Proposition: A downtown Macy's department store

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KSTHANE
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Re: Proposition: A downtown Macy's department store

Post by KSTHANE »

Has anyone seen the Target/Best Buy combo in Los Angeles near the Walk of Fame?
They have one of those in Miami as well, except it's not an urban location.

A large department store in an urban environment should not be bad for walkability in downtown if the facade of the building isn't just a huge blank wall with a few doors to get in.  If they design the front of the store so that it interacts with those walking the street it could be a welcomed addition to the sidewalk.
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Re: Proposition: A downtown Macy's department store

Post by KC0KEK »

http://www.ajc.com/business/content/bus ... .html 

New Midtown Wal-Mart will cater to urban tastes

By PATTI BOND
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 10/13/06

The world's largest retailer has given a Wal-Mart-sized makeover to its first store inside Atlanta's city limits.

From the hardwood floors to the rooftop parking lot, you'll see little trace of the retailer's suburban big box when the doors open Wednesday. The Midtown store sits below street level, out of sight from the traffic on Howell Mill Road. Inside, Wal-Mart has ditched the bargain-basement atmosphere for a more upscale air, complete with sushi bar.

Wal-Mart, the retail giant that some people love and others love to hate, is showing off a new sensitive side — one that just happens to coincide with its march into city settings.

The dramatically different look at the Howell Mill store, as well as its spruced-up merchandise mix, is due partly to local neighborhood activists. In order to set up shop in coveted urban cores such as Atlanta and Chicago, Wal-Mart has learned that it has to bend, and sometimes over backwards.

It's a big switch from Wal-Mart's one-size-fits-all formula.

"We used to say, 'Here's the battleship gray box,' and that's it," said director of corporate affairs Michael Mills, pointing out the Atlanta store's brick-and-stone exterior. "But, as we move into cities, we're building stores that fit the needs of the neighborhood."

Cheese, not guns

The new urban format is one piece in a puzzle that Wal-Mart hasn't had to solve until recently.

Like Home Depot, Wal-Mart has opened stores at a breakneck pace, but it is starting to run out of room in some markets — and faces fierce opposition in others.

In response, Wal-Mart is ramping up its "store of the community" strategy, designed to reflect the tastes of local demographics.

At the Howell Mill location, Wal-Mart will try to woo the up-and-coming Midtown consumer set with organic clothing and plasma TVs to go along with the softer color palette.

Instead of a gun case, you'll find a gourmet cheese case. And there's no oil-change center, but there is nearly 70 linear feet of wine.

Just inside the entrance to the grocery section, a prototype bakery "island" will greet shoppers with the aroma of fresh bread.

"The neighborhood wanted a more upscale store," said store manager Chuck Rushing, who started his Wal-Mart career 23 years ago corralling shopping carts in the parking lot. "In general, customers have been telling us they want better products, but still at Wal-Mart prices."

While urban stores have some higher-end products that other stores don't carry, Mills said pricing for most goods are about the same in a given geographic market, whether urban or suburban.

Rushing and Mills both are quick to point out that the proper "urban" product mix is still a major work in progress.

Initially, the localized merchandise, such as an expanded ethnic hair-care section, represents just a fraction of the products that will be carried in the store.

The mix will fluctuate once store managers get a better handle on shopping patterns.

"We'll learn a lot in the first year," Rushing said. "The good thing about [Wal-Mart] is, we can change on a dime. We can make a couple of phone calls and a week later we'll have new categories of merchandise."

'Granular' variation

The urban format, up and running at only a handful of the chain's 3,700 U.S. stores, is an amplification of a localized strategy that's rolling out across the country, Mills notes.

The new local approach could pay off big for Wal-Mart, which has seen sales growth at existing stores slide due to competition from Target.

According to retail consulting firm Bain & Co., major retailers that design stores and products around neighborhoods can double their store profits.

"A lot of retailers vary their merchandise regionally, but now they're starting to go to a much more granular level," said Ritch Allison, a partner in the Atlanta office of Bain & Co.

"Retailers are realizing that localization means that a store in one section of Miami, for example, may look more like a section of New York than it does in nearby Palm Beach."

At Wal-Mart, that means a local store manager knows which one of the dozens of private-label brands of chili to carry.

Managers also tailor colors in the apparel section to match local sports teams, Allison noted.

The combination of different store formats and varying product mixes can be tricky, particularly in a cross-section of the city such as the Howell Mill district, but it's better than a cookie-cutter approach, he said.

"Customers will come back more often to a store that has a pleasing shopping experience. ... so that's going to help sales," Allison said.

