KCRag Forum

Posted: **Thu Apr 07, 2022 3:17 pm**

earthling wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:57 pm It's not that it's glass, it's the lazy cut/copy/paste of pretty much same design using pretty much same glass. Respect lazy repetitive design? Sometimes repetition works like rowhouses properly pulled off as a sense of place but not in this case, where it could end up looking like communist bloc housing, especially when the newness wears off over decades. There's some variation but giving each building a completely unique identity avoids the possibility of mundane bloc housing. Can still target pretty much same interiors if it works but there's opportunity to mix that up as well - and it's easier to refresh interiors than exteriors over decades.

Modifying the fenestration on the south-facing facades would be an easy way to differentiate the buildings while the color of glazing and overall shape remains the same. Could also add a few bump-outs to break up the unified "wall" that the south facades have.

Posted: **Thu Apr 07, 2022 3:18 pm**

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:49 pm I still don’t get why everyone hates glass so much. I’m just worried about whether we’re getting ground floor retail facing the 670 deck

I think that's mostly lobby. Retail facing main. You can just look up the plans online if you care.

Posted: **Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:55 am**

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:49 pm I still don’t get why everyone hates glass so much. I’m just worried about whether we’re getting ground floor retail facing the 670 deck

It’s only a few people but earthling is the inventor of the term “monotonous Cordish wall” and has complained about it 50 or 60 times on here. I respect his/her opinion but disagree 150%. To me and I suppose the majority of people, there’s enough variation between buildings to not look like a housing project in Russia.

This idea of a “Cordish wall” was discussed by all decision makers and was not a concern. Symmetry between the buildings is important in this case. NYC perhaps you could get away with 4 or 6 drastically different buildings but this is Kansas City.

Posted: **Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:56 am**

normalthings wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 3:18 pm
AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:49 pm I still don’t get why everyone hates glass so much. I’m just worried about whether we’re getting ground floor retail facing the 670 deck
I think that's mostly lobby. Retail facing main. You can just look up the plans online if you care.

The majority of the ground floor will be retail.

Posted: **Fri Apr 08, 2022 8:01 am**

DColeKC wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:55 am
AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:49 pm I still don’t get why everyone hates glass so much. I’m just worried about whether we’re getting ground floor retail facing the 670 deck
This idea of a “Cordish wall” was discussed by all decision makers and was not a concern. Symmetry between the buildings is important in this case. NYC perhaps you could get away with 4 or 6 drastically different buildings but this is Kansas City.

A way to address this is to have 3 or 4 different unique base formats used for all Cordish projects across all cities they are in. That allows for variety per city but still get economies of scale. Or even better, change base design format per year or so and apply cost savings for pretty much same materials across all projects in active Cordish cities. Doing generally the same format every year in every city isn't necessary, it's lazy. Change it up every year or two rather than targeting what leans toward communist bloc housing.

Cordish has done wonders for KC and hopefully gets involved with downtown stadium but this is a long term impact even if just aesthetics. Don't see this aging well in a few decades.

Posted: **Fri Apr 08, 2022 8:45 am**

DColeKC wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:55 am Symmetry between the buildings is important in this case. NYC perhaps you could get away with 4 or 6 drastically different buildings but this is Kansas City.

I don't understand this point?

Posted: **Fri Apr 08, 2022 8:51 am**

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 8:45 am
DColeKC wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:55 am Symmetry between the buildings is important in this case. NYC perhaps you could get away with 4 or 6 drastically different buildings but this is Kansas City.
I don't understand this point?

Me neither? Just because we’re KC we’re supposed to have no variation between structures and should just accept the same glass facade facing south? 1 or 2 is okay, but once you start building the same thing next to each other it gets a little tired

Posted: **Fri Apr 08, 2022 9:00 am**

I’m all good with glass. I just want the design of it to be unique. Similarity is fine, just so long as it isn’t the same thing copied and pasted.

3 Light to me is a sibling but different enough. I think it looks good! It’s not another glass box

Posted: **Fri Apr 08, 2022 10:27 am**

^Another near clone is planned on stretch next to movie theater. Perhaps that can be avoided.

Posted: **Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:17 am**

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 8:45 am
DColeKC wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:55 am Symmetry between the buildings is important in this case. NYC perhaps you could get away with 4 or 6 drastically different buildings but this is Kansas City.
I don't understand this point?

Where to start.

NYC is a market that appreciates and affords to ability for one developer to build 3 or 4 sister buildings that are all radically different. They have the budget and the demand to fill these up at sky high rent.

KC is a midwestern market with midwestern budgets. The only way to make these buildings drastically different while working with the given footprint is to go higher, thus going bigger on the budget resulting in a required rent level that's not feasible in this market.

What sells apartments? The interiors, the location, the amenities. Not the outside, the shape or the glass used.

