Kansas, Missouri battle over companies

[Eon Blue]

inner joco reminds me a little of inner st. louis county (where i live), and like inner st. louis county, inner joco seems much more willing to identify as "KC" and is an important sort of auxillary that quietly feeds the center city.

That's because they're starting to realize that as landlocked, aging suburbs they can no longer ride the suburban sprawl Ponzi scheme to success. They now have much more in common with the center city that they fed off of as they grew than the farther-out suburbs that are and will continue to leave them behind without so much as a second glance. St. Louis County is recognizing this as a whole as St. Charles and Jefferson Counties steal its thunder.

That said, it does the metro no good to kick them while they're down. Recognize that many of them have value to add to the city and go from there. Somewhere like Roeland Park is as close or closer to Downtown than Brookside and closer to the Plaza than Downtown is. With the right leadership, it and others could be retrofitted into something livable & sustainable. Thriving inner-ring suburbs do much more for the metro than another Grandview. That's why the lazy Missouri/Kansas division in everything is so irksome--places like Westwood, Roeland Park, Prairie Village and so on should really be lumped in with the neighborhoods of KCMO south of the Plaza than with the Masters of Sprawl (Olexawood Park, if you will) in southern & western JoCo - which you alluded to.

KC is actually much better off than St. Louis in this regard in that it only has a dozen or so munis in this situation instead of the 90 or so in St. Louis County.

[warwickland]

That's because they're starting to realize that as landlocked, aging suburbs they can no longer ride the suburban sprawl Ponzi scheme to success. They now have much more in common with the center city that they fed off of as they grew than the farther-out suburbs that are and will continue to leave them behind without so much as a second glance. St. Louis County is recognizing this as a whole as St. Charles and Jefferson Counties steal its thunder.

I think that it's important to note that some inner suburban municpalities in KC and StL are already benefiting from center-city revitalization while others (as you note) are suffering at the hands of sprawl and disinvestment. Older suburbs along I-64 and I-44 seem to be stable in St. Louis County (with the exception of the dysfunctional mid county retail musical chairs), or in the case of some, actually gentrifying. I don't know the situation in JoCo as well, but it seems to be the case that older parts of the I-35 corridor are doing better than the older parts of the I-70 corridor in metro Kansas City (similarly the I-70 corridor in St. Louis is troubled).

If I'm not mistaken, I think Roeland Park is on the right track, having retrofitted itself with new sidewalks a few years back, and municipalities across Mid St. Louis county are upgrading pedestrian infrastructure. Some of these inner suburban munipalities have really made it their mission to appeal to a more modern idea of livabilty, and aside from a move back into St. Louis City, I see no reason to ever leave Mid-County partially because of these recent efforts to improve quality of life. Middle ring suburbia is going to have a little more difficulty updating itself, although mid-JoCo with it's meshy grid is in a better position probably than the northland/east jack/st. charles.

The inner suburbs that can position themselves as being reasonably affordable, progressive, and have good school districts are going to be the winners. There are going to be a lot of urban dwellers and people who arent 100% comfortable with living in the "city city" alike who are just as uncomfortable with Olathe/St. Peters that will (and are) steer towards progressive inner suburbs for various reasons. I've noticed that the majority of my friends who are buying houses outside of the center-city are buying homes in older stable areas of St. Louis County and JoCo. I'm not seeing that many people buying on the fringe anymore - at all.

The most common complaint (especially in st. louis) is that new starter housing is now being built so far away from the urban center of the metro area as to be unnappealing - to people who arent even all that urban-minded - partially because socializing has decidedly shifted back to the urban core.

[rxlexi]

The most common complaint (especially in st. louis) is that new starter housing is now being built so far away from the urban center of the metro area as to be unnappealing - to people who arent even all that urban-minded - partially because socializing has decidedly shifted back to the urban core.

Maybe getting a bit off topic here but this is a major point that I hear often as well. The social scene for millenials and young couples (new restaurants, bars, breweries, the arts, shows, etc.) has moved decisively into a quasi-urban orbit in both KC and STL, and if you're living in southern/western JoCo or St. Charles County or Winghaven, etc. all of a sudden you're looking at a 30+ minute drive back home after meeting friends that are out and about at the hotspots.

This opinion seems even more dramatic in STL due to the strictly westward sprawl of so much of the "desirable" new housing. Downtown represents the eastern end point of the 40/64 corridor for most STLians rather than a central activity node (which Clayton/mid-county seems to be becoming), and new housing continues to develop on a damn near arrow straight line away from the city to the west along 40/64. Literally every single new western metro subdivision in STL is that much further from central county/downtown than the last.

[KCMax]

A version of the truce has passed both houses of the MO Legis. They just have to reconcile them now.

http://www.kansascity.com/2014/03/04/48 ... ccess.html

[pash]

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[herrfrank]

Ask anyone who lives in any JoCo muni where they live and they're probably say, "Kansas." Ask anyone in any Missouri-side municipality and they'll probably say their actual city or even neighborhood. That's my anecdotal experience, anyways.