"Plus, one of the big costs retailers face is markdowns. If they have the right merchandise in the right places, they're going to see results on the top line and bottom line."

And as neighborhood relations go, Wal-Mart is dealing with being, well, Wal-Mart. Neighborhood activists did not make the same design and decor demands upon TJ Maxx, Office Depot, PetSmart or other retailers at the Howell Mill shopping center.

"Wal-Mart is always looked at as the 800-pound gorilla, but they've been incredibly flexible and adaptable," said Scott Selig, vice president of Selig Enterprises, the developer of the 600,000-square-foot mixed-use development.

"This store has all of the most forward-thinking elements that Wal-Mart is doing right now, and I think you're going to see more stores of this type as they expand elsewhere."
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Re: Proposition: A downtown Macy's department store

Post by advocrat »

Interesting. One mantra of successful business is enterprise is to answer customer demand. This is true for the product, and as it may seem, true for the structure itself.  Where could a building like this be located in the downtown loop? - A reworked Town Pavilion? (Three lower levels) on top of the Parking Garage where Macy's used to be?  I'm interested in ideas.
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Re: Proposition: A downtown Macy's department store

Post by chrizow »

i personally see no reason for downtown KC to replicate things that are available in the burbs.  DT KC needs unique businesses and attractions, not the same old schlock you see at 119th and Strang Line or at Independence Center.  in the same vein, i don't want to see Barnes and Noble or Applebee's or places like that downtown.
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Re: Proposition: A downtown Macy's department store

Post by LenexatoKCMO »

chrizow wrote: i personally see no reason for downtown KC to replicate things that are available in the burbs.  DT KC needs unique businesses and attractions, not the same old schlock you see at 119th and Strang Line or at Independence Center.  in the same vein, i don't want to see Barnes and Noble or Applebee's or places like that downtown.
I think they need both - we need to have the unique boutiques and destination places to draw people down - but don't forget that we want people to live and function there too.  People who actually live and work downtown may not always want $200 boutique jeans.  Thats why I would never turn up my nose if someone wants to stick some of that mundane 119th street stuff like Old Navy or DSW downtown. 
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Re: Proposition: A downtown Macy's department store

Post by kcmetro »

On the topic of downtown stores, wasn't there supposed to be an H&M out at Village West, but they apparently pulled out? Well, has anyone heard if they still plan on having a store here? I would think that once the P&L opens, an H&M would be perfect for it, if not somewhere else downtown.
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Re: Proposition: A downtown Macy's department store

Post by kcdcchef »

chrizow wrote: i personally see no reason for downtown KC to replicate things that are available in the burbs.  DT KC needs unique businesses and attractions, not the same old schlock you see at 119th and Strang Line or at Independence Center.  in the same vein, i don't want to see Barnes and Noble or Applebee's or places like that downtown.
why is there such an obsession on this board with making downtown kansas city some goddamned utopia?

we should stand on the shoulders of the successes of other downtowns across america, and they have department stores. they have tgi fridays. they have hooters.

we can sit here and bitch and moan about NO, NO APPLEBEES!!!!  NO DARN TARGETS!!!!! all day long, but why not have the components that make other dt's successful? we already have unique in kcmo with the plaza, westport, crown center, crossroads, and river market. so what if the cbd is like other cbd's, even so, our core still will have MANY unique treasures in it, muehlbach, prez, phillips, empire, midland, the list is endless. so what if we copy and paste things the burbs have, they will not be the same. you ever seen how retail builds in big downtowns? it is NOT the same as what is in the northland or joco. give me a break.

and this is not directed at you chriz, to all who sit here and bellyache about all the shit we do not need. if it were up to everyone on this board, the p&L construction would be all strouds, bryants, jack stack, used eclectic book stores, local entertainment, kick ass fine dining from local restauranteurs, art galleries, and coffee houses. yeah,that will be real successful.

if wal mart, target, office depot, and all those want to be a part of this district, let them. they will not build big box shit, they have not in any other city thus far.
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Re: Proposition: A downtown Macy's department store

Post by beautyfromashes »

Would you want a Target to go in the Plaza?  No. It would be a shitstorm if they tried to do that.  People would talk about the 'architectural feel' being lost or desecrated. I think if you wouldn't want something on the Plaza we don't want it downtown either.  DT should be as much of a gem as any area in the city.
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Re: Proposition: A downtown Macy's department store

