Downtown Baseball Stadium

[mourban]

Real question- why would the Chiefs moving to Kansas by the racetrack be bad?

You could place it by the old Cerner building and use the space for team offices, the parking situation could be better formalized, and there are hotels, restaurants, entertainment and a casino nearby. The TSC site has none of this.

The Royals will end up near downtown KCMO or in another region. I don’t see how moving to KS is an improvement for them.

I still think this is the Plan B. Royals get funded by KCMO and the Chiefs pit MO v KS in a tax incentive battle and, depending on the structure, Missouri may actually be better off if the team ends up in KS.

Because it's just more of KCMO's culture, identity and economy moving to KS. People would actually be right when they say things like "all the players live in KS", "all the fans are from KS" etc. More out of town fans would stay in KS hotels. You are continuing to erode KCMO's importance as the core city of the metro. Village west is almost three times as far from downtown as the TSC and it's in a state that competes with KCMO more than it cooperates with KCMO.

I agree in some ways, but the TSC is not that great. I’d die on the hill that the Royals need to be downtown KCMO, but it might actually benefit Missouri if Kansas is going to dump a bunch of incentives on the Chiefs if they move out to KCK

[DColeKC]

Why wouldn't they cancel it, there isn't anything to agree around?

Exactly. Now they’ll just buy it up without all the contingencies. Or not. Who knows. A big can of worms has been opened but hey, maybe we bought a few local businesses a few more years before they naturally turn over into something else.

Man no reason to be nasty about small business. Most of us in here really want all our small businesses investing in downtown to succeed and makes downtown what it is and unique

I'm not being nasty about it, but Jill Cockson and her establishment won't be there in a decade, yet she made it sound like a nuke would ruin the crossroads. So here we are, missing out on a shot in the arm for downtowns progress. It's just very much KC.

The more I learn today, the more disappointed I am to find out how this all worked out. I think I'm close to recanting my previous comments about East Crossroads still being on the table. It's starting to sound like downtown baseball is gone. Could just be the initial gut reaction of those in power but this is a sad week in Kansas City development history. It doesn't matter who's fault it is.

[KCPowercat]

Well it kinda matters who is at fault and it's squarely on the teams lack of a developed plan to present to voters.

The jills and KC tenants of the world didn't move the needle from pass to fail that's for sure.

Anything done today is definitely a gut reaction and shouldn't be taken as any sort of final direction

[GRID]

Real question- why would the Chiefs moving to Kansas by the racetrack be bad?

You could place it by the old Cerner building and use the space for team offices, the parking situation could be better formalized, and there are hotels, restaurants, entertainment and a casino nearby. The TSC site has none of this.

The Royals will end up near downtown KCMO or in another region. I don’t see how moving to KS is an improvement for them.

I still think this is the Plan B. Royals get funded by KCMO and the Chiefs pit MO v KS in a tax incentive battle and, depending on the structure, Missouri may actually be better off if the team ends up in KS.

Because it's just more of KCMO's culture, identity and economy moving to KS. People would actually be right when they say things like "all the players live in KS", "all the fans are from KS" etc. More out of town fans would stay in KS hotels. You are continuing to erode KCMO's importance as the core city of the metro. Village west is almost three times as far from downtown as the TSC and it's in a state that competes with KCMO more than it cooperates with KCMO.

I agree in some ways, but the TSC is not that great. I’d die on the hill that the Royals need to be downtown KCMO, but it might actually benefit Missouri if Kansas is going to dump a bunch of incentives on the Chiefs if they move out to KCK

I don't see how it could possibly benefit MO. I mean I don't see KS building a super stadium and even if they did, I don't see the NFL being interested in a Superbowl in a location like Village West. They will do Downtown Nashville maybe once, but Village West? No appeal.

And you will move probably 80% of those visiting KC and currently staying in MO side hotels to KS side hotels. Overland Park, Shawnee, Lenexa and western KCK will see an uptick in hotel stays possibly justifying more hotels while downtown KCMO continues to to struggle with aging hotel stock and very little new properties. The only benefit to MO would be less tax dollars going to the stadium itself.

