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[AJoD]

Unrelated to this thread, found this the other day:

http://saveshawneemissionschooldistrict.org/

Clearly, Blue Valley is the new Shawnee Mission, but I thought this was a little odd.  I guess it's good to be proactive rather than run if you've got a problem.

Also...

I'm curious how many who are so critical of schooling choices have had to face the issue with their own kids--or perhaps more to the point--with their own wife and kids.  It's a harder practical choice than theoretical.

We've got a choice, two SMSD elementary schools.  One that we're in the district for, another one we're not.

The school we're in the district for:

--about as far north in JoCo as you can get
--so-so facility
--behavior seemed poor on school tour
--principal and faculty (very brief conversations) okay
--little evidence of parental involvement
--probably lower socio-economic profile overall
--probably more racially diverse
--higher school lunch %
--worse ratings on test scores, etc


The alternative:

--Prairie Village, a bit closer to our home
--brand new facility
--apparently well-behaved classes
--impressive principal and faculty
--highly involved PTA
--probably higher socio-economic profile overall
--probably less racially diverse
--lower school lunch %
--better ratings on test scores, etc

So what do you do?  I point out such metrics as school lunch % and test score ratings not because I think those are important measures of a good school, but they seem to be the ones on rating sites because, well, they're measurable.

It's pretty hard to justify going to a school that appears worse in most ways because 1) you're assigned to that school or 2) there's more racial diversity.

And this is a choice between two schools that are, in reality, probably pretty darn similar.  Imagine the choice if the gulf is wider.

[kcmetro]

Unrelated to this thread, found this the other day:

http://saveshawneemissionschooldistrict.org/

Clearly, Blue Valley is the new Shawnee Mission, but I thought this was a little odd.  I guess it's good to be proactive rather than run if you've got a problem.

Also...

I'm curious how many who are so critical of schooling choices have had to face the issue with their own kids--or perhaps more to the point--with their own wife and kids.  It's a harder practical choice than theoretical.

We've got a choice, two SMSD elementary schools.  One that we're in the district for, another one we're not.

The school we're in the district for:

--about as far north in JoCo as you can get
--so-so facility
--behavior seemed poor on school tour
--principal and faculty (very brief conversations) okay
--little evidence of parental involvement
--probably lower socio-economic profile overall
--probably more racially diverse
--higher school lunch %
--worse ratings on test scores, etc


The alternative:

--Prairie Village, a bit closer to our home
--brand new facility
--apparently well-behaved classes
--impressive principal and faculty
--highly involved PTA
--probably higher socio-economic profile overall
--probably less racially diverse
--lower school lunch %
--better ratings on test scores, etc

So what do you do?  I point out such metrics as school lunch % and test score ratings not because I think those are important measures of a good school, but they seem to be the ones on rating sites because, well, they're measurable.

It's pretty hard to justify going to a school that appears worse in most ways because 1) you're assigned to that school or 2) there's more racial diversity.

And this is a choice between two schools that are, in reality, probably pretty darn similar.  Imagine the choice if the gulf is wider.

Great example.  It's easy for people on here to sit back and judge others, but until they're in that same position, they won't know how they would act.

[chrizow]

there's nothing wrong with evaluating schools for your children.  no one expects anyone to blindly send their children to whatever random school is nearby, if there is a better option available.  

we plan to send our kid(s) to acadamie lafayette, which has the benefit of being both diverse and a good school with an interesting, international faculty.  after 8th grade, we'll just have to see what the options are (since this is a minimum of about 15 years away and anything could happen).  maybe they'll go to Lincoln, or another viable KCMO public high school, or maybe we'll pony up to send them to some private school.  either way, the kids will grow up in KCMO.

here's what i would like to know:  whether the suburbanites who use the "schools" justification to flee to the 'burbs actually know very many families who send their kids to public or even private schools in KCMO.  we know several households that send their kids to A.L., lincoln, gordon parks, gladstone elem., etc and they all seem to love it, and their kids are well-adjusted, intelligent, etc.  it is quite simply a falsehood that families do not have access to a good education for their kids in KCMO. 

[KCPowercat]

Nobody has once said anywhere on here that people shouldn't do what is best for their kids. Quit setting up strawman arguments.

Not everybody has kids and frankly like Lenexa points out even if some think they are doing what's best for their kids, they are doing it with illogical fears and stereotypes. That is all that has been said relating to schools. If I'm ever inthe situation to make education decisions for a child, better believe I would do everything in my power to make the right choice....nobody faults people making good decisions based on good information. Many don't make those decisions on the best info.