Post by KC0KEK »

kcdcchef wrote: we can sit here and bitch and moan about NO, NO APPLEBEES!!!!  NO DARN TARGETS!!!!! all day long, but why not have the components that make other dt's successful? we already have unique in kcmo with the plaza, westport, crown center, crossroads, and river market. so what if the cbd is like other cbd's, even so, our core still will have MANY unique treasures in it, muehlbach, prez, phillips, empire, midland, the list is endless. so what if we copy and paste things the burbs have, they will not be the same. you ever seen how retail builds in big downtowns? it is NOT the same as what is in the northland or joco. give me a break.

and this is not directed at you chriz, to all who sit here and bellyache about all the shit we do not need. if it were up to everyone on this board, the p&L construction would be all strouds, bryants, jack stack, used eclectic book stores, local entertainment, kick ass fine dining from local restauranteurs, art galleries, and coffee houses. yeah,that will be real successful.

if wal mart, target, office depot, and all those want to be a part of this district, let them. they will not build big box shit, they have not in any other city thus far.
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Re: Proposition: A downtown Macy's department store

Post by KCMax »

beautyfromashes wrote: Would you want a Target to go in the Plaza?  No. It would be a shitstorm if they tried to do that.  People would talk about the 'architectural feel' being lost or desecrated. I think if you wouldn't want something on the Plaza we don't want it downtown either.  DT should be as much of a gem as any area in the city.
Apples and oranges. I don't think there should be a Target in the P&L, but I'd have no problem if there was one in downtown.

Chef is right, there have to be some practical things that appeal to the masses. Downtown will never totally succeed if it caters to niche businesses that only the ultra-cool downtowners know about.
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Re: Proposition: A downtown Macy's department store

Post by kcdcchef »

beautyfromashes wrote: Would you want a Target to go in the Plaza?  No. It would be a shitstorm if they tried to do that.  People would talk about the 'architectural feel' being lost or desecrated. I think if you wouldn't want something on the Plaza we don't want it downtown either.  DT should be as much of a gem as any area in the city.
if you reference the above post, you will see i do not stand alone.

they put all kinds of chain shit on the country club plaza, and noone complains, cheesecake factory, barnes and noble, california pizza kitchen, armani, see a trend here bfa? why would target or walfart even try the plaza? they would not, the rent would eat them alive for the razor thin profit margins they have. so, i will not have to worry about it, never going to happen.

and if they did, would i care? no. because even they are smart enough to fit in with the architecture if they tried the plaza ( which they never would ) they would do what they do in other cities. fit the scene they are occupying.

with regards to downtown kansas city being the one downtown in all of america that does not have all the succesful chain retail, yeah, great idea. lets let it sit vacant while we pick and choose which botique retailers come to dt. instead of doing what milwaukee, houston, pittsburgh, chicago, new york and all the others have done, allowing the retail to build in their core. ours in kc is just too special to have occupied store fronts, we would prefer them empty while we wait on gucci, armani, and versaci.
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Re: Proposition: A downtown Macy's department store

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kcdcchef wrote: they put all kinds of chain shit on the country club plaza, and noone complains, cheesecake factory, barnes and noble, california pizza kitchen, armani, see a trend here bfa?
actually, the Chainification of the Plaza has been a major complaint of this site for a long time.  chain clothing stores are probably inevitable, but with restaurants the chain/independent ratio of the Plaza has been increasingly more "chain" over the last few years.  so it goes. 

so far, i think the P+L is doing the "chain" thing correctly, in that with the exception of Ted's, the chains are reasonably small, classy, and somewhat unique - ChinaBAR, Vin, Gimme Sum, etc. 

i think an urban Target would be great downtown.
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Re: Proposition: A downtown Macy's department store

Post by kcdcchef »

chrizow wrote: actually, the Chainification of the Plaza has been a major complaint of this site for a long time.  chain clothing stores are probably inevitable, but the chain/independent ratio of the Plaza has been increasingly more "chain" over the last few years.  so it goes. 

so far, i think the P+L is doing the "chain" thing correctly, in that with the exception of Ted's, the chains are reasonably small, classy, and somewhat unique - ChinaBAR, Vin, Gimme Sum, etc. 

i think an urban Target would be great downtown.
i have heard the complaining about the plaza chriz, but it is not as loud and as frequent.

and the fact of the matter is, the plaza resisted chain concepts for decades, and in the 70's and 80's IT FLOUNDERED. then when they let chain retail and chain restaurants come in during the last 15 years, it again is flourishing. there was almost no new construction, for like 20 some years. when that reversed in the early 90's, unos, cpizza kitchen, cheesecake factory, etc, it created a good mix that makes the plaza busier then it ever has been, and the proof is the hundreds of thousands of square feet of office space, and now residential, that is now going in over there.

