Downtown Baseball Stadium

[DColeKC]

You're begging the question. The royals can't give us details unless we pass a tax, therefore we should pass a tax so the royals give us details.

It's complete circular logic.

Maybe so, but my argument is the voters don't need to know the final plans in order to be well informed on how specifically this portion of their tax dollars will be used. We've seen the concept, we've been told the estimated cost to build, do we want commit to the Royals staying in Jackson County long term by extending or renewing the existing 3/8th sales tax or not.

There is no lease without the tax either. Why would you sign a lease agreement before knowing if the landlord is willing to properly help fund such a huge project? There's also nothing legally binding that I'm aware of that forces the county to sign the lease just because the vote passes to fund the project long term. This is why we have elected officials who are supposed to continue to work on those details after we get our say.

[WoodDraw]

I really wanted to vote yes, but I went no.

I think this is the worst campaign I've seen in Kansas city.

[DColeKC]

I really wanted to vote yes, but I went no.

I think this is the worst campaign I've seen in Kansas city.

Roll out terrible but the "campaign" just started. I have hope yet.

If it fails and they end up in Kansas or NKC, I can't think of a more disappointing failed opportunity in our downtowns history. I'm not placing blame on those who don't support it either, I'll place that where it belongs.

[WoodDraw]

I'm away so couldn't wait. Terrible royals roll out, terrible chiefs roll out, pardon for almost killing a girl, ask for more money for the stadium with no plans, no plans solid for the "district".

Will vote no on Monday.

[dnweava]

The royals just doomed the vote. How out of touch and stupid is their ownership? Every day gets worse. Both teams are being extremely shady and I no longer blame anyone for not trusting anything. I've been saying all along things feel fishy,l and that they royals are lying shit things. this new article proves my feeling was right. Even if the vote passes I give it about a 50% chance of happening as they won't even sign a lease

The fact that the owners or reps are not out doing podcasts or answering literally any of the concerns has turned me off also. I went from hardcore Yes to No in the last week. I don't trust them to keep oak open, more and more secret public funding is needed, they won't commit to a damn thing. I hope they move. I'd much rather have an NHL team than the loser Royals anyways and with them gone that gives us a better chance IMO.

https://kcbeacon.org/stories/2024/03/01 ... nding-gap/

[beautyfromashes]

I'm away so couldn't wait. Terrible royals roll out, terrible chiefs roll out, pardon for almost killing a girl, ask for more money for the stadium with no plans, no plans solid for the "district".

Will vote no on Monday.

Before this rollout, I would have said there is zero chance I would vote against a downtown Royals stadium. The arrogance is what kills me, both in the product put out for the money given, the lack of understanding of those displaced, the mismanagement by the city of East Village property and the utter lack of transparency of it all. Now we're talking about additional money coming from the city. So, more tax money going in this huge pot? And this was SO easy. Show some humility. You're asking normal people to give a huge amount of money. Take it seriously! I'm inclined to vote no to show the teams and political leaders that they need to do much more. If that causes it to die or jump to Kansas, I won't feel any guilt.

[DColeKC]

I mean it literally says it right in the article. The state will not finalize any money for the stadium until after the vote. The city is under the same conditions although they’ve been talking about it for months.

This isn’t the same as the renovations. It’s a new stadium. The county was the only funding source for the renovations for the most part I believe.

We have time to get in the weeds but there’s no need before we learn to walk first.

[GRID]

Damn, this whole thing is falling apart. Maybe it should.

The Chiefs are not doing enough. Period. That comment about this already dated design not being complete till 2031 is really eye opening.

The Royals are saying they are doing a lot more, but with absolutely nothing to back it up. Their renderings look like total vaporware in a city that sees very little tower construction or infrastructure investment. I just don't see the 670 cap, the bridge over the park, all the development on the Oak side happening etc. The Royals won't even figure out a way to keep the Crown Vision shape in the scoreboard, something that nearly every single fan has asked for and who knows if they can even pull off keeping a decent fountain display in the stadium.

If the Royals can't pull off building this right in the east crossroads then they really probably should walk away from the ECR and go with EV where they can't do more damage than good. Right now, I'm imagining a bunch of cleared lots east of Oak with nothing on them for years (much like all the newly cleared lots around the arena) and the 670 cap being "talked about" for another 20 freaking years.

Neither team seems to be really listing to what the fans want in these new/remodeled stadiums and neither team is being transparent. They are treating KC people like they are the dumbest people on the planet and will pass anything.

I do not see how in the world this passes right now and if I lived there, even I would take serious step back at what I'm voting for.

[KCPowercat]

No, it's not. A new stadium alone isn't the magic pill to increase revenue and put a better team on the field. People keep inaccurately assuming John Sherman is just a rich smuck who wants more money from taxpayers to pad his own personal wealth. He wants to leave a legacy of winning and he knows it ain't happening consistently at The K.

They need to show their math on all this. Nobody has seen anything to back this up.

Because it's all a pointless exercise if they can't even get this one critical vote won. This is step one of several when asking for such a low sales tax. It would be much different if they were asking for this one tax to cover all the costs. The other funding depends on this vote and won't require a vote from the public.

Right but if this vote then truly unlocks the city and state on the hook for another 700M voters should know that. That's not chump change. Not to mention the county losing 300M of taxable properties forever

[mean]

I think this may be the most badly fumbled thing that had the potential to be an easy touchdown I've ever seen in my life. Even as a heavily skeptical and likely no-vote, I'm not happy about this. It's a really bad look. There's time, but not much, to turn things around, and I'm not sure even if we reanimated the corpse of Steve Glorioso could he find a way to spin this.

[wahoowa]

Right now it's vapor. They don't even own the land.

Come out and say this is our plan and this is how we are financing it. They keep just making up numbers.

