Downtown Baseball Stadium

[mister816]

Honest to God, I’m getting annoyed at everyone saying the Royals are going to Nashville or Salt Lake City. Now we’re talking about potentially Oakland (a city that doesn’t give a shit about the A’s)? Give it a rest. Seriously. The Royals are not leaving the KC Metro. Anyone saying they’re leaving cannot be taken seriously.

im getting annoyed with people saying that the Royals aren't leaving like you have some sort of info that the rest of us don't... we dont know just like you don't know.

[Sani]

They'll play coy to get all the funding they can to renovate Arrowhead but they'll have to literally get fisted by the state of Missouri government and local government in order to move to Kansas.

Hey, maybe he's into that shit, I don't judge.

[ericwyner]

In a rare alignment, I agree with GRID. I think downtown baseball is dead here. The only possible path forward I could see is if KCMO cuts JaxCo out, and passes the same 3/8th cent tax in the city, with a promise to move the Chiefs to the Northland and the Royals downtown, including significant parking.

do voters in the KCMO portions of Clay and Platte CO wanna pay for a stadium (anywhere)?

[Highlander]

Honest to God, I’m getting annoyed at everyone saying the Royals are going to Nashville or Salt Lake City. Now we’re talking about potentially Oakland (a city that doesn’t give a shit about the A’s)? Give it a rest. Seriously. The Royals are not leaving the KC Metro. Anyone saying they’re leaving cannot be taken seriously.

im getting annoyed with people saying that the Royals aren't leaving like you have some sort of info that the rest of us don't... we dont know just like you don't know.

Here's a look at the valuation, revenues and operating income of the Royals, attendance, the size of the market and the wealth of the primary owner.

The Royals are 27th in Revenue and have the 27th highest valuation out of 30 MLB teams. They have managed to operate in the black largely due to having one of the lower payrolls in MLB (24th in 2022). We were 28th in attendance in 2023. The payroll has increased to 21st this year so it will be interesting to see if their operating income can stay positive without an increase in revenue. When KC received the Royals as an expansion team, KC was the 20th largest metro. Now it's the 31st largest. We will slide on the scale a bit more over the next 10 years but since we will also probably surpass a couple of faster sliding cities in that frame but still will be (if nothing changes) the 28th largest market (only Cleveland and Milwaukee are smaller). Sherman is the 23rd richest owners in terms of net worth.

I think the Royals owners know they have to increase their revenue if they are going to compete in the sport and keep fan interest high in KC. A taxpayer subsidized Downtown was clearly a key component of that plan. I suspect Sherman doesn't want to move the Royals out of the metro but knows he can't deliver a quality product without boosting revenue or paying out of his pocket for players (which isn't sustainable). So I do think it's plausible if not likely that the Royals will eventually leave if all plans circle back to Kaufman as the continued home of the Royals. I don't think the Legends will suit the Royals either. The vote killed the most obvious option but if something favorable to the Royals cannot be worked out in the foreseeable future, then yea, it's very feasible that the Royals could leave and the failed vote has put them in the spotlight as a possible target. Thinking the Royals won't leave is misplaced confidence. They can and they most likely will if they cannot get a favorable deal here where they believe they can generate the revenues to sustain a quality product. They have been hinting at this for the last couple of months; why would anyone not take it at face value? The proposed move downtown wasn't just to be trendy. I am certain city leaders are taking them at face value.

[ericwyner]

Could they use the KCMO "Arena Tax" to pay a stadium?

[Highlander]

Could they use the KCMO "Arena Tax" to pay a stadium?

The cost of TMobile Center was 270 million in 2007. That's 410 million today adjusted for inflation. Still less than half of what it would cost to build a stadium plus I suspect that tax is still being used to pay off the construction cost.

[dukuboy1]

Well, it’s not. But if this is what he’s posting, it’s because it’s true. They aren’t going anywhere besides to one of our surrounding counties (at the worst).

And I’m not really scared about that too much if it’s the Chiefs. All the fear about Chiefs moving to Dallas and Royals to a dozen other places is ridiculous. The chance of either leaving the metro is negligible.

The Chiefs to Dallas is laughable. Their Mayor must not be a history buff. But when the NFL talked about a franchise in San Antonio, Jerry Jones came and shot that idea down quick & his influence over the NFL & the Commish is real. Jerry would never allow another franchise in the state let alone one in the city where the Cowboys play.

