KCRag Forum

kboish wrote:

DaveKCMO wrote:well over 6,000 ballot applications received.

Congrats, Dave. I'd say that is well done.

WSPanic wrote:

DaveKCMO wrote:well over 6,000 ballot applications received.

What percentage of the eligible or registered voters is that? And how many were you expecting? You don't have to answer. Just curious.

I don't know how many Dave was expecting, but that is certainly more than I was expecting. It has been reported there are 30,000 eligible voters in the TDD area- so that would be about a 20% response. That is a higher percentage than our last mayoral election.

Now we just need to make sure all of these people actually mail in their ballots.

And vote YES

ballots mailed to qualified voters on tuesday, june 20. here's what the envelope looks like:

DaveKCMO wrote:ballots mailed to qualified voters on tuesday, june 20. here's what the envelope looks like:

And this is just to form the TDD, not the vote to build it itself? I'm guessing that will go before voters in November?

There's 1 or 3 three votes coming up and none are to build. The vote to build is a city council action, not by the TDD residents.

1. form TDD- ballot request began in April, election certified in August
assuming #1 passes
2. board vote- October, at polling place
3. approve taxes- ballot request begins in December, election certified in March

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx1_a3 ... 9sZHc/view

The third vote is as important as the first. A TDD without funding does nothing (well, unless the Chastain plan passes in August)

There's quite a few steps between the TDD elections and approval to build, like getting money, finishing engineering to get a final cost, finding a contractor.

The TDD only will about half pay for the line for one so getting the rest of the money is the next big step if both votes pass.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx1_a3 ... pYVTQ/view

A train to UMKC is easily 6+ years out. The vote to build is easily past the halfway point.

It took St Louis 3 years to build a 17 mile Metrolink line...ST FUCKING LOUIS. Why is it going to take us 6+ years to build a 4 mile streetcar extension? Are we really that inept of a city? For fuck sake. Besides I thought engineering studies had already been completed back in 2014. I don't get it. I feel like Kansas City is intent on shuffling around and dragging our knuckles in the Stone Age for the rest of the lifespan of civilization. FUCK. 6+ years? What the hell.

Three years to *build* the line when they broke ground. They did a study and then picked rail in 1987. So StL took 6-7 years. It took three years from picking rail to starting construction even then.

Big projects vary too. St. Louis Loop Trolley is opening this summer they got the grant and had funding in 2010. KC did (nearly?) the ENTIRE downtown line from concept to election to construction to opening in that same time.

The 2014 studies were *initial* engineering to pick corridors. It was more of an alternatives analysis and feasibility study. The next step is to actually design the line to the level of knowing how to put the rail in the group and create official, approved engineering construction documents. They have to talk with every property owner and identify what curb cuts get maintained, pick which lanes to close, change, how to run the rail, stop placement, all that. Not one bit of that is engineered.

Is there no way to expedite the process? If we don't have an operating extension until 2023 or later we're going to miss the opportunity the housing boom and positive net migration is providing right now. These need to happen parallel to each other to get the biggest bang for buck. I'm afraid that building the streetcar out AFTER the boom is going to stall any additional expansion efforts further down the line.

You're asking to expedite congress and/or the executive branch

There is a solution to expedite. Pass the Chastain plan in August. With a 100% local funding source could fund engineering in September 2017.
Approve the plan next summer, break ground fall 2018 and open in 2020/2021

You can dislike the guy but the greatest chance for rail in 3 years is his plan

I don't mind voting yes on his plan if it gets rail to midtown faster. We need a working streetcar system, that services the majority of the urban core, as quick as possible.

St. Louis built in a way different time with a lot of federal money available....and traffic problems that spurred people to want other options.

The capital cost to build the initial phase of MetroLink was $465 million. Of that amount, $348 million was supplied by the Federal Transit Administration (FTA)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MetroLink_(St._Louis)

flyingember wrote:You're asking to expedite congress and/or the executive branch

There is a solution to expedite. Pass the Chastain plan in August. With a 100% local funding source could fund engineering in September 2017.
Approve the plan next summer, break ground fall 2018 and open in 2020/2021

You can dislike the guy but the greatest chance for rail in 3 years is his plan

I've been thinking the same thing. It's also an equitable funding source coming from all residents that could help with funding additional expansion in the future. We need a larger source of full city funding of transportation and the council is given an easy pass when we do the TDD districts.

