KCRag Forum

No public subsidies, no Cerner.

Sounds like any large development anywhere in the KC metro area.

aknowledgeableperson wrote:

No public subsidies, no Cerner.

Sounds like any large development anywhere in the KC metro area United States.

FTFY

The total tax subsidies in the immediate Speedway area total over $1 billion.

Of course, the KC star which obsesses over cummulative dollar figures for KCMO Tiff plans has never been able to do the math on the Speedway.

The problem with the Speedway incentives is the economic activity is covering the debt load. Whereas with a few of KCMO's incentives the economic activity doesn't.

It is really more complex than that. There are two issues with the P&L. One is the necessity of it and its impact. The second is how the complex was financed. Those two issues would also apply to the whole speedway complex, of which Village West is part of.

With regards to the P&L yes the complex was a necessity and its impact has been great. But the finances of the P&L complex itself have been underperforming and therefore the general taxpayer subsidy. And that has been the lighting rod for the critical comments on the complex. TIF was the wrong way to go, or the pols could have been upfront and said there was no way for the complex to be self supporting and a large subsidy was necessary but worthwhile. The city could have gone the way of OKC and Tulsa and gone to the voters and ask for general tax increases for the whole of downtown development but I would imagine for many reasons the council decided to go the easy route and use TIF.

aknowledgeableperson wrote:The problem with the Speedway incentives is the economic activity is covering the debt load. Whereas with a few of KCMO's incentives the economic activity doesn't.

not really. The Legends sold on the courthouse steps. Several area big box stores have already closed. They're right on the edge of over extended on the area.

flyingember wrote:

aknowledgeableperson wrote:The problem with the Speedway incentives is the economic activity is covering the debt load. Whereas with a few of KCMO's incentives the economic activity doesn't.

not really. The Legends sold on the courthouse steps. Several area big box stores have already closed. They're right on the edge of over extended on the area.

Several? I can only think of Best Buy (along with 50+ others nationwide, and not located in Legends anyways) and Books A Million (which relocated and got a lot smaller, again part of a larger corporate failure)

not really. The Legends sold on the courthouse steps. Several area big box stores have already closed. They're right on the edge of over extended on the area.

That did not affect the status of public debt. No tax dollars lost. Tax revenues generated still cover debt payments for the area.

http://www.blockandco.com/b/a/54/313/Pl ... eedway.pdf Shoes Store and more spaces added.

Also next to Jack in the Box Fast Food Chain and next to Sam's Club Major Anchor coming.

KCMax wrote:Backfire BBQ closed

The article says that The Legends is moving to a more ful fledge outlet presence. This would mean all those Cerner workers stranded out there have one less option to go eat at and apparently, The Legends is going to push for more restaurants to depart... at least within the "mall" itself. Gah!

Do you think in 10-15 years Legends will look like the Great Mall or the one out in Odessa or even Warrenton by STL or does this one actually have staying power with the stuff around it

brewcrew1000 wrote:Do you think in 10-15 years Legends will look like the Great Mall or the one out in Odessa or even Warrenton by STL or does this one actually have staying power with the stuff around it

Perhaps take this with a grain of salt because I've never actually been out to the Great Mall. But I don't think the Village West/Legends area will look like Odessa because there is simply too much money invested. Even if the "Legends" shopping itself becomes a bunch of VF, Lee Jeans, and Mountain Man Nut & Fruit Co. outlets I still think the area will be busy because of the stadium/track, NFM, casino, and all the other retail developments.

I'm not saying I like this, but I do think it is how it will be.

smh wrote:

brewcrew1000 wrote:Do you think in 10-15 years Legends will look like the Great Mall or the one out in Odessa or even Warrenton by STL or does this one actually have staying power with the stuff around it

Perhaps take this with a grain of salt because I've never actually been out to the Great Mall. But I don't think the Village West/Legends area will look like Odessa because there is simply too much money invested. Even if the "Legends" shopping itself becomes a bunch of VF, Lee Jeans, and Mountain Man Nut & Fruit Co. outlets I still think the area will be busy because of the stadium/track, NFM, casino, and all the other retail developments.

I'm not saying I like this, but I do think it is how it will be.

I agree with you to a point, however, what happends if Legends pushes out all the eating/dining options? No where to eat before or after an event or what there is out there will be too busy to try and patronize if only a handful of places are left. I don't personally want to hit Wendy's or McDs and those places are packed around event times. The casino is a different animal and people usually spend their time/money within the casino. NFM?... When IKEA opens, how will that affect NFM's volume? EVERYONE I know intends to never go back to NFM once IKEA opens. Anyways, The only time I go out that direction is for Sporting (love them, hate the location) and Schlitterbahn. In the course of 5 visits to that area since the beginnning of the year, I've actually gone to a restaurant or store once outside of the event I was attending. Bleh.

brewcrew1000 wrote:Do you think in 10-15 years Legends will look like the Great Mall or the one out in Odessa or even Warrenton by STL or does this one actually have staying power with the stuff around it

The Legends is more like Branson or the one at Osage Beach, you go there for multiple things in the same area. it can be made part of a larger trip

Odessa built shopping that was based around cheap gas, much like Warrenton, you have to make a special effort to go there, even when passing by.

the question more becomes what type of stores lease space, that it will be there I think is a given. I don't see being a shopping district only as working, they need the whole package to work. go for lunch and hop into a shop for the convenience. pushing the food to the outskirts makes it too easy to park close to the restaurant to eat and then leave. the mixed setup is the plaza way and it will need to become the downtown way

geeman68 wrote:

smh wrote:

brewcrew1000 wrote: NFM?... When IKEA opens, how will that affect NFM's volume? EVERYONE I know intends to never go back to NFM once IKEA opens.

Have any of those people ever been to an IKEA?? That's like saying you'll never visit Long John Silvers again once Chipotle opens. They both have food but that's where the similarities end. NFM actually came out publicly in support of IKEA because it can only help their sales.

How many restaurants have already failed out there? A dozen?

longviewmo wrote:How many restaurants have already failed out there? A dozen?

Considering how often restaurants fail, that's probably about average. The concern would be if there were tons of empty spaces out there, but I haven't found that to be the case.