There were two of us who matriculated from SME to a certain east-coast college in 1986. When people would ask where I was from, I'd always say "Kansas City," although I grew up a few blocks west of State Line. My classmate would tell everyone she was from Prairie Village, Kansas, which provoked consternation and necessitated the consultation of an atlas. She did this once at Thursday night tap in my company, and I asked her why she assumed our colleagues from Boston or Philadelphia might recognize a two-bit suburb with a hayseed name (nice as it is), when she could simply use the metro name which would be familiar to all.

[Eon Blue]

Did she say why she did it?

I'm curious if this is a KC-only thing or not. I went to college with a lot of STL-area types and they usually always said they were from St. Louis. It was only upon pressing that they would specify "South County" or "St. Charles" or whatever.

[brewcrew1000]

My Aunt lives in the Kentucky side of Cincinnati and my mom and her family would always refer to going to Kentucky to visit Aunt Mary, my Aunt Mary always referred to living in Kentucky as well and never Cincinnati. I tried to explain to my other Aunt Natalie that you should just refer to visiting Mary in Cincinnati because this place mary lives is a suburb of Cincinnati and this nice Suburb in Kentucky wouldn't exist if Cincy wasn't founded but she was completely clueless to it or any of my explanations because Cincy was in another state and has nothing to do with this Kentucky suburb. I even tried to break it down as if Santa Monica (Where she lives) was in Arizona and if you would refer to living in Arizona or just the LA metro but she still didn't understand the concept.

So I think people are just narrow-minded, clueless and don't really care when it comes to these things. I bet a lot of people say they are from New Jersey instead of New York even though the two places work together. Wonder how DC would work if you were from Maryland or Virginia side?

[herrfrank]

Did she say why she did it?

I'm curious if this is a KC-only thing or not. I went to college with a lot of STL-area types and they usually always said they were from St. Louis. It was only upon pressing that they would specify "South County" or "St. Charles" or whatever.

It was 30 years ago, and I cannot recall the exact words, but something along the lines of she grew up in Kansas not in Kansas City. I thought it was strange too, because people from the part of Prairie Village closer to me (old PV/ Village Church/ Homestead CC) always refer to their hometown as Kansas City. Same for Fairway and Westwood, etc. She lived south and near Nall in the new Leawood-esque part of PV. There is a line out there, somewhere near 83d street, where people start to disassociate with KC.

There were a couple of country boys in our freshman class who were from western Kansas, and of course when someone says Prairie Village, Kansas.... Well, guess what your more coastal colleagues are going to think.

The kids I knew who lived further afield, at BV and at SMNW definitely self-identified as from "Kansas" rather than "Kansas City."

Another related episode happened a couple of years later: I was shopping at Filene's in downtown crossing and bumped into another girl from my class at SME (who actually lived in Brookside but paid tuition to go to SME -- another thread topic perhaps). She was at Princeton or Penn I recall, and she was visiting Boston, looking through the necktie bin for some reason. Anyhow, I mentioned that I had been to a new restaurant "in the village" a couple of weekends before, and she and I laughed. Only people from our little corner of the world refer to "the village" to mean the PV shops rather than Greenwich Village in NYC.

[herrfrank]

Another Prairie Village anecdote:

Kansas Governor Robert Bennett when running the first time in the 1970s, advertised state-wide that he was from "the little Kansas town of Prairie Village" (although he was born in KC and was widely associated with KC including his law practice -- I'd see him on the Plaza all the time).

To this day I believe that if it had been known that he was really from Kansas City, or that PV was just a bedroom community of KC, it would have hurt his vote counts, especially out west.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Bowled with his son or nephew in the late 60's at Ranch Mart Bowl. He was a heavy kid

[bobbyhawks]

There is a line out there, somewhere near 83d street, where people start to disassociate with KC.

I grew up closer to 95th Street, and I would say most of the people in my neighborhood identified as Kansas Citians. Most of the shopping when I was little was over in Missouri anyhow. It may be because of the High School boundaries for SME. I would say that most of my friends who went to Brookwood Elementary off 103rd between Mission and Lee Blvd. identify as Kansas Citians. There is a distinction, though, with people who want to appear a certain way in a big city. I know some of my friends that moved away to NYC or LA almost get off on telling people they made it there all the way from "Kansas."

[chaglang]

I was shopping at Filene's in downtown crossing

Basement, or full price?

[warwickland]

Did she say why she did it?

I'm curious if this is a KC-only thing or not. I went to college with a lot of STL-area types and they usually always said they were from St. Louis. It was only upon pressing that they would specify "South County" or "St. Charles" or whatever.

I think the state line does have a lot to do with this. People from the Illinois side I think are apt to say that they are from Illinois just outside St. Louis (though people in Illinois don't usually just say they are from Illinois, like people do with Kansas). Whereas "St. Louis" has been known to extend west to that "YOU ARE NOW ENTERING IMOS COUNTRY" or the Fox Sports Midwest Cardinals sign, I think they are both pretty close together in Warren County.

