OFFICIAL - Main Street Streetcar Extension

[flyingember]

for a good list of urban corridors. it's from around the period Troost MAX was under construction.

http://www.kcsmartmoves.org/pdf/Impleme ... REPORT.pdf
start on PDF page 19

Main to the Plaza
Troost from Indep Ave to Bannister, Volker/Clever
Indep Ave
Truman Rd
N. Oak to 152
State to 635
Shawnee Mission Parkway to Metcalf and then Metcalf to about old OPKS
US 40 to Indep Center

and having driven down many of these corridors they have several things in common

lots of old retail
lots of old apartment complexes
lots of empty lots

[DaveKCMO]

little know fact: that is how MAX main street was originally proposed. midtown leadership ask for, and received, more stops.

[smh]

little know fact: that is how MAX main street was originally proposed. midtown leadership ask for, and received, more stops.

Intermeddlers!

[pash]

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[flyingember]

Oddly enough, I think Brookside/Waldo is one of the only areas outside of downtown that could support a locally funded streetcar line. A special assessment on all real property could fund a line, and I don't think it's completely bonkers to think a properly drawn-up TDD might actually have some hope of passing at the ballot box.

With that sort of funding strategy, I could see the line going as far south as 75th. Otherwise, fuck it.

I doubt it could. the homes along there don't even begin to get near the value of downtown in total. A single tower can have the property value of an entire neighborhood. and unlike downtown, the benefit quickly reaches nothing to homeowners further out which cuts interest in paying for it. the point made earlier about little redevelopment benefit will show up in voters decisions.

There are a great many surface lots around the Brookside Shops that could be turned into four-story apartment buildings, and the heart of Waldo at 75th and Wornall could easily be re-developed with several big residential buildings.

the problem is the property ownership. one argument is all about conversion but people have to look at who owns the lots.

while the kata owns the lots in line with the trail, does anyone think that the business owners are just going to give up their parking spots? we're decades out from those neighborhoods being non-car based. this is the start of the suburbs after all and a line to Waldo is going to drive development accordingly.

major intersections are more likely to remain places that cars come to for the foreseeable future. it's where someone will leave their car and hop on the line to go into more urban areas to the north

because the majority of potential transit users for the area do not live less than 3-4 blocks away from any potential corridor.

[DaveKCMO]

i wouldn't pretend to understand the arrangements for parking within the CC ROW. i will inquire with those who would actually know.

[loftguy]

It is starting to dawn on me that if only I knew everything it would be much easier to get through the day.

Damn. So many years wasted....

[aknowledgeableperson]

Well, to continue the discussion about the Country Club route. I can see some trouble in Brookside over the loss of parking. Plus around Sutherland's and between 74th and 75th Streets.

Not much of a tax base to support it but I do think there would be neighborhood support but a lot of negative from the commercial interests over the parking.

[pash]

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[DaveKCMO]

your TDD assessment calculation is incorrect. it's $0.70 per $100 of assessed value for residential. the only calculation that counts is based on assessed value. you'd have to know that number for the properties you're discussing.

so let's take a specific property -- 207 W. 74th Terrace, a block from the CC ROW and the existing Waldo MAX stop -- which has an assessed value of $18,620. their 2013 TDD assessment at the same rate as downtown would be $130.34. for comparison, that home's market value is $98,000.

[DaveKCMO]

confirmed that all of the parking within the CC ROW is leased from ATA. there are about 30 leases, which cover maintenance costs for the trail. maintenance of a trail would be a valid expense for a TDD.

[pash]

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[Pork Chop]

your TDD assessment calculation is incorrect. it's $0.70 per $100 of assessed value for residential. the only calculation that counts is based on assessed value.

I was using the Downtown Neigborhood Association's numbers, which translate 70¢ per $100 of assessed value into $133 per $100,000 of market value.

I think that's correct, and your example suggests it is—but I used $266 per $100,000 of market value in my calculations above, double the actual rate. Whoops! ... I think I had in mind an average market value in denser blocks of $200,000, so doubled the rate to estimate the numbers, but then I forgot I'd done so when I wrote things down and ended up doubling again.

