Downtown Baseball Stadium

[shinatoo]

Just got a survey from Jackson County on why I voted yes or no. All the questions were about the Royals. Personally thought the Chiefs proposal was just as bad for the same reasons. Ambiguity on how the tax money was specifically being spent.

Someone said further up. Show me a budget. Mr. Taxpayer, your $350m is paying for X,Y, and Z. The teams are contributing $300m to $1b to cover these items.

X,Y and Z need to be basic infrastructure and maintenance, and/or stuff we all get. Not VIP suites.

The survey was as poorly constructed as their stadiums plans.

[GRID]

Lol you are getting ridiculous. Like 95% of voters outside of greater downtown. Even the urban core of KCMO is probably well less than half the population of the county. I'm not sure how many people live in KCMO from the river to Brookside to 435.

And you are the only person using words like "only". I will say that the majority, if not the vast majority of Jackson County does not support a downtown stadium today. Especially Jackson County outside of 435 (which is a majority of the county's people not just land area). Maybe that will change, but right now they don't.

[KCDowntown]

There's a document that showed the votes by precinct on the JaxCo Election Board website. I think there were areas closer to the city that were over 50% YES. However, the YES percentage dropped pretty precipitously as you got further out.

Here's the link to the precinct report.

Here's a graphical representation in somebody's Twitter feed...

KCDowntown

I will say that the majority, if not the vast majority of Jackson County does not support a downtown stadium today. Especially Jackson County outside of 435 (which is a majority of the county's people not just land area). Maybe that will change, but right now they don't.

[chrizow]

didn't Lee's Summit overall vote YES on this plan? I think Jaxco outside 435 is pretty varied. I think support for a downtown stadium in the burbs breaks largely along age lines. i grew up in suburban Jaxco and just about everyone i know younger than, say, 50 supports a downtown stadium. Many of those folks did not like the Xroads stadium for many of the reasons voiced against that location.

My dad is 77 and voted YES b/c he wants to "keep the teams" but does not personally support the idea of a downtown stadium though he understands this is probably what the "younger generation" wants. he is not on social media, has never heard of KC Tenants, and probably could not tell you what "East Crossroads" means although he is probably familiar with the wasteland "east of the courthouses" but not by the name "East Village."

My mom is 68 and voted NO b/c she is on social media and saw the stuff about "small business" being impacted.

So there is your dispatch from the Boomer generation in Raytown/LSMO

[KCPowercat]

Lol you are getting ridiculous. Like 95% of voters outside of greater downtown. Even the urban core of KCMO is probably well less than half the population of the county. I'm not sure how many people live in KCMO from the river to Brookside to 435.

And you are the only person using words like "only". I will say that the majority, if not the vast majority of Jackson County does not support a downtown stadium today. Especially Jackson County outside of 435 (which is a majority of the county's people not just land area). Maybe that will change, but right now they don't.

221k in the loop, 674k total in JaxCo to support your point.

I disagree the vast majority in jaxco doesn't want a downtown park and they would support an actual fleshed out plan by the Royals. Time will tell but I don't think we'll ever have a JaxCo vote on this again.

[chingon]

There's a document that showed the votes by precinct on the JaxCo Election Board website. I think there were areas closer to the city that were over 50% YES. However, the YES percentage dropped pretty precipitously as you got further out.

Here's the link to the precinct report.

Here's a graphical representation in somebody's Twitter feed...

KCDowntown

I will say that the majority, if not the vast majority of Jackson County does not support a downtown stadium today. Especially Jackson County outside of 435 (which is a majority of the county's people not just land area). Maybe that will change, but right now they don't.

I am legitimately curious about the KCEB precinct level results, though I suspect I could predict it with a high degree of accuracy.

[dnweava]

Lol you are getting ridiculous. Like 95% of voters outside of greater downtown. Even the urban core of KCMO is probably well less than half the population of the county. I'm not sure how many people live in KCMO from the river to Brookside to 435.

And you are the only person using words like "only". I will say that the majority, if not the vast majority of Jackson County does not support a downtown stadium today. Especially Jackson County outside of 435 (which is a majority of the county's people not just land area). Maybe that will change, but right now they don't.

Jackson co population breakdown (very rough for clean numbers)

15% KCMO downtown to plaza ( new streetcar district essentially)
15% KCMO eastside/inner city areas
15% KCMO brookside to martin city and outer areas
5% Grandview
10% Raytown
15% Independence
15% lees summit
10% blue springs

The county is actually very diverse. I never saw the news or the teams ask how the Latino community is voting, how the black community is voting, the working class in Grandview, etc. doesn't seem like the marketing targeted anybody in particular. All I ever saw was "how is this one specific angry bar owner voting" and "how are the KC communists voting"?

[ericwyner]

if/wherever new stadiums are built in/outside of the region, will it be with public money approved by the local voters or just the elected officials of the local jurisdictions?

[TheBigChuckbowski]

I will say that the majority, if not the vast majority of Jackson County does not support a downtown stadium today.

That may be true but where would they be today had the Royals actually executed a campaign about showing people how great a downtown ballpark can be? They never even go to that. They were too busy cleaning up all of the issues with the East Crossroads site, that should've been worked out 6+ months before the election, that they never actually sold their vision. The campaign was just about keeping the teams in Jackson County and "we promise to not do as much damage to the Crossroads as we initially envisioned." That's just not how you convince people that a downtown stadium is a good idea. Hell, people that do think a downtown stadium is a good idea didn't support this.

[KCPowercat]

Just got a survey from Jackson County on why I voted yes or no. All the questions were about the Royals. Personally thought the Chiefs proposal was just as bad for the same reasons. Ambiguity on how the tax money was specifically being spent.