[beautyfromashes]

They can and they most likely will if they cannot get a favorable deal here where they believe they can generate the revenues to sustain a quality product.

You must not be a Royals fan. Glass gave fuck all about sustaining a quality product and he turned a $150m investment into $1B. He could have almost doubled his payroll expenditure over the time he owned the team and still broke even. Dirtbag. This is not like employment for Sherman where he needs to turn a profit to sustain himself and keep food on the table. This is a business investment. He makes his money on the back end. And, sure, we're in a small market but all the other teams in our division are too. We don't have to spend Yankees or Dodgers money to be successful. 21st in payroll might be 2nd highest in the AL Central. Zero chance the Royals leave. I don't even think the other owners would let them leave if they didn't have a deal at the end of the lease. You have to have a Tropicana Field Raftersdome or Oakland Shithole stadium to get approval to relocate and even then, it would take a decade of playing in said stadium. Zero.

[GRID]

Honest to God, I’m getting annoyed at everyone saying the Royals are going to Nashville or Salt Lake City. Now we’re talking about potentially Oakland (a city that doesn’t give a shit about the A’s)? Give it a rest. Seriously. The Royals are not leaving the KC Metro. Anyone saying they’re leaving cannot be taken seriously.

im getting annoyed with people saying that the Royals aren't leaving like you have some sort of info that the rest of us don't... we dont know just like you don't know.

Here's a look at the valuation, revenues and operating income of the Royals, attendance, the size of the market and the wealth of the primary owner.

The Royals are 27th in Revenue and have the 27th highest valuation out of 30 MLB teams. They have managed to operate in the black largely due to having one of the lower payrolls in MLB (24th in 2022). We were 28th in attendance in 2023. The payroll has increased to 21st this year so it will be interesting to see if their operating income can stay positive without an increase in revenue. When KC received the Royals as an expansion team, KC was the 20th largest metro. Now it's the 31st largest. We will slide on the scale a bit more over the next 10 years but since we will also probably surpass a couple of faster sliding cities in that frame but still will be (if nothing changes) the 28th largest market (only Cleveland and Milwaukee are smaller). Sherman is the 23rd richest owners in terms of net worth.

I think the Royals owners know they have to increase their revenue if they are going to compete in the sport and keep fan interest high in KC. A taxpayer subsidized Downtown was clearly a key component of that plan. I suspect Sherman doesn't want to move the Royals out of the metro but knows he can't deliver a quality product without boosting revenue or paying out of his pocket for players (which isn't sustainable). So I do think it's plausible if not likely that the Royals will eventually leave if all plans circle back to Kaufman as the continued home of the Royals. I don't think the Legends will suit the Royals either. The vote killed the most obvious option but if something favorable to the Royals cannot be worked out in the foreseeable future, then yea, it's very feasible that the Royals could leave and the failed vote has put them in the spotlight as a possible target. Thinking the Royals won't leave is misplaced confidence. They can and they most likely will if they cannot get a favorable deal here where they believe they can generate the revenues to sustain a quality product. They have been hinting at this for the last couple of months; why would anyone not take it at face value? The proposed move downtown wasn't just to be trendy. I am certain city leaders are taking them at face value.

Great post and very similar to what I have shared all over social media in various forms. This needs to be shared. The Royals have done a terrible job of explaining why they need a new stadium. Staying at Kauffman is simply not an option and people don't seem to get that.

People do not understand the situation KC is in and how the metro is now on the bubble of remaining a MLB city. Even Tampa has a million more people than KC does which has to help the Rays and why the team is being so patient with their stadium issues. Milwaukee is smaller but they consistently draw much better. The Royals have to be in a pennant race to come close to what Milwaukee draws on average. Cleveland CSA is over a million more people than KC.

If KC can not get a new stadium built, I just don't see the Royals staying in KC. Sure it will take 10-15 years of messy stadium drama, but it could happen. I think KC finds a way to build a stadium eventually. And I agree that village west will not work. However, I do think a location in Overland Park could if they built something like the Battery in a development along 435 (not way down south or something). Problem is JoCo is over retailed, so a ballpark and surrounding retail district is not likely there either.

Downtown KCMO is really the best option, but I think they will try to make NKC work. Unless KCMO and Missouri pulls something out of their hat. Funding from Jackson County is no longer an option.