Posted: **Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:20 am**

earthling wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 10:27 am ^Another near clone is planned on stretch next to movie theater. Perhaps that can be avoided.

None of them are near clones and there's 3 more planned. Each will be unique like the existing ones.

Edit: Forgot to sign, "Cordish Boomer"

Posted: **Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:21 am**

That helps. That wasn't how I was reading that. Don't disagree. Thanks.

Posted: **Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:34 am**

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:21 am That helps. That wasn't how I was reading that. Don't disagree. Thanks.

I often suck at explaining myself on here.

Posted: **Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:34 am**

DColeKC wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:20 am
earthling wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 10:27 am ^Another near clone is planned on stretch next to movie theater. Perhaps that can be avoided.
None of them are near clones and there's 3 more planned. Each will be unique like the existing ones.

The only issue I really bring is the lack of real material differences. Designs are different enough to not bother me, but a difference of material would be a welcome change for the next few light buildings.

Posted: **Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:41 am**

I hear similar complaints in South Park but nobody complains about stretching he skyline and adding 10's of thousands of residents. Back to KC, One Light isn't iconic or anything but I like the design, Two Light is horrendous but I think Three Light is a huge step in the right direction.

Posted: **Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:12 pm**

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:21 am That helps. That wasn't how I was reading that. Don't disagree. Thanks.

Yeah I understood what he meant but it's not really a valid point because they have been doing pretty much same design aesthetic for nearly 10 years across several cities. It makes sense to do it for a couple years as you get great economies of scale on materials for pretty much all projects across many cities, but they can change up the design more significantly with significantly different external materials every couple years and still get economies of scale across projects in various cities during same time period. Market size isn't a factor.

Cordish was a catalyst for downtown residential towers and gets solid points but there is no good reason to do all nearly with same design aesthetic. for nearly 10 years, in every city. They did some projects elsewhere with more difference so clearly capable of it.

Some are starting to get the picture but others may not really get it until all 3 towers are complete in one stretch, too late.

Posted: **Fri Apr 08, 2022 1:48 pm**

earthling wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:12 pm
KCPowercat wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:21 am That helps. That wasn't how I was reading that. Don't disagree. Thanks.
Yeah I understood what he meant but it's not really a valid point because they have been doing pretty much same design aesthetic for nearly 10 years across several cities. It makes sense to do it for a couple years as you get great economies of scale on materials for pretty much all projects across many cities, but they can change up the design more significantly with significantly different external materials every couple years and still get economies of scale across projects in various cities during same time period. Market size isn't a factor.

Cordish was a catalyst for downtown residential towers and gets solid points but there is no good reason to do all nearly with same design aesthetic. for nearly 10 years, in every city. They did some projects elsewhere with more difference so clearly capable of it.

Some are starting to get the picture but others may not really get it until all 3 towers are complete in one stretch, too late.

Totally Agree. I think 3 Light might be okay so long as they change up 4 Light. If they build another similar building at 4 Light's location, it will look absolutely terrible. Especially from the south. And considering that those three buildings will literally block the entire CBD skyline from view from anybody at street level throughout much of the Crossroads, it will be looked on later as a pretty big urban design fail.

Posted: **Fri Apr 08, 2022 2:20 pm**

earthling wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:12 pm
KCPowercat wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:21 am That helps. That wasn't how I was reading that. Don't disagree. Thanks.
Yeah I understood what he meant but it's not really a valid point because they have been doing pretty much same design aesthetic for nearly 10 years across several cities. It makes sense to do it for a couple years as you get great economies of scale on materials for pretty much all projects across many cities, but they can change up the design more significantly with significantly different external materials every couple years and still get economies of scale across projects in various cities during same time period. Market size isn't a factor.

Cordish was a catalyst for downtown residential towers and gets solid points but there is no good reason to do all nearly with same design aesthetic. for nearly 10 years, in every city. They did some projects elsewhere with more difference so clearly capable of it.

Some are starting to get the picture but others may not really get it until all 3 towers are complete in one stretch, too late.

I thought 1L was their first apartment tower? 1 and 2 look pretty different imho. 3 will be darker but a wall is forming. Something as little as bump outs would help a lot and maybe even increase rentable sqft on each floor. 4 Light can use a “bump in” to make the N/S building and the E/W portion look like separate structures.

Posted: **Fri Apr 08, 2022 2:25 pm**

1L design was almost 10 years ago I think. Still pretty much same outer shell exterior materials.

Posted: **Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:35 pm**

I find it strange that people can't see the glass wall similarity as a negative. Their south facing walls are nearly identical. Because our skyline is short these buildings cover the density of what's behind them. That density used to be one of the things that made our short skyline unique. From the south these buildings will BECOME the new skyline. Why can't the glass color be different? What's wrong with that? If 4 is not radically different I see it as a negative. It's not my $$ and Cordish can do what they want but come on man, do the skyline a solid and get creative on 4's design.

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