droopy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 1:08 pm
I just looked up attendance out of curiosity. Cardinals rank 6th in MLB with average of 37k. Royals are averaging 15k per game and rank 28th in the MLB for attendance.
I said in person attendance. They’ve had alot of pretty empty days, not that we don’t either.
You linked to reported attendance. In terms of tickets sold, industry pieces and local news has run articles on the decline this year. Set a few local records for low attendance.
The Royals have almost zero season ticket base, much of which can be attributed to the stadium's location being so isolated from any of the business community or nearby affluent residential areas. That's a primary reason their attendance is so low. And their attendance is BAD and not sustainable for a MLB team especially in a smaller market that depends on attendance more than larger markets do.
Milwaukee is the only smaller market and they blow KC out of the water in attendance regardless of team performance. KC has got to find a way to get season ticket base up and overall attendance up.
And sure, KC would survive without its pro teams. I just don't think it would be a quite as desirable place to live, but pro teams are generally not enough to caused people to leave a city or move to a city. It would just leave a gaping whole in what the city offers to residents and visitors.
It would be a bigger hit to KC since it's kind of a city between being a MLB town and a AAA town. Dropping down to a AAA town would make it seem like KC is going the wrong direction. While it may not hurt the city that much, I sure can't see it helping it either.
droopy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 1:08 pm
I just looked up attendance out of curiosity. Cardinals rank 6th in MLB with average of 37k. Royals are averaging 15k per game and rank 28th in the MLB for attendance.
I said in person attendance. They’ve had alot of pretty empty days, not that we don’t either.
You linked to reported attendance. In terms of tickets sold, industry pieces and local news has run articles on the decline this year. Set a few local records for low attendance.
Yup - you can do a number of things to boost reported attendance. Regardless, STL has gotten this reputation as an incredible baseball town. Fact is, their team has been incredibly consistent and one of the top performing teams in baseball the past 20 years. The moment they have two losing seasons in a row, their attendance starts to slip. Just like every other team.
I think what people keep forgetting is that it's about the losing seasons performances. If the stadium is downtown, then even in the 100-loss seasons we'd still have a higher attendance floor downtown then we would win with a 100-loss season at TSC.
Winning seasons will fill up stadium regardless if it's downtown or TSC. It's about the losing seasons. And the Royals lose a lot more than they ever win. We need downtown more than anyone.
TheUrbanRoo wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 2:53 pm
I think what people keep forgetting is that it's about the losing seasons performances. If the stadium is downtown, then even in the 100-loss seasons we'd still have a higher attendance floor downtown then we would win with a 100-loss season at TSC.
Winning seasons will fill up stadium regardless if it's downtown or TSC. It's about the losing seasons. And the Royals lose a lot more than they ever win. We need downtown more than anyone.
Not just losing seasons but weekdays. Kauffman stadium has always drawn poorly for weeknights.
I didn’t think about the in person aspect, good point. I found an article talking about the Cards are a few thousand lower on in person attendance this year versus last year. Still more than double the Royals.
I guess I was thinking more along the lines of Roo…downtown stadium will likely increase the shitty days/years in person and tix-sold attendance numbers for the Royals which would be great.
TheUrbanRoo wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 8:25 pm
Well done Jackson County, well done. You even fucked over Worlds of Fun because you showed how weak and easy you are to just pilfer from.
WoF is in Clay County and the Mattel Park in KCK will be tiny compared to it. How many privately owned amusement parks are built with tax money? I can only think of two. The Schlitterbahn Park in KCK and now this Mattel Park. What other reason would they build a park there unless there was like zero risk? Same reason Schlitterbahn built a park in freaking Kansas.
I doubt MO is going to hand Cedar Fair 50 million or so to improve WoF. KS might just offer to build them a brand new park over there some day though.
Kansas is the absolute poster child of corporate welfare which is why I knew they would find a way to fund one or both stadiums.
Hopefully it just leads to MO getting something done.
U-Haul gets to stay and property values stay low in the East Crossroads. Plus, people can still ride their bikes to the women’s soccer games. Everyone wins!
I want to believe DCole about the Chiefs claiming they want to stay at Arrowhead but I just can't buy it because literally none of the Chiefs actions say that.
They barely helped out with the vote. They're already talking about "a new stadium" at the Clark Hunt press conference. Their stadium proposal was one that almost says "we want to fail on purpose so we can move". I don't see any indication from their actual actions that they want to stay at Truman.
TheUrbanRoo wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 8:25 pm
Well done Jackson County, well done. You even fucked over Worlds of Fun because you showed how weak and easy you are to just pilfer from.
WoF is in Clay County and the Mattel Park in KCK will be tiny compared to it. How many privately owned amusement parks are built with tax money? I can only think of two. The Schlitterbahn Park in KCK and now this Mattel Park. What other reason would they build a park there unless there was like zero risk? Same reason Schlitterbahn built a park in freaking Kansas.
I doubt MO is going to hand Cedar Fair 50 million or so to improve WoF. KS might just offer to build them a brand new park over there some day though.
Kansas is the absolute poster child of corporate welfare which is why I knew they would find a way to fund one or both stadiums.
Hopefully it just leads to MO getting something done.
The kansas stadium bill had initial language to also 100% fund an amusement park in Wyandotte. May or may not be Mattel
Also, the the bill that was passed to allow sports betting in Kansas was written so that the majority of state revenue (~10%) from betting goes into a fund designed solely to attract professional sports to the state. In 2023 that amount was around $10 million. While that isn't a huge amount, it IS something they could use creatively to build a stadium or I guess even just hand out to an owner?
The Royals haven't done themselves any favors in regards to season ticket holders. Just a couple of years ago they restructured their season ticket system in a money grab that saw decades-long season ticket holders either lose their seat locations and/or require more expensive seat licenses. I know of maybe a half dozen people who were so pissed off they just let their tickets go and are buying tickets to fewer games with smaller packages.
droopy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 1:08 pm
I just looked up attendance out of curiosity. Cardinals rank 6th in MLB with average of 37k. Royals are averaging 15k per game and rank 28th in the MLB for attendance.
I said in person attendance. They’ve had alot of pretty empty days, not that we don’t either.
You linked to reported attendance. In terms of tickets sold, industry pieces and local news has run articles on the decline this year. Set a few local records for low attendance.
Yup - you can do a number of things to boost reported attendance. Regardless, STL has gotten this reputation as an incredible baseball town. Fact is, their team has been incredibly consistent and one of the top performing teams in baseball the past 20 years. The moment they have two losing seasons in a row, their attendance starts to slip. Just like every other team.
On field performance>>> everything else
Agreed, on field performance will make or break a franchise. Winning solves all problems as they state. But whenever I hear about people making the argument of STL and being a great baseball town and KC people getting miffed about it I just say chill. STL should have a better fan base, the Cards have an 80 yr head start on the Royals and like a 70 yr head start in general for KC having MLB at all. For a while the Cards (and Browns) were the only MLB teams West of the Mississippi. They built up a huge following in the Midwest, plus they were good. There are generations of Cards fans before KC even had a team. So STL earned its chops by being good and by being the only game in town for decades.