Someone said further up. Show me a budget. Mr. Taxpayer, your $350m is paying for X,Y, and Z. The teams are contributing $300m to $1b to cover these items.

X,Y and Z need to be basic infrastructure and maintenance, and/or stuff we all get. Not VIP suites.

The survey was as poorly constructed as their stadiums plans.

Just took it, what a weirdly worded survey

[GRID]

I will say that the majority, if not the vast majority of Jackson County does not support a downtown stadium today.

That may be true but where would they be today had the Royals actually executed a campaign about showing people how great a downtown ballpark can be? They never even go to that. They were too busy cleaning up all of the issues with the East Crossroads site, that should've been worked out 6+ months before the election, that they never actually sold their vision. The campaign was just about keeping the teams in Jackson County and "we promise to not do as much damage to the Crossroads as we initially envisioned." That's just not how you convince people that a downtown stadium is a good idea. Hell, people that do think a downtown stadium is a good idea didn't support this.

Agreed. I'm not saying they can't be convinced that a downtown stadium is the best option. The royals did a TERRIBLE job selling the downtown locations, so bad that the damage may be too much to overcome now as they have just pushed more people against the idea with how poorly everything was done. And the chiefs plans didn't impress anybody.

And like most people here, they really didn't take the population of the county outside of the KCMO urban core seriously.

It didn't help that they had to fight Jackson County leadership the whole way either. I mean when the leader of the most populated county in a your metro is excited and actually celebrates a no vote and the potential loss of its pro sports teams to another county or even another metro, you have some fucking serious leadership problems.

If county leadership were actually on board and the Royals put together a well thought out plan and worked with the neighborhood the stadium was going to go and then educated the public about why a new stadium was needed and not gone with some of "we might have to leave the county" rhetoric (chiefs) It would have passed easily.

But now after it failed and the post failure emotions of the teams owners and a build up of anti public money for the teams, they may never get the support they need from a vote no matter how well they do a campaign.

[TheUrbanRoo]

To me it sounds like the real issue is just the county. I think if they work with city only, and do a real campaign, this will pass.

[mourban]

Can someone articulate why a NKC site with no preexisting tax would somehow be cheaper than downtown KCMO to the tune of “several hundreds of millions”?

I’d argue the crossroads location had more benefit for KCMO because it would have helped pay down the streetcar and PNL District bonds

[DColeKC]

I think Clark Hunt needs to come out and say his money specifically will pay for the upgrades to premium areas and VIP suites.

I'm sure a lot of minds will be changed if voters learn that their money will merely free up Hunt's contribution to cover exclusively VIP shit, rather than paying for it directly. They'll be excited to hand over hundreds of millions of dollars for an empty field in the parking lot and invisible structural repairs as long as they understand that steps have been taken to separate out the otherwise-completely-fungible money for this project to ensure that, in some technical sense, Hunt is the one paying for all the stuff they are too poor to enjoy.

Well it sure has worked in other cities when the owners commit to paying for the luxury options themselves.

[DColeKC]

Can someone articulate why a NKC site with no preexisting tax would somehow be cheaper than downtown KCMO to the tune of “several hundreds of millions”?

I’d argue the crossroads location had more benefit for KCMO because it would have helped pay down the streetcar and PNL District bonds

It would be cheaper if they got the land sold to them a severe discount, mostly because they don't have to buy up occupied property or demolish anything like The Star printing press. However, none of know what the folks who assembled the land wanted for it.

[mourban]

Can someone articulate why a NKC site with no preexisting tax would somehow be cheaper than downtown KCMO to the tune of “several hundreds of millions”?

I’d argue the crossroads location had more benefit for KCMO because it would have helped pay down the streetcar and PNL District bonds

It would be cheaper if they got the land sold to them a severe discount, mostly because they don't have to buy up occupied property or demolish anything like The Star printing press. However, none of know what the folks who assembled the land wanted for it.

That is definitely not hundreds of millions in savings.

There may actually be cost advantages for KCMO if the stadium and it’s attendees pay into and helps support other taxing districts

[aknowledgeableperson]

if/wherever new stadiums are built in/outside of the region, will it be with public money approved by the local voters or just the elected officials of the local jurisdictions?

From an article I read the latest stadium/arenas are being built without a vote of the taxpayer. Done with private money and/or government support approved by local and state elected officials. For a downtown stadium it will likely be something done much the same way. Local taxpayers will not support it by a vote.

[GRID]

if/wherever new stadiums are built in/outside of the region, will it be with public money approved by the local voters or just the elected officials of the local jurisdictions?

From an article I read the latest stadium/arenas are being built without a vote of the taxpayer. Done with private money and/or government support approved by local and state elected officials. For a downtown stadium it will likely be something done much the same way. Local taxpayers will not support it by a vote.

And that's not just a KC thing, that's a national trend. I just don't know that Missouri will do such a thing for KC. They never have before. The states of NY and TN are basically building new stadiums for the Bills and Titans.

KS will. The entire area of Village West (including sporting kc and ks speedway) is all funded with tax money and there was never a vote for any of it. All the big projects in Overland Park and Lenexa etc are STAR bond projects that never go to a vote. Topeka baby's the KS side of KC while Jeff City ignores the MO side of KC. You can tell just by driving on the highways of metro St Louis vs metro KC.

KC has double the problem though. Has there been a city that has had to deal with two stadiums at the same time?

[beautyfromashes]

I think the Port Authority is going to play a big part in this.

[Cratedigger]

Details of the Negotiations Between the Royals and Clay County. Up to mid January 2024 when the Royals put it on hold. Some fascinating stuff in here including details of the tax expected up north and where those funds are going


https://showmeinstitute.org/blog/subsid ... ay-county/