We need a new airport!!!

[Highlander]

I think the point is that hubs can be effective connecting cities rather than destination cities. They can be destinations, too; but conceivably international flights originating or terminating in Omaha, Minneapolis, St. Louis, Memphis, Oklahoma City, etc. could connect through KC rather than Dallas, Houston, Chicago, Denver.

That's absolutely the case. Most cities in the US aren't large enough to create enough demand for European flights on their own but many do because they are focus cities for airlines. Passenger concentration creates the opportunity. KC will never experience that with KCI like it is. It may never experience it with a new terminal either but the chance that it would happen is infinitely greater than with the current terminal situation.

I don't know why people think KCI is convenient. Direct flights are convenient. Sitting in a hub waiting for the next flight is everything Im2kull argues against. KCI works against more direct flights and against any international flights due to its inefficiency. The airlines do not like it and that hurts the city do anything more than the minimum service for the number of flights the population can muster. I flew up to KCI a couple of weeks ago from Houston - the flight choices were pathetic for a city of KC's size.

[pash]

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[earthling]

I flew up to KCI a couple of weeks ago from Houston - the flight choices were pathetic for a city of KC's size.

^No doubt KCI options are not great and worse than when it peaked but many cities are even worse off due to airline consolidation.

KCI went up 7 notches since 2005 and is ranked 32nd even though fewer flights. Considering many markets have multiple airports, KCI probably ranks about 27th in terms of market, which is about right. Poor STL used to be ranked top 10 and is now ranked 31st, just one notch above KCI and below market size. A bunch of markets larger than KC lost a lot more flights and are ranked lower than KCI. Sort by year 2005 and you can see who KCI passed up...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_th ... ted_States

The problem is that airlines are focusing on the top 20 airports for now. It's not just about KCI. Indy opened a new $1.1B terminal several years ago yet slipped down several notches to 50th, lower than Ft. Meyers, ouch.

Airline consolidation is the sole reason. Now that economy is slowly returning, fuel prices are steady and US is producing more oil, maybe fuel prices will be predictable enough for more airlines to pop up. KCI could use another home-based airline like Vanguard.

[KCPowercat]

I don't think you get it. Very few cities can produce the demand for any international flights...unless you truly think Charlotte residents fly to Paris, London, Dublin, Madrid, Lisbon, Rome, Munich, and Frankfort a really, really lot.

I definitely don't get it. What are you arguing? That a major airline should make KC its major hub? Well, OK. ...

I'm not arguing anything...I found Kull's statement to be offbase so I responded.

[pash]

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[KCPowercat]

OK. Here's an on-base correction of what im2kull wrote: the only cities with many international flights are (a) big cities and (b) cities that are hubs for major airlines. KC is neither. ... What are we discussing here?

I don't think we were...It appears Highland and Kull were discussing and I decided to jump in on what I read as an idiotic post.


My interest here is a new terminal which has already posted benefits and the cost is the PFC I'm already paying to build other city airports....

[earthling]

This could be bad for KCI and more mid-sized airports. American and US Airways may be closer to merger.

http://m.kansascity.com/kcstar/db_1156/ ... =0&pn=&ps=

Though the two have only 13% share of KCI traffic together. They have 20% share of STL.

[mykem]

Here is some info from Landrum and Brown on the site analysis.

http://www.flykci.com/_FileLibrary/File ... alysis.pdf

[flyingember]

OK. Here's an on-base correction of what im2kull wrote: the only cities with many international flights are (a) big cities and (b) cities that are hubs for major airlines. KC is neither. ... What are we discussing here?

you don't need it to be a hub city for a US airline to get international flights
you just need to get enough people to KC to make adding international flights worth it.

Maybe KC won't get a directly flight East or West to Europe/Asia

But we could get a direct flight to Mexico City or Vancouver or the like.

All it would take is for KC to be the path of least resistance for more people.

If KC does the small city hub thing like Salt Lake City does it becomes more realistic to get more hot spot flights like Cancun or the Bahamas.

That's the kind of thing the city needs to pick up steam.

[earthling]

KCI already has flights to Canada and Mexico, though sometimes seasonal. Cancun and Toronto at the moment. Have seen other cities in Mexico in past.

[brewcrew1000]

Raliegh Durham has a daily nonstop to London, but the flight exists because the business community pressured American to put this route in and it might be laced with incentives from the gov't.

[pash]

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[im2kull]

Makes you wish our airport were in Kansas. We'd have direct flights to everywhere!

Is it too late to build a new airport in Fairfax?

Last time I checked "Kansas" wasn't exactly "Raleigh-Durham". You can't expect people to think that we're not a Cow-Town when we've got people like you jumping to conclusions about other cities. The Raleigh-Durham area is packed with commerce, young adults, and very high profile neighbors. If I had to bet I'd say that you weren't even aware that Duke, North Carolina, NC State, and Wake Forest are ALL located right in there in Raleigh.

For what it's worth their airport is certainty cow-townish! They might have international flights, but KCI is by far the better airport!

[im2kull]

Airports don't grow cities, cities grow airports.

[KCMax]

I think we should embrace our cow-town image and literally put a cow pasture next to the airport. Heck IN the airport.

[pash]

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[chaglang]

God, this thread is the best. I stopped following the discussion months ago but still check in to see who's telling who to fuck off... about airports.

[kcmetro]

Here is some info from Landrum and Brown on the site analysis.

http://www.flykci.com/_FileLibrary/File ... alysis.pdf

Thanks for posting that. I for one am looking forward to this new terminal.

[flyingember]

KCI already has flights to Canada and Mexico, though sometimes seasonal. Cancun and Toronto at the moment. Have seen other cities in Mexico in past.

which carrier? are they direct flights?

Frontier offers plenty of flights to Mexico, if you go through Denver first.

And that's where my idea about being THE destination for cities smaller than us. I means more carriers would have a hard time offering as many only through Chicago or through Dallas or through Denver flights which so many are these days.

it may not put us to the same level as Chicago but the less hops an ever increasing number people have to take to get to/from KC the better off we are. Even if those are 100% domestic flights.

Because the money isn't in trying to draw a Boeing or an Apple from a huge city. That won't happen
The money is in getting their satellite offices. Their regional offices. Their midwest data centers.

It's like the goal of getting the TWA training center. We want to be the city management travels in and out of for as many businesses as possible even if we didn't get the HQ.

[brewcrew1000]

I believe frontier flies nonstop from here to Cancun and maybe Punta Cana. Frontier has pretty much abandoned KC's hub here and now is starting weird nonstops from small towns like Columbia Missouri,Shenandoah Virginia,Allentown, Harriburg,etc to Orlando and a bunch of routes from Trenton New Jersey to Sun Destinations.