We need a regional funding source for transit. 

It's not just about the streetcar, it's about actually aving enough money to have enough money to ask for sharing the effort.
One good thing the TDD does is do things hyper local but that can only build something hyper local.

Your guys talk is all fine and good, but every single metro wide election (save one), has failed miserably. How do you propose to change the dynamic?

There's a reason we're doing TDD.

grovester wrote:Your guys talk is all fine and good, but every single metro wide election (save one), has failed miserably. How do you propose to change the dynamic?

There's a reason we're doing TDD.

Make a TDD for everywhere except the Northland?

grovester wrote:Your guys talk is all fine and good, but every single metro wide election (save one), has failed miserably. How do you propose to change the dynamic?

There's a reason we're doing TDD.

This city is changing. Just because something didn't pass several years ago doesn't mean the result will be the same, especially since we can now see and understand what expanded streetcar would look like. The same goes for the airport. Wouldnt pass a few years ago; I think it will now.

beautyfromashes wrote:

grovester wrote:Your guys talk is all fine and good, but every single metro wide election (save one), has failed miserably. How do you propose to change the dynamic?

There's a reason we're doing TDD.

This city is changing. Just because something didn't pass several years ago doesn't mean the result will be the same, especially since we can now see and understand what expanded streetcar would look like. The same goes for the airport. Wouldnt pass a few years ago; I think it will now.

The city is changing, I agree. But I'm not sure the east side has changed much. Or the northland.

About time for some polling though.

The parts of the city don't have to change, the election dynamics did.

With the state efforts the minimum wage item has less pull than it did before. So that decreases the east side and northland draw of infrequent voters. Or maybe not, pro higher minimum wage voters tend to be transit dependent and may be ok with the whole city paying for their train

The anti-rail ballot item encourages people who are for transit to get out and vote against it. Many will vote for increased transit funding too.

It looks good on the ballot. It has that something for lots of the city approach that passed the 2006(?) citywide rail item.

Unlike 2014, it promises a lot to the east side without a big tax increase largely for it

Percentage of residents that have rode the train is way up over a year ago August, increasing chance a voter is positive on the subject.

The train is connected with ride for free, a big deal for the east side to vote for it.


Will this mean it passes? I don't think this means it's a slam dunk, but I would argue the chances are much greater it passes than before. Even a loss probably will be a much tighter result, more like 48-52 than 40-60, encouraging a future citywide effort.

Even if it loses... At the very least the city would gain valuable election data on changes in citywide interest for a larger TDD effort. If the near northland supports the train there's value in partnering with NKC and Gladstone and expanding north quicker. If the east side supports the train there's value in looking that direction again.

Now that the east side sales tax passed, maybe not as many churches and civic groups would be against streetcar expansion?

flyingember wrote:The parts of the city don't have to change, the election dynamics did.

With the state efforts the minimum wage item has less pull than it did before. So that decreases the east side and northland draw of infrequent voters. Or maybe not, pro higher minimum wage voters tend to be transit dependent and may be ok with the whole city paying for their train

The anti-rail ballot item encourages people who are for transit to get out and vote against it. Many will vote for increased transit funding too.

It looks good on the ballot. It has that something for lots of the city approach that passed the 2006(?) citywide rail item.

Unlike 2014, it promises a lot to the east side without a big tax increase largely for it

Percentage of residents that have rode the train is way up over a year ago August, increasing chance a voter is positive on the subject.

The train is connected with ride for free, a big deal for the east side to vote for it.


Will this mean it passes? I don't think this means it's a slam dunk, but I would argue the chances are much greater it passes than before. Even a loss probably will be a much tighter result, more like 48-52 than 40-60, encouraging a future citywide effort.

Even if it loses... At the very least the city would gain valuable election data on changes in citywide interest for a larger TDD effort. If the near northland supports the train there's value in partnering with NKC and Gladstone and expanding north quicker. If the east side supports the train there's value in looking that direction again.

Too bad the election data will be tainted by Chastain's involvement.

Chastaint