[herrfrank]

I was shopping at Filene's in downtown crossing

Basement, or full price?

Upstairs although I miss both the basement and the regular department store. The building had a facade-ectomy a couple of years ago and remains an empty hole in downtown Boston to Mayor Menino's persistent chagrin.

[chingon]

I think the state line does have a lot to do with this. People from the Illinois side I think are apt to say that they are from Illinois just outside St. Louis (though people in Illinois don't usually just say they are from Illinois, like people do with Kansas). Whereas "St. Louis" has been known to extend west to that "YOU ARE NOW ENTERING IMOS COUNTRY" or the Fox Sports Midwest Cardinals sign, I think they are both pretty close together in Warren County.

Maybe. I think you guys are falling into a bit of confirmation bias vis-a-vis, what a shitty meto partner JoCo is (and for the record, I agree with that premise).

I think most people will tell someone else from the same metro (or with a knowledge of the metro) a more specific locale, and that it gets more general the farther away from one's home base the interlocutors are. Saying, "I'm from Kansas/OP/Leawood" is really no different than me telling people I live in "South Plaza". Case in point, I was in DC last month and was talking to a group of people. We were introducing ourselves and one of them said, "You're from KC? I'm from St Louis?" and when I said, "I love St Louis, we go there all the time, its a great day trip." He said, "Yeah I grew up in the suburbs, Baldwin, just southwest of the city."

I'm pretty sure if I had said, "I'm from St Louis", he would have said, "Really, where? I'm from Baldwin."

My point is, usually when you talk about KC, you're talking to someone from KC or who knows about KC, and people get a little more specific.

[Eon Blue]

Maybe. I think you guys are falling into a bit of confirmation bias vis-a-vis, what a shitty meto partner JoCo is (and for the record, I agree with that premise).

I think most people will tell someone else from the same metro (or with a knowledge of the metro) a more specific locale, and that it gets more general the farther away from one's home base the interlocutors are. Saying, "I'm from Kansas/OP/Leawood" is really no different than me telling people I live in "South Plaza". Case in point, I was in DC last month and was talking to a group of people. We were introducing ourselves and one of them said, "You're from KC? I'm from St Louis?" and when I said, "I love St Louis, we go there all the time, its a great day trip." He said, "Yeah I grew up in the suburbs, Baldwin, just southwest of the city."

I'm pretty sure if I had said, "I'm from St Louis", he would have said, "Really, where? I'm from Baldwin."

My point is, usually when you talk about KC, you're talking to someone from KC or who knows about KC, and people get a little more specific.

But OP/Leawood/South Plaza/etc. are clear subsets of the metro area. Kansas is overwhelmingly outside of the KC Metro (geographically, if not economically) so identifying with it implicitly denies an association with the KC metro as a result. I don't say that I'm from Missouri unless I think the person I'm talking to has never heard of KC.

[chingon]

But OP/Leawood/South Plaza/etc. are clear subsets of the metro area. Kansas is overwhelmingly outside of the KC Metro (geographically, if not economically) so identifying with it implicitly denies an association with the KC metro as a result. I don't say that I'm from Missouri unless I think the person I'm talking to has never heard of KC.

I would argue that "Kansas" is a clear subset of the metro area, even if Kansas is, in fact, overwhelmingly outside the KC metro, in the same way that "Virginia" is a clear subset of the DC metro. In fact, I just heard a person from DC say "I live in Virginia". He didn't mean Lynchburg. And he certainly was implicitly denying any association with DC.

[KCMax]

Kansas shoots down Missouri truce bill; Silvey fires back

Silvey’s bill, however, calls for enactment of similar legislation in Kansas before it goes into effect. And that doesn’t appear likely based on statements emanating this week from the Kansas Border Challenge Advisory Committee, which has been advising Kansas Secretary of Commerce Pat George on the truce issue.

“Silvey’s legislation was never a factor in anything being considered over here,” said Blake Schreck, president of the Lenexa Chamber of Commerce and a member of the advisory committee. “We feel that the key to any future discussions is (Missouri’s) implementation of some sort of discretionary policy that is at least similar to ours. ... That would be a logical first step in developing any sort of comprehensive regional policy.”

The Kansas Border Challenge Advisory Committee issued a statement Monday noting that most Kansas incentives, including the popular Promoting Employment Across Kansas, or PEAK, incentives, are offered at the discretion of the state’s Secretary of Commerce, giving the secretary the ability to limit the incentives’ use.

In Missouri, on the other hand, equivalent incentive programs, such as Missouri Quality Jobs, operate as entitlements.

[Highlander]

Score one - a significant one - for KCMO. While I hate the border war, it's good that Kansas feels the sting from time to time. Unfortunately, most of the moves end up at the Plaza or suburban KC.

http://www.kansascity.com/news/business ... 603c299d-1