[Cratedigger]

Clay and Platte combined are half the size of Jackson. A Royals only tax would only need to be half the amount since the Chiefs are not involved. So the same 3/8 tax should raise about the same amount for the Royals. However, I think they can do it with state only money in the NKC site. It will be far cheaper than downtown with less opposition.

I said this way earlier in the thread but the NKC site will be hundreds of millions of dollars cheaper for the Royals

[TheBigChuckbowski]

The reality is that KC Tenants will/would have come out against every possible proposal the Royals put on the table. The details are irrelevant, whether East Village, East Crossroads, saving the K, whatever. The issue is tax money going to a team owned by a billionaire, that doesn't change no matter where the stadium is built. Do they put up less of a stink if the stadium is built in Clay County or Kansas? Maybe. But, if the Royals go to the suburbs because they're scared of KC Tenants, that's just flat out embarrassing.

Thankfully, I doubt John Sherman even knows who they are and people on this board are insanely overstating their contribution to this election. The teams royally screwed this up. Best you can give credit to KC Tenants is that the teams made decisions that specifically fed into their narrative (throwing out small businesses, tearing down buildings, Arrowhead renovations only for VIPs). A better plan that doesn't feed that narrative takes away their oxygen. Mainstream voters don't listen to KC Tenants.

[KCPowercat]

The reality is that KC Tenants will/would have come out against every possible proposal the Royals put on the table. The details are irrelevant, whether East Village, East Crossroads, saving the K, whatever. The issue is tax money going to a team owned by a billionaire, that doesn't change no matter where the stadium is built. Do they put up less of a stink if the stadium is built in Clay County or Kansas? Maybe. But, if the Royals go to the suburbs because they're scared of KC Tenants, that's just flat out embarrassing.

Thankfully, I doubt John Sherman even knows who they are and people on this board are insanely overstating their contribution to this election. The teams royally screwed this up. Best you can give credit to KC Tenants is that the teams made decisions that specifically fed into their narrative (throwing out small businesses, tearing down buildings, Arrowhead renovations only for VIPs). A better plan that doesn't feed that narrative takes away their oxygen. Mainstream voters don't listen to KC Tenants.

We may be the last two sane people on this site.

[Cratedigger]

Thankfully, I doubt John Sherman even knows who they are and people on this board are insanely overstating their contribution to this election. The teams royally screwed this up. Best you can give credit to KC Tenants is that the teams made decisions that specifically fed into their narrative (throwing out small businesses, tearing down buildings, Arrowhead renovations only for VIPs). A better plan that doesn't feed that narrative takes away their oxygen. Mainstream voters don't listen to KC Tenants.

John Sherman and the ownership group knows who they are.

They may still give outsized credit to the KC Star for this result... But they know who KCT is.

Thanks to this election, mainstream voters are finding out about KC Tenants

[Highlander]

They can and they most likely will if they cannot get a favorable deal here where they believe they can generate the revenues to sustain a quality product.

You must not be a Royals fan. Glass gave fuck all about sustaining a quality product and he turned a $150m investment into $1B. He could have almost doubled his payroll expenditure over the time he owned the team and still broke even. Dirtbag. This is not like employment for Sherman where he needs to turn a profit to sustain himself and keep food on the table. This is a business investment. He makes his money on the back end. And, sure, we're in a small market but all the other teams in our division are too. We don't have to spend Yankees or Dodgers money to be successful. 21st in payroll might be 2nd highest in the AL Central. Zero chance the Royals leave. I don't even think the other owners would let them leave if they didn't have a deal at the end of the lease. You have to have a Tropicana Field Raftersdome or Oakland Shithole stadium to get approval to relocate and even then, it would take a decade of playing in said stadium. Zero.

I wish I had your optimism. Sherman did purchase the Royals as an investment. He had a plan to grow that investment via a downtown location being symbiotic with future investments. His baseball investment would grow as much if not more in larger cities with higher growth rates than it would in Kansas City without any further outside investment on his part. He's been very upfront about what he wants to do with the Royals and has been upfront about Kaufman not being in the future of the Royals. It's obvious he very much wants to make something work in KC and the Royals won't leave until all options are considered and exhausted. But they are not staying at Kaufman. They will leave the KC metro if that remains the only option for the Royals. He's insinuated that much on several occasions.

[TheUrbanRoo]

The Royals will still end up downtown. It’s just going to be delayed now till they can find another workaround.