[TheBigChuckbowski]

Honestly, if the Royals are done with downtown because of one failed vote that they completely screwed up, then they weren't serious about executing a quality urban project to begin with and we're probably better off. I just don't think plopping a poorly planned stadium into the middle of downtown with little thought would've been all that beneficial. At least without Oak closing, the worst spin-off effects may have been mitigated but I'm not convinced any bad stadium is better than no stadium.

And, after this shit-show of a campaign and being a disaster on the field for almost my entire life, my confidence in the Royals executing anything well is close to zero.

[DColeKC]

Well it kinda matters who is at fault and it's squarely on the teams lack of a developed plan to present to voters.

The jills and KC tenants of the world didn't move the needle from pass to fail that's for sure.

Anything done today is definitely a gut reaction and shouldn't be taken as any sort of final direction

Well, what I'm hearing today is a real gut punch. Just hard to be even slightly optimistic about the chances of downtown baseball at this point.

I sincerely believe that any downtown stadium is doomed if it relies on this metro to vote for it. Downtown is where you go to get your car stolen, stuck in traffic and get beat up by homeless people according to so many. We've not been able to change that misconception for two decades now.

Someone asked if I'm just now realizing the Mayor is a POS. I knew he was a politician but did't know he was a coward.

[beautyfromashes]

It's starting to sound like downtown baseball is gone. Could just be the initial gut reaction of those in power but this is a sad week in Kansas City development history. It doesn't matter whose fault it is.

Naw, just your EC site is dead. I had someone message me today that said, “They did the hard part for us.” So, thanks to Cordish for that. The Chiefs might be gone, but I guess the governor and state fly in to save the day. Baseball is meant for downtown.

[DColeKC]

Honestly, if the Royals are done with downtown because of one failed vote that they completely screwed up, then they weren't serious about executing a quality urban project to begin with and we're probably better off. I just don't think plopping a poorly planned stadium into the middle of downtown with little thought would've been all that beneficial. At least without Oak closing, the worst spin-off effects may have been mitigated but I'm not convinced any bad stadium is better than no stadium.

And, after this shit-show of a campaign and being a disaster on the field for almost my entire life, my confidence in the Royals executing anything well is close to zero.

I think it's the margin of loss that has them out on downtown as of today. They're accepting some blame internally but will they eat shit publicly?

[DColeKC]

It's starting to sound like downtown baseball is gone. Could just be the initial gut reaction of those in power but this is a sad week in Kansas City development history. It doesn't matter whose fault it is.

Naw, just your EC site is dead. I had someone message me today that said, “They did the hard part for us.” So, thanks to Cordish for that. The Chiefs might be gone, but I guess the governor and state fly in to save the day. Baseball is meant for downtown.

Weird, the people who make these decisions disagree with you. Today at least.

Not sure how many times I'm going to have to explain how Cordish played a role here. They wanted downtown baseball, they didn't twist arms into the East Crossroads site. There was some nudging but it wasn't by Cordish.

[TheBigChuckbowski]

I sincerely believe that any downtown stadium is doomed if it relies on this metro to vote for it. Downtown is where you go to get your car stolen, stuck in traffic and get beat up by homeless people according to so many. We've not been able to change that misconception for two decades now.

Voters approved the Sprint Center 20 years ago. Union Station 30 years ago. Downtown's done nothing but improve since then. Face it, it was a terrible campaign. End of story. This is not an indictment on Kansas City voters.

[GRID]

I agree. If the vote were a near pass things would be different.

They got clobbered. In the city and in the suburbs.

The Royals may have dropped the ball but they also learned a lot from this vote. People in KC do not want a downtown stadium and if the Royals want to move downtown, they will have to find a way to do it without a general election vote.

The Royals are in a serious mess with where they go now and downtown just missed out on the biggest opportunity in decades for some actual private investment along with a ton of public investment. For example, had the Royals moved downtown, you might see some additional funding sources (fed, state, private etc) for the 670 cap completed faster to Grand and untimely to Oak. Now it might slowly progress to Grand, but it will never go to Oak. Same with hotels, highrise residential etc. Less will be in the pipeline compared to had the vote passed.