Anyway, this makes clear that a Brookside/Waldo TDD is not feasible as the sole means of financing a streetcar line there. The assessment rate would have to be double the rate of the downtown TDD to bring in roughly enough cash. ... It would take new annual taxes of $500+ on a $200,000 house, or $1,000+ on a $400,000 house, and that isn't realistic.

Russ Johnson has been saying that in order to extend the streetcar KC will need to have a 50% match from the federal government.

[pash]

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[DaveKCMO]

phase 2 corridor meetings scheduled: http://nextrailkc.com/milestones/events/

[flyingember]

Piece of information to save.

http://www.marc.org/2040/Land-Use_Direc ... idors.aspx

MARC and its transit and local government partners have identified six corridors that are the highest priority for the region to develop as the backbone of this transit system

North Oak Trafficway
State Avenue
Metcalf Avenue / Shawnee Mission Parkway
Troost Avenue
Rock Island corridor
U.S. Highway 24/40

Shawnee Mission/Metcalf comes off of this corridor.

[DaveKCMO]

not going to start a separate thread for the country club right-of-way, but that corridor workshop was tonight and very well attended (est: 77?). all positive, but lots of concerns about parking for brookside/waldo shops (most of the larger lots are leased from KCATA and in the ROW). plenty of opportunities for shared public parking on both 'hoods -- NOT park and rides -- that would add to the total number of spaces.

consultants seem to think street-running is an option, but that would only increase the cost per mile. my money is on using the ROW, shared with the trail, all the way to dodson. there's some talk about a single track, which would also reduce the cost per mile of this segment (that limits frequency, but not sure how much until the length is known).

[flyingember]

I think a mixed setup has promise. it's not an either or idea. use the row as much as possible and where necessary, cut into the street.

the expansion in Houston is mixed for example. the new SE line segment in downtown is street running, then it briefly moves to a dedicated row and then back to the street. it even follows a rail-trail trail for part of it. turn off the 45 degree view and the aerial view in google maps shows just how tight the new trail is to the trail. it shows it doesn't take much space to fit both into a corridor

[DaveKCMO]

the ONLY reason to shift to the street is to avoid surface parking lots. you have a perfectly preserved ROW, use it.

build two small, shared parking garages -- one next to brookside shops, another next to waldo shops. add on-street parking to quiet the traffic on adjacent streets and then you're done.

oh, and stop at 75th street until cerner chips in to go to their campus.

[PumpkinStalker]

The set up at these workshops is about 45 minutes of slides and information, then about 45 minutes of small group discussion. At our table we had a few Brookside property owners who declined to name their business, but said the loss of spaces in that awkward little lot behind the Roasterie would be harmful to their business. They didn't seem thrilled with the street car in general and really weren't helpful to the discussion. Neither of them lived in KC proper by the way. One lived in OP, not sure the other. They left 3/4 of the way through when they realized 95% of the people in the workshop were very supportive.

One idea my table had was move the tennis courts over to the Border Star school asphalt area. There is plenty of room, it's not used for parking, it's just a massive asphalt lot for recess. No reason two tennis courts couldn't be placed there. Then a small garage, maybe one level underground, two levels above could be placed on the area where the courts are today.

My favorite idea however is to demolish that ugly ass blue building and replace that with parking.

In Waldo, there is a huge lot behind Dave Smith, One More Cup, etc. I'm told it's owned by the Keystone Church at 74th/Wornall (where our event was last night). But if the street car stays true to the right of way, then something could be worked out to use that lot for business parking. The church only uses it Sunday, and even then I've never in my 5 years of living a half block away seen it even half full. It would be more spaces than is currently available in the right of way by Tanners, Waldo Pizza, etc. And of course, there is a huge lot by CVS that I've never seen more than half full as well. Paint a line, and post signs that parking in front of the line is for CVS, Aldi, etc parking only, then behind the line can be used for the bars/shops along Wornall.