[beautyfromashes]

I wish I had your optimism. Sherman did purchase the Royals as an investment. He had a plan to grow that investment via a downtown location being symbiotic with future investments. His baseball investment would grow as much if not more in larger cities with higher growth rates than it would in Kansas City without any further outside investment on his part. He's been very upfront about what he wants to do with the Royals and has been upfront about Kaufman not being in the future of the Royals. It's obvious he very much wants to make something work in KC and the Royals won't leave until all options are considered and exhausted. But they are not staying at Kaufman. They will leave the KC metro if that remains the only option for the Royals. He's insinuated that much on several occasions.

John Sherman is from Kansas City and seems to love it here. There is zero chance that he turns his back and destroys his own family name by moving the team, that's if there is no where in the city that provides a viable option to build a ballpark. He could sell the team, but he would look for a local investor first. There is precedence in Kansas City of making sure the new owner would keep the team in the city, even to the point of taking less money. If there was absolutely no one in Kansas City who could get approval from MLB he would sell the team to an outside buyer. So, the hoops are stacked and you have to do mental gymnastics to see that far into this process.

[dnweava]

I don't trust billionaires, and I trust Sherman even less after his wife's facebook posts....

But, I think the election failing could end up being for the best.

1) I always thought a downtown stadium should be owned by the city, not the county. No reason to give people in Blue Springs and Lees Summit control over a building in OUR downtown. Nor, should people in those suburbs have to pay for a building that mostly benefits KCMO. If we end up with a city owned (or preferably privately owned) crossroads stadium is a far better outcome.

2) before the election neither owner would say how much money they were expecting from the city and state, which means they already have money lined up, they don't need another election to do what they were needed. Just increase the ownership side portion...

3) tax breaks, credits, etc and dedicated taxes on tickets or hotels like the arena tax makes so much more sense than taxing single mother's grocery bills. I have to agree that taxing poor people for a billionaire's stadium is a very bad way to fund it, find other ways.

4) the failed vote should be a wake up call that the arrowhead renovations were weak as hell. For $800 million, come on bro... The newest football stadium in the country at San Diego state was $310 million, you are telling me they could build an entire stadium with luxury boxes, scoreboards, and all that yet for 2.5 times as much we get upper deck concourse heaters and repaint the parking lot lines... BuT CoNsTrUcTiOn CoStS hAvE GoNe Up.. Shut up.

[MidKC]

The reality is that KC Tenants will/would have come out against every possible proposal the Royals put on the table. The details are irrelevant, whether East Village, East Crossroads, saving the K, whatever. The issue is tax money going to a team owned by a billionaire, that doesn't change no matter where the stadium is built. Do they put up less of a stink if the stadium is built in Clay County or Kansas? Maybe. But, if the Royals go to the suburbs because they're scared of KC Tenants, that's just flat out embarrassing.

Thankfully, I doubt John Sherman even knows who they are and people on this board are insanely overstating their contribution to this election. The teams royally screwed this up. Best you can give credit to KC Tenants is that the teams made decisions that specifically fed into their narrative (throwing out small businesses, tearing down buildings, Arrowhead renovations only for VIPs). A better plan that doesn't feed that narrative takes away their oxygen. Mainstream voters don't listen to KC Tenants.

Mainstream voters just elected someone from their organizations on to the city council?

[Chris Stritzel]

Mayor Q met with Sherman yesterday afternoon.
https://x.com/quintonlucaskc/status/177 ... 22383?s=46

[DColeKC]

The reality is that KC Tenants will/would have come out against every possible proposal the Royals put on the table. The details are irrelevant, whether East Village, East Crossroads, saving the K, whatever. The issue is tax money going to a team owned by a billionaire, that doesn't change no matter where the stadium is built. Do they put up less of a stink if the stadium is built in Clay County or Kansas? Maybe. But, if the Royals go to the suburbs because they're scared of KC Tenants, that's just flat out embarrassing.

Thankfully, I doubt John Sherman even knows who they are and people on this board are insanely overstating their contribution to this election. The teams royally screwed this up. Best you can give credit to KC Tenants is that the teams made decisions that specifically fed into their narrative (throwing out small businesses, tearing down buildings, Arrowhead renovations only for VIPs). A better plan that doesn't feed that narrative takes away their oxygen. Mainstream voters don't listen to KC Tenants.

I don't think KCT has as much power as some say but they do have influence. John Sherman 100% knows who they are as does every developer currently invested in KC or looking to invest in KC. They're a cancer to our development and backed by wealthy donors.