[mourban]

It still befuddles the mind that they didn’t plan this better

[KCPowercat]

Well it kinda matters who is at fault and it's squarely on the teams lack of a developed plan to present to voters.

The jills and KC tenants of the world didn't move the needle from pass to fail that's for sure.

Anything done today is definitely a gut reaction and shouldn't be taken as any sort of final direction

Well, what I'm hearing today is a real gut punch. Just hard to be even slightly optimistic about the chances of downtown baseball at this point.

I sincerely believe that any downtown stadium is doomed if it relies on this metro to vote for it. Downtown is where you go to get your car stolen, stuck in traffic and get beat up by homeless people according to so many. We've not been able to change that misconception for two decades now.

Someone asked if I'm just now realizing the Mayor is a POS. I knew he was a politician but did't know he was a coward.

I don't know what you are referencing to respond to this. I'm sure you'll tell us it's not something you can talk about. I would say in general the opinion of downtown hasn't ever been higher metro wide since it's downfall back in the 70s or whatever.

[KCPowercat]

I sincerely believe that any downtown stadium is doomed if it relies on this metro to vote for it. Downtown is where you go to get your car stolen, stuck in traffic and get beat up by homeless people according to so many. We've not been able to change that misconception for two decades now.

Voters approved the Sprint Center 20 years ago. Union Station 30 years ago. Downtown's done nothing but improve since then. Face it, it was a terrible campaign. End of story. This is not an indictment on Kansas City voters.

Exactly. this woo is me blame the fear of downtown is ridiculous. Downtown's rep hasn't been higher in our lifetimes.

[TheBigChuckbowski]

Honestly, if the Royals are done with downtown because of one failed vote that they completely screwed up, then they weren't serious about executing a quality urban project to begin with and we're probably better off. I just don't think plopping a poorly planned stadium into the middle of downtown with little thought would've been all that beneficial. At least without Oak closing, the worst spin-off effects may have been mitigated but I'm not convinced any bad stadium is better than no stadium.

And, after this shit-show of a campaign and being a disaster on the field for almost my entire life, my confidence in the Royals executing anything well is close to zero.

I think it's the margin of loss that has them out on downtown as of today. They're accepting some blame internally but will they eat shit publicly?

They should. Maybe they need to hire a consultant that hasn't been involved to tell them what went wrong? Should be pretty clear that they screwed something up every step of the way. And, let's not forget that the Chiefs' terrible plan was a part of this as well. We can't say for sure how much that was an anchor on the Royals' proposal. The site should've been selected 9+ months before the vote to iron out the details that were getting worked on up to and ON election day, build a consensus and endorsements so that the full court press could've been put on the last couple months with nothing but positivity and excitement. Instead, the campaign was a confusing mess. There wasn't enough time for voters to even know what they were committing to. Now is the time to separate the funding of the teams and make a (significantly improved and competent and not rushed) pitch to (KCMO or multi-county) voters. Doesn't really make sense for Jackson County to foot the bill for both stadiums anyway.

[Highlander]

I agree. If the vote were a near pass things would be different.

They got clobbered. In the city and in the suburbs.

The Royals may have dropped the ball but they also learned a lot from this vote. People in KC do not want a downtown stadium and if the Royals want to move downtown, they will have to find a way to do it without a general election vote.

The Royals are in a serious mess with where they go now and downtown just missed out on the biggest opportunity in decades for some actual private investment along with a ton of public investment. For example, had the Royals moved downtown, you might see some additional funding sources (fed, state, private etc) for the 670 cap completed faster to Grand and untimely to Oak. Now it might slowly progress to Grand, but it will never go to Oak. Same with hotels, highrise residential etc. Less will be in the pipeline compared to had the vote passed.

I don't know. 42% approval. They only need to convince less than 1 in ten no voters to get it done in another election. A lot of voters, particularly those in eastern Jackson County, will soon find out that the threats to leave Jackson County and even the metro were anything but empty and may realize they overplayed their hands. It doesn't have to be left where it is right now.

