Re: The Midland Lofts (formerly Midland Office Building)
Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:39 pm
It's still there and that place is a great example of why I think one would work. That one isn't known outside of that building.
Most of these haven't sat empty since 2007.KCPowercat wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:51 amThese two along 13thDColeKC wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:26 amWhat locations besides 14th/main and the alley retail location next to Garment has sat empty since 2007?KCPowercat wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:26 am The pandemic would be a more valid excuse if these hadn't been sitting empty since they were built in 2007.
I don't doubt Cordish is trying, I'm just saying maybe it's time for a new perspective. Seems Cordish is almost totally focused on "entertainment". There is still demand for retail.
We all know retail has plummeted in demand. Most downtown residents get everything delivered. Cordish has been in talks with Target for a few years about this market and other cities. That deal could check all the boxes and if it happens in the next few years, is totally worth not putting in a single clothing tenant or solo convenience store that would just be crushed by a Urban Target.
Leasing an entire district is a long term game and not always about just getting every space full like a shopping mall.
I think it appears they're focused on entertainment more because that's a growing sector in this country as opposed to retail.
https://goo.gl/maps/YtXWzuq114JkXX5N6
As mentioned 1400 Main
https://goo.gl/maps/XSWK32cYCudjq4Go8
This space
https://goo.gl/maps/8TjbLrqzfBAZJ6KV7
Base of H&R
https://goo.gl/maps/4gu6bi8z3RWLFabJ8
Space by Tmo/Sprint store
https://goo.gl/maps/XwW1XKTe2pT3QTiL6
These 3 along main
https://goo.gl/maps/XGGs3F1yK9qyAy9JA
The district paid rent to use it just as JE Dunn pays rent to use the space next to Rally House. I'm not seeing the three locations you speak of on main? I'd say getting rent out of an empty space until someone wants to lease it for ten years is a great.KCPowercat wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:53 pm using them as maintenance buildings and construction offices was not what the city/residents was sold when we were building this. That's not filling the space, sorry. That's not what incentives were provided to do.
The 3 along main don't include Kaldi's space. There are 3 other storefronts there in that shot.
Hey I get it's hard especially now. That's why I said maybe it's time for a fresh perspective / leasing approach.
Huh? Yeah, you use whatever space you can and pay rent on the space until a 3rd party is interested in that space. This whole damn area is "street front", there are no back alley hidden areas where all the behind the scenes magic happen like a freakin disney world.KCPowercat wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:08 pm For sure. It's called back of the house for a reason. You don't use your streetfront retail spaces for it unless you can't rent them out to actual tenants.
Three spaces are next to Polished then 2 spaces south of the garage entrance. Using it as a leasing showroom isn't profitable to the city or useful to residents.
I'd say a clean and functioning downtown district is highly beneficial to residents. Ever heard the saying, "anything is for sale for the right price"? Well, when someone comes along and wants to rent a space that's being used for in-house purposes, you find a new home for those purposes.KCPowercat wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:27 pm So you're here to tell us that Cordish designed this whole neighborhood, didn't build in necessary back of the house space, so when this was presented to the city planning department, it was always part of the plan to use these streetfront spaces for operations and maintenance? What an idiotic plan that the city should never have sent back to be reworked.
If that is the case, why suddenly can the space on 13th be "cleaned up" and leased out now? Maintenance and operations is now not needed?
Let's say a retailer comes in and wants that space next to Meshuggah? Is it not available to lease? I mean operations/maintenance space is needed right?
Speaking of Meshuggah, how can they make it, don't they know bagels are sold 300 feet away in the grocery store? Same as a c-store would sell some of the same things Cosentino's does now?
Until it leases, yes. The area on 13th across from the Midland has always been shown but isn't exactly "prime" location material.beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:36 pm So your back of house is prime street front retail? Why not use the space above BRGR or “the Gallery” or put a trailer in the Strata lot?
