the SMALLEST unit.  Cigar room and putting green are great, but how often does that stuff get used?  I can't imagine enough to pay for it all every month, but I guess if you have the money and nothing else to spend it on, why not.  The views north were great, except for the skateboard park.  Interesting finishes.  At least every unit looks different

Manhattan / Metropolitan:  I've ran out of time on these every year so we started there.  Bad location and sub-par views.  I guess they are a decent drive-up option for urban living.

lock+load wrote: Haden:  Not a great location, especially with the front door on Broadway.  Finishes were just so-so.  With less spots than units, parking is going to be an issue here.  I asked why they aren't selling the parking for 6 years and the answer didn't really make sense.  But I was comforted to know that half the parking fee will go into a "slush fund" to apply toward purchase.  Slush fund it not a phrase I'd use to sell something

This one concerns me since the parking for my building is in a lot that backs up to Haden - hopefully they will be prepared with the tow trucks but based on their past level of enforcement, I won't hold my breath.  I had hoped that Haden had access to the big lot south of Windows, but even then, our parking is closer to their back entrance. 

haden is just a bad project all around:

- crap finishes
- no parking
- 10 year abatement (filed too late for 25 years)
- no amenities

i suspect he'll end up renting them in the end to cut his losses.

Just crunched some numbers on Haden.  The 4th floor units are about $360/sq ft (over $370 when you add the $20k to buy a parking spot!).  I just don't see how they can justify those prices.  In contrast, the most expensive units on the 9th floor of Piper are just under $310/ft and are much nicer with far more amenities.  I assume Windows pricing will be similar.

This might have been considered a unique or above average property 6 or 7 years ago.  But the market, and competition, has matured far beyond this level.

My favorite quote from their marketing material:  "We are raising the standard of excellence for construction finishes." 

PumpkinStalker wrote:

This is the hallway (behind a blocked off door of course!  ) of the Union Carbide.  Agent said the building is currently just a shell.  Sad...

Did you not go up to the 9th floor?  I stopped in there since I live in the area and the agent sent us up to the 9th floor shell.  It was pretty messy but it was still cool to see the views and it really makes you appreciate more the work that these guys have to do to make them into the livable condos.

No they nade no mention of it when we were there and we were tired bye the time we made it there.  Would have liked to see it

The annual urban tour is coming up, this year with a $5 ticket?

http://www.downtownkc.org/content.aspx? ... xCompID=90

also a $40 VIP tour on Friday evening to some of the bigger penthouses along with drinks.

No listing of properties yet.


Also heard P&L is doing a no cover event to all(?) bars in the Live block with a $30 all you can drink option in addition to the free covers.  Guess they are attaching it around Cinco.

Also of course First Friday is that Friday.

Yeah, I don't understand the ticket thing.  It seems like that could decrease attendance and hence have a smaller pool of people to look at these properties and maybe decide to move downtown.  It's like charging people to come to an open house when you're trying to sell your house.  This is marketing and the sellers/lessors should be bearing their own marketing costs, in my opinion, rather than passing them on to their potential buyers or renters.

I can see maybe charging $5 for a bus pass to get you around to all of the properties if you want it, but I don't think they should be charging admissions to the properties themselves.

No doubt there are a lot of looky loos who have no intention of ever moving downtown.  However, it's still a good opportunity to get them down here and experience downtown.

It's a matter of simple economics.  Lack of access to capital has put developers in a cash crunch.  Some of them to the point of desperation.  That was recognized by the Downtown Council as they approached the ninth year of the Urban Tour.  Besides, how many new condo properties do you see in the downtown market today, compared to prior years?  It's a very short list and those contributions towards event costs are gone.  However, there are individuals who have condos to sell and our retail and restaurants still need to opportunity to have new visitors to downtown discover them.

St. Louis has canceled their Urban Living Tour for this year, when previously they have charged $15 per person for the well attended tour.

If you haven't put on an event like this, it can be very surprising what it costs to execute.  The tour costs nearly six figures to produce and that is with many hundreds of volunteer hours towards the effort.

Kansas City decided to continue the tour and charge the cost of a latte for the entertainment/education provided.  Not the desired avenue, but you work with what you've got.

I call bullshit, you don't charge for an open house.  I'm not sure what all else may go on, ie vip tours, happy hour etc, but I checked out a half dozen places last year and if there was 6 figure costs happening it must of been in the bathroom with a bag of coke. 

I'm sure the transportation does cost....so charge for a bus ride, don't charge to freaking walk into a building people are trying to sell/rent.

I don't even care about the price but why do you have to pick them up at 14th and Main? That's what's stupid. Are they worried people are going to duplicate tickets printed online or something?

grovester wrote: I call bullshit, you don't charge for an open house.  I'm not sure what all else may go on, ie vip tours, happy hour etc, but I checked out a half dozen places last year and if there was 6 figure costs happening it must of been in the bathroom with a bag of coke. 

What a jerk.  You strike me as a mouth without life experience.  Good luck with that.

Buses, security, graphic designer, copywriter, printer, advertising, signage, balloons, snacks, water, buttons to identify tour participants. 

It is all to sell their places, so you can understand when people are confused they are charged to tour open houses.

Now that I did hear you get coupons, etc. and some additional swag it makes a little more sense but it was odd when I first read it.  It will definitely hurt attendance...will it turn away those looking seriously downtown?  probably not...but it might turn away some that might have had their attitudes changed about downtown.

Not a huge deal either way and as you stated, we are doing better with our urban tours than some cities.

loftguy wrote: Buses, security, graphic designer, copywriter, printer, advertising, signage, balloons, snacks, water, buttons to identify tour participants. 

It is still an open house.  Charge for the frills, but not for the "right" to walk through a condo that is for sale. 

I doubt they're going to make people get a ticket to enter each building.  If so, I'm going to stand down front and let people in my building.

Anyone checking this out over the weekend?  I usually go to a few places...favorites or units new to the market since last year.  I've tried to find a downloadable list of locations, but no luck so far, so if anyone knows where to find, please pass along the URL.  On a side note, I wish I'd gotten off my ass and signed up for tonight's 'VIP' event - I'd love to see what they've been doing in the 909 Walnut tower.  I went up there a few years ago when it was a shell and I don't think the photos in yesterday's Star do it justice.

kcjak wrote: Anyone checking this out over the weekend?  I usually go to a few places...favorites or units new to the market since last year.  I've tried to find a downloadable list of locations, but no luck so far, so if anyone knows where to find, please pass along the URL.  On a side note, I wish I'd gotten off my ass and signed up for tonight's 'VIP' event - I'd love to see what they've been doing in the 909 Walnut tower.  I went up there a few years ago when it was a shell and I don't think the photos in yesterday's Star do it justice.

I'm hoping someone gets some good photos of the 909 penthouse. I was too late on the VIP tickets too. I didn't expect them to sell out so fast.

Stop by the "main bus stop" at 14th and Main and you'll be able to get maps of the properties in your goodie bag.

I'll be playing tour guide on one of the Sunday buses, so say hello if you are on the tour!

we're going on sunday.