[KCPowercat]

I agree. If the vote were a near pass things would be different.

They got clobbered. In the city and in the suburbs.

The Royals may have dropped the ball but they also learned a lot from this vote. People in KC do not want a downtown stadium and if the Royals want to move downtown, they will have to find a way to do it without a general election vote.

this is not what they (should have) learned. I can't count how many people I've read said they wanted downtown baseball but this plan sucked. That's the lesson to learn, not that the location is poison.

[GRID]

https://www.kansascity.com/news/politic ... 57330.html

Former Kansas House Speaker Ron Ryckman Jr., an Olathe Republican, is quietly working with unnamed parties interested in bringing the Kansas City Chiefs across the border, The Star has learned.

“Jackson County fumbled. Now there will be a mad scramble for the ball and we’re in the best position for a scoop and score,” Ryckman said in a text message to The Star.

If Kansas makes a significant push for the Chiefs, the team would have to weigh the offer against the prospect of going back to Jackson County voters again. After losing the sales tax vote, 58% to 42%, Chiefs president Mark Donovan and Royals owner John Sherman ignored a shouted question at a watch party Tuesday night about whether the teams will stay in the county. The campaign for the sales tax – formally called the Committee to Keep the Chiefs and Royals in Jackson County – had operated on the implied threat that one or both teams would leave if the ballot measure failed.

On Tuesday before the outcome of the vote was known, Missouri House Majority Leader Jonathan Patterson, a Lee’s Summit Republican, said he was very worried about the Chiefs leaving if the tax failed. But he also cast doubt on state funding for the teams. “I’m supportive of keeping the Royals and the Chiefs in Kansas City, but the state budget is required for a lot of different programs around the state and right now it’s very difficult to see how we could allocate money directly to the Chiefs and Royals for a new stadium,” said Patterson, who is also the likely next Missouri House speaker.

The Missouri House is poised to approve its version of a roughly $50 billion budget that does not include state funding for the Chiefs or Royals stadium projects. Missouri Senate Minority Leader John Rizzo, an Independence Democrat, said it would be “incredibly difficult” for the General Assembly to provide funding this year when Jackson County residents themselves voted down county-level aid.

[DColeKC]

I sincerely believe that any downtown stadium is doomed if it relies on this metro to vote for it. Downtown is where you go to get your car stolen, stuck in traffic and get beat up by homeless people according to so many. We've not been able to change that misconception for two decades now.

Voters approved the Sprint Center 20 years ago. Union Station 30 years ago. Downtown's done nothing but improve since then. Face it, it was a terrible campaign. End of story. This is not an indictment on Kansas City voters.

It was a terrible campaign, but that's not the whole story. We've all seen the bullshit arguments about how downtown is this and that, all negative. We will never get the general public to vote for a sales tax to pay for anything that requires them to come downtown. The T-Mobile Center was a rental car and hotel tax, paid for by visitors. Easy yes on that one.

Union Station Renovation was a one time tax, no brainer.

[KCPowercat]

I sincerely believe that any downtown stadium is doomed if it relies on this metro to vote for it. Downtown is where you go to get your car stolen, stuck in traffic and get beat up by homeless people according to so many. We've not been able to change that misconception for two decades now.

Voters approved the Sprint Center 20 years ago. Union Station 30 years ago. Downtown's done nothing but improve since then. Face it, it was a terrible campaign. End of story. This is not an indictment on Kansas City voters.

It was a terrible campaign, but that's not the whole story. We've all seen the bullshit arguments about how downtown is this and that, all negative. We will never get the general public to vote for a sales tax to pay for anything that requires them to come downtown. The T-Mobile Center was a rental car and hotel tax, paid for by visitors. Easy yes on that one.

Union Station Renovation was a one time tax, no brainer.

these teams and whomever is feeding them these excuses are more inept than it appeared during the campaign if they are now believing and using "ohh people are scared of downtown" as their reason for this failing. This is literally a bad half baked plan exposed. A solid plan out there for months with design and a good CBA would have been 65% yes.

Just yesterday you predicted it would pass.