[beautyfromashes]

we plan to send our kid(s) to acadamie lafayette, which has the benefit of being both diverse and a good school with an interesting, international faculty.  

Shhhh!!!! Don't you know that there is a waiting list? God forbid my kid (or yours) doesn't make it in cause you're running your mouth about how great it is.

[chrizow]

Don't you know that there is a waiting list?

(not for AL teachers.  )

[AJoD]

To be clear, we didn’t move to KS for the schools and would have certainly been happy with the quality public options in MO (love the idea of Lafayette) or sending to private school or home schooling, which we did until this year.  Schools were a pretty minimal factor for us.

KCPowercat, I don’t think anyone here faults people for making the best choices for their kids, and that to me is the strawman.  All these unthinking drones of parents making poor choices on poor information, foregoing a great situation in the city for the relative ease but equal opportunity of schools in the ‘burbs…who are they?  If you're criticizing people for their school choice, and you're not criticizing them for doing what they think is best for their kid, than it seems like you're implying they aren't (whatever...smart? tolerant? progressive?) enough to make the right choice.

I don’t like the school-driven flight from the city either, and I’m also not above calling out whole generalized segments of the population for what I think of their stupid choices.

But on this particular issue, having to actually think about school decisions for my own kids has proven a more challenging task then I thought it would before I had them.

[KCPowercat]

My comments were towards metro.....but yes I think people aren't thinking things through all the time with the best data. We have seen it here in this thread.....people thinking the only option if they have a kid is to load up the truck and move to the burbs where they are assured great schools. I am not even close to being educated about schools other than where I attended but if somebody dropped a kid at my door tomorrow you'd better believe I'm not going to blindly move out of downtown because that's what the majority in kc has been trained to do.

I don't fault one person for thinking of their kids and wanting the beat for them.  I do fault them for working on stereotypes or poor information. Kids can get a great education from more locations than 175th and metalf.....

[beautyfromashes]

If your goal is to raise nice little KU fraternity/sorority kids then the only educated decision is moving to the burbs.  If you want your kids to be wellrounded adults who care about the real problems of this world, including homelessness, drug abuse, racial descrimination, then the city is a great place to raise a family.  You have to understand that there are differing issues and pitfalls in both scenarios. 

[kcmetro]

If your goal is to raise nice little KU fraternity/sorority kids then the only educated decision is moving to the burbs.  If you want your kids to be wellrounded adults who care about the real problems of this world, including homelessness, drug abuse, racial descrimination, then the city is a great place to raise a family.  You have to understand that there are differing issues and pitfalls in both scenarios. 

Because people who are raised in suburbs don't care about racial discrimination or poverty.  They only care about KU basketball and getting wasted on Mass St.  &&&

[beautyfromashes]

Because people who are raised in suburbs don't care about racial discrimination or poverty.  They only care about KU basketball and getting wasted on Mass St.  &&&

Do you really care about something that you never experience or even see? 

[kcmetro]

Do you really care about something that you never experience or even see? 

I guess you're right.  I guess nobody around here really cares about the war in the middle east, the gulf oil spill, 9/11, North Korea...

[beautyfromashes]

I guess you're right.  I guess nobody around here really cares about the war in the middle east, the gulf oil spill, 9/11, North Korea...

Who cares more about the gulf oil spill- someone in New Orleans or Mississippi who is directly effected or someone in Australia?  9/11- someone who lived in Manhattan and saw the destruction or a farmer in Nebraska? Let's get honest, it's mostly out of sight, out of mind. If you don't see it, it's not your problem.

[kcmetro]

Who cares more about the gulf oil spill- someone in New Orleans or Mississippi who is directly effected or someone in Australia?  9/11- someone who lived in Manhattan and saw the destruction or a farmer in Nebraska? Let's get honest, it's mostly out of sight, out of mind. If you don't see it, it's not your problem.

Just because you see it doesn't mean you're doing anything to solve it.  You might see a bum outside your door everyday on your way to work.  Does that change anything?  No, you just see more poor people.  Are you going to invite the drunk in off the street and give him your spare bedroom rent free?  How are you going to help solve homelessness now that you see it on a daily basis?

And saying that people who live in the suburbs aren't inclined to care about racial discrimination is quite an ignorant statement, as if all suburb dwellers are members of the KKK. 

[LenexatoKCMO]

KCPowercat, I don’t think anyone here faults people for making the best choices for their kids, and that to me is the strawman. 