but, yeah, the plaza was better in the 1970's with no construction happening, no offices full, no restaurants getting even used. shit, in the late 1980's there was VACANT retail on the plaza, VACANT. you want that back? we have it dt now, lets get it packed too.

then, when it bulges at the seams, like the plaza now is, then you can afford to pick and choose a little more.
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Re: Proposition: A downtown Macy's department store

Post by KC0KEK »

Didn't the Plaza have a lot of chains (e.g., Sears) for its first few decades? Or am I imagining things?
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Re: Proposition: A downtown Macy's department store

Post by kcdcchef »

KC0KEK wrote: Didn't the Plaza have a lot of chains (e.g., Sears) for its first few decades? Or am I imagining things?
yup. in the very begining it had sears, cook paint, hell, even a gc murphy's. by the 50's and 60's it was trying to become all local stuff.
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Re: Proposition: A downtown Macy's department store

Post by justin8216 »

advocrat wrote: If Macy's were to consider locating a store downtown, where could it be located?

Is there any existing building that could be developed into a department store?

Are there any news or rumors about a department store downtown? (MKB said that another downtown department store was one of her Mayoral dreams).

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A Macy's downtown? What a quaint dream.
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Re: Proposition: A downtown Macy's department store

Post by kc-vino »

I can state that I'm young and enjoy department stores.  They always seem to have the best deals.  While I don't go their for all the appliances and what not the clothes in department stores always have crazy good deals.  I think a smaller store like a marshall fields would do well in Kansas City's DT.  I would sure like to see something. 

Right now the retail versus people downtown ratio is ludicrous.  If you take out Halls, their are 4 places (bob jones, habitat, the new bblaze on 15th and grand, and Slabotsky's on 12th and Grand) to get any kind of clothes.  For the amount of wealth downtown and the young urban demographic the shopping is horrific.
Put your money where your mouth is...live downtown.  Get out of the car and walk, shop, and play in the city.  Don't bring a suburban attitude/lifestyle to the city, rather be apart of changing the urban fabric for the better.
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Re: Proposition: A downtown Macy's department store

Post by advocrat »

justin8216 wrote: A Macy's downtown? What a quaint dream.
Yeah, I know it sounds quaint, and I've thought to myself more than once (since starting this thread) if my proposition is merely simple nostalgia for days gone by. Realistically, there was a time before the original Macy's downtown, and the Jones Store and Emery, Bird & Thayer. The City has gone through constant change, and the mercantile dynamic changes along with it.  I haven't quite figured out why similar merchants in Chicago, New York, and elsewhere continue to thrive (I shopped in a downtown Macy's in Seattle, last year-6 floors and more tall).  But maybe some posters on this thread have a point and maybe Kansas City is in a different league (so to speak) as far what will work.

But back on the subject of quaint, Kansas City in 1960 was bustling with downtown shoppers and retail, the suburban malls were a few years in the future, as was the long decline following the closing of Emery Bird & Thayer.  I dream of the same level of street traffic and mercantile vitality that I remember as a youth.

I was in Metcalf South last night and walked from Sears to the "new" Macy's. Everything in between except a pet store is apparently closed up (but Macy's and Sears are hanging on, and waiting for the mall redevelopment that was recently announced. I wonder if the day of the mega-mall demise is truly over and I'm pretty sure that Town Center and the single super-Mall at Oak Park are doing well and the Macy's department store at Town Center is anticipating a spectacular Christmas.

If people will shop there, why wouldn't the growing downtown residents shop there also? I cannot believe that everyone who lives downtown has shopping needs that are exclusive to Target or boutiques. Visitors and conventioneers will shop in a downtown department store, if it's there. I did in Seattle.

Seven years ago I went downtown on rare occasions-nothing (and I'm not really exaggerating) was there: no Freighthouse District, no Liberty Memorial, no new Library, and my list can go on-and-on (like this message).

Quaint or not, I would like to see a department store development in the Town Pavilion, or nearby. City's are often defined by key points of interest; Kansas City does not enjoy remarkable geography or structures like a Space Needle, Golden Gate Bridge, Arch, historic district or Times Square. Having a viable, varied and expansive mercantile core is needed, and an important compliment to the Entertainment District.
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Re: Proposition: A downtown Macy's department store

Post by tat2kc »

Don't forget Michael's, on Main Street. A great clothing store.
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Re: Proposition: A downtown Macy's department store

Post by LenexatoKCMO »

Or Pidgeon for the ladies. 
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