So my point of those never being used for their built purpose since 2007 remains valid. Gotcha. Let's get another leasing agent a shot at finding that right price to fill up these spaces.DColeKC wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:37 pmI'd say a clean and functioning downtown district is highly beneficial to residents. Ever heard the saying, "anything is for sale for the right price"? Well, when someone comes along and wants to rent a space that's being used for in-house purposes, you find a new home for those purposes.KCPowercat wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:27 pm So you're here to tell us that Cordish designed this whole neighborhood, didn't build in necessary back of the house space, so when this was presented to the city planning department, it was always part of the plan to use these streetfront spaces for operations and maintenance? What an idiotic plan that the city should never have sent back to be reworked.
If that is the case, why suddenly can the space on 13th be "cleaned up" and leased out now? Maintenance and operations is now not needed?
Let's say a retailer comes in and wants that space next to Meshuggah? Is it not available to lease? I mean operations/maintenance space is needed right?
Speaking of Meshuggah, how can they make it, don't they know bagels are sold 300 feet away in the grocery store? Same as a c-store would sell some of the same things Cosentino's does now?
If a retailer really wanted that space, Cordish would figure it out. You can't get what Meshuggah produces in the grocery store next door, so dumb attempt to justify a c-store.
Using storefront for back of house wasn't part of the plan but it's a way to fill a space and get some rent out of it as opposed to sitting empty. Notice how they picked one of the lesser desirable locations. Once the place is entirely leased, it's likely maintenance would be off-site and out of the district, paying rent to someone else. That's always been the long-term plan.
I think it's hilarious you think a different leasing agent would have any better luck. I also find it funny you think Cordish for some reason doesn't want to increase it's profits and just let places sit empty? You obviously have no clue how real the struggle is in retail leasing not only now, but over the last decade.KCPowercat wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:54 pmSo my point of those never being used for their built purpose since 2007 remains valid. Gotcha. Let's get another leasing agent a shot at finding that right price to fill up these spaces.DColeKC wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:37 pmI'd say a clean and functioning downtown district is highly beneficial to residents. Ever heard the saying, "anything is for sale for the right price"? Well, when someone comes along and wants to rent a space that's being used for in-house purposes, you find a new home for those purposes.KCPowercat wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:27 pm So you're here to tell us that Cordish designed this whole neighborhood, didn't build in necessary back of the house space, so when this was presented to the city planning department, it was always part of the plan to use these streetfront spaces for operations and maintenance? What an idiotic plan that the city should never have sent back to be reworked.
If that is the case, why suddenly can the space on 13th be "cleaned up" and leased out now? Maintenance and operations is now not needed?
Let's say a retailer comes in and wants that space next to Meshuggah? Is it not available to lease? I mean operations/maintenance space is needed right?
Speaking of Meshuggah, how can they make it, don't they know bagels are sold 300 feet away in the grocery store? Same as a c-store would sell some of the same things Cosentino's does now?
If a retailer really wanted that space, Cordish would figure it out. You can't get what Meshuggah produces in the grocery store next door, so dumb attempt to justify a c-store.
Using storefront for back of house wasn't part of the plan but it's a way to fill a space and get some rent out of it as opposed to sitting empty. Notice how they picked one of the lesser desirable locations. Once the place is entirely leased, it's likely maintenance would be off-site and out of the district, paying rent to someone else. That's always been the long-term plan.
Name a few? I'm not saying Cordish is so great people should come begging to hand them money for a space. I'm sure the price difference between some spots in the crossroads and PNL is sizable.
I didn't say storage. It was a workshop where district items were maintained and repaired. It was kept unfinished so prospective clients could see the space as they would get it. It did take all this time to get someone to rent that particular spot. Before the pandemic, the district was 95% leased which I'd imagine is above the national average and better than the Crossroads, Wesport or Plaza, but I'm not sure on that.KCPowercat wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:17 pm rent is rent, very true, my guess is district maintenance isn't paying what an actual store would. District maintenance also doesn't bring in sales tax which was one of the selling points for the district and part of the financial breakdown for the funding and incentives the city threw in. That was their built purpose. Not to house mulch.
I don't have any idea if someone else would have better luck. I know that Cordish has had 14 years (almost 20 if you consider they would have been leasing as construction began) so the struggle over the last decade only accounts for half of it. I do understand it's not easy as I've stated multiple times.
I'm quite confident I know how how much foot traffic 13th has given my mode of transport is walking and use 13th all the time.
This is the point. Maybe, you're overestimating what the difference in cost should be for the two.