Define "best choice".  I will freely admit that sending your kid to the homogenous, no-minority, no poor kids, no-gov't lunch school may well give your kid a better short term chance in life.  Odds are there will be fewer distractions, etc.  But that is a contrived and unsustainable reality.  The only way that ideal "good school" can exist is to keep sprawling further and further out, stay ahead of the minorities and poor kids and keep abandoning every other school as soon as any challenging pupils start to show up.  Without constant induced sprawl, that "good school" without minorities and gov't lunch kids can't exist.  Is it really in the best interest of anyone's kids to contribute to this unsustainable, damaging cycle that will ultimately leave them living with a future of hundreds of miles of blighted, boom/bust suburban disaster, just to give them a minor leg up in the short term?

[shinatoo]

If your goal is to raise nice little KU fraternity/sorority kids then the only educated decision is moving to the burbs.  If you want your kids to be wellrounded adults who care about the real problems of this world, including homelessness, drug abuse, racial descrimination, then the city is a great place to raise a family.  You have to understand that there are differing issues and pitfalls in both scenarios. 

If you think there is no homelessness, drug abuse, or racial discrimination in the burbs then I believe, you sir, are the ignorant one.

If this post sums up your world view then you are a sad little person.

[beautyfromashes]

If you think there is no homelessness, drug abuse, or racial discrimination in the burbs then I believe, you sir, are the ignorant one.

If this post sums up your world view then you are a sad little person.

First, I never said that there was not homelessness or drug abuse in the suburbs.  I said that people that are confronted with problems of the world are more likely to want to solve those problems.  If you never see a problem, why would you make the effort to go out of your way and fix it?  But, let's just take the race issue and the 'best' school in the metro, Blue Valley North HS.  There are 1500 students, 66 black.  You mean to tell me that these 1500 students who probably don't even see a black student in any of their classes is not going to have a different view on race? Do you really think they are going to understand the different culture they don't even see?  The same goes with poverty and drug abuse. While you might be able to find those with these problems in Leawood, I doubt to near the scale of the city, and thus, there is less urgency to work to fix them.

[bbqboy]

First, I never said that there was not homelessness or drug abuse in the suburbs.  I said that people that are confronted with problems of the world are more likely to want to solve those problems.  If you never see a problem, why would you make the effort to go out of your way and fix it?  But, let's just take the race issue and the 'best' school in the metro, Blue Valley North HS.  There are 1500 students, 66 black.  You mean to tell me that these 1500 students who probably don't even see a black student in any of their classes is not going to have a different view on race? Do you really think they are going to understand the different culture they don't even see?  The same goes with poverty and drug abuse. While you might be able to find those with these problems in Leawood, I doubt to near the scale of the city, and thus, there is less urgency to work to fix them.

should well off black folks be saddled with added  responsibility and guilt for their less fortunate brethren, beyond what white folks feel?

[AJoD]

If your goal is to raise nice little KU fraternity/sorority kids then the only educated decision is moving to the burbs.  If you want your kids to be wellrounded adults who care about the real problems of this world, including homelessness, drug abuse, racial descrimination, then the city is a great place to raise a family.  You have to understand that there are differing issues and pitfalls in both scenarios.

And in the city, you learn tolerance and respect for others!

Seriously, I respect your decision to raise the kids in the city, and I don't know who is suggesting that "the only educated decision" is to move to the suburbs, but really....what are you talking about?

Where do you have to live to "really care about the real problems of this world"?  Hyde Park?  I'd think you could get a little closer to hookers and drug dealers if you really care, you know, to really understand what it's like.

I'm not trying to make light of what I think your broader point is, there are plenty of people who lead what I would grossly classify as leading sheltered lives.  For sure there are pitfalls no matter where you choose to live, but I still think you're painting with a pretty broad brush and a lot of vitriol.

[kuslamb]

And in the city, you learn tolerance and respect for others!

Seriously, I respect your decision to raise the kids in the city, and I don't know who is suggesting that "the only educated decision" is to move to the suburbs, but really....what are you talking about?

Where do you have to live to "really care about the real problems of this world"?  Hyde Park?  I'd think you could get a little closer to hookers and drug dealers if you really care, you know, to really understand what it's like.

I'm not trying to make light of what I think your broader point is, there are plenty of people who lead what I would grossly classify as leading sheltered lives.  For sure there are pitfalls no matter where you choose to live, but I still think you're painting with a pretty broad brush and a lot of vitriol.