Well if that's how we are judging if things are vapor, I guess the entire idea of a new stadium is vapor. This location, Kansas, NKC... all vapor.

i know this is not a fair or helpful comment and i'm cherrypicking etc etc but sometimes your rhetorical characterizations of the other side's arguments are funny to me in that i think the other side would say "exactly, you're finally getting it" lol

[beautyfromashes]

This has the makings of a second East Village.

[TheBigChuckbowski]

So... What happens if the county sales tax passes but the team can't get the money from the city and state? Are we paying to maintain a non-existent stadium for the next 40 years?

[KCKev]

Sitting on my bookshelf is my show me series coke bottle from 1985. That happened at the K!

[DColeKC]

So... What happens if the county sales tax passes but the team can't get the money from the city and state? Are we paying to maintain a non-existent stadium for the next 40 years?

The money has already been discussed with the leaders of those two entities agreeing to go to bat for the team. No pun intended.

I think we should just do the small midwest stereotypical thing and say fuck it. NO! You can' have my $72 dollars a year for your big shiny stadium! I want to know what every door handle will look like and where every penny will be spent. I'd also like no one to be even slightly inconvenienced. Please fit a baseball stadium in a footprint smaller than any other MLB stadium has ever been so we can keep all our extremely busy streets open. And how dare you not put a crown on top of those "conceptual drawings".

Maybe they can extend Oak all the way to Kansas and call it "Royal Way".

Sorry for the vent here but it's one thing seeing average joes saying they'll vote no but didn't expect this on a development forum. Can't wait to come back here in a decade when none of the existing businesses that currently occupy this area of EC are there anymore. It's still dark and boring. The Star Building is a rich persons fancy car show room and East Village is still empty surface lots because we don't have reason to build it out.

This location is the next evolution of our downtowns progress. It slows so far down without this. At this point, they're presenting a conceptual business plan hoping to get financing. So many things would change after it goes from concept to reality. We should have had MLS Soccer down here but Kansas kicked our ass and now we've got a MLS stadium next to a fucking Nebraska Furniture Mart. Step right up MLB, let's "KC" this thing up.

[mean]

Technically it is financing, but it's not the kind I could go out and get, which makes me wonder why they don't just go to the bank? Because of interest fees, and the whole concept of paying it back? Gotcha. Well, that's insanely good financing if you can get it.

They'd theoretically pay it back through the taxes collected, maybe someday, if they generate projected revenues. But I have to assume they won't actually be on the hook like a regular person who can't repay their debts. The whole system is kind of screwed up imo.

[dnweava]

So... What happens if the county sales tax passes but the team can't get the money from the city and state? Are we paying to maintain a non-existent stadium for the next 40 years?

The money has already been discussed with the leaders of those two entities agreeing to go to bat for the team. No pun intended.

I think we should just do the small midwest stereotypical thing and say fuck it. NO! You can' have my $72 dollars a year for your big shiny stadium! I want to know what every door handle will look like and where every penny will be spent. I'd also like no one to be even slightly inconvenienced. Please fit a baseball stadium in a footprint smaller than any other MLB stadium has ever been so we can keep all our extremely busy streets open. And how dare you not put a crown on top of those "conceptual drawings".

Maybe they can extend Oak all the way to Kansas and call it "Royal Way".

Sorry for the vent here but it's one thing seeing average joes saying they'll vote no but didn't expect this on a development forum. Can't wait to come back here in a decade when none of the existing businesses that currently occupy this area of EC are there anymore. It's still dark and boring. The Star Building is a rich persons fancy car show room and East Village is still empty surface lots because we don't have reason to build it out.

This location is the next evolution of our downtowns progress. It slows so far down without this. At this point, they're presenting a conceptual business plan hoping to get financing. So many things would change after it goes from concept to reality. We should have had MLS Soccer down here but Kansas kicked our ass and now we've got a MLS stadium next to a fucking Nebraska Furniture Mart. Step right up MLB, let's "KC" this thing up.

You are being as tone deaf as the billionaire owners which is why it's going to fail unless you wake up and get the owners to wake up quickly as people are already voting.

It's not about $72/year, it's about how all of the upgrades Arrowhead are for luxury boxes and not for the average taxpayer that's funding it.

It's not about pennies and doorknobs, it's about 100s of millions that are unaccounted for and why they are being dishonest about the true costs to the taxpayers when unspecified amounts are coming from other levels of government.

It's not just about Oak and the businesses, it's about their total disregard for everyone in their way, treating the area as something they are entited to. There were literally multiple construction projects ongoing that the royals didn't have the courteousy to tell the owners that they were wasting their time and money.

It's not just about crown vision missing, it's about how fans have been loud as hell since the original EV drawings came out years ago without crown vision. It shows the owners aren't listening,

[DColeKC]

Technically it is financing, but it's not the kind I could go out and get, which makes me wonder why they don't just go to the bank? Because of interest fees, and the whole concept of paying it back? Gotcha. Well, that's insanely good financing if you can get it.

They'd theoretically pay it back through the taxes collected, maybe someday, if they generate projected revenues. But I have to assume they won't actually be on the hook like a regular person who can't repay their debts. The whole system is kind of screwed up imo.

I think the idea is the money greatly impacts the city and its citizens in ways that can't be put down on paper. Especially for a city the size of Kansas City. The NYC's of the world would be just fine without a single sports franchise but we need them badly.

How do you put a dollar figure on things like:

Community identity/Pride
Civic Unity
Boost to local morale
National and International recognition.
Inspo and Role Models
Community engagement and Charitable Work
Cultural Diversity
Legacy/History
Networking/Business Relationships
and on and on.

[DColeKC]

So... What happens if the county sales tax passes but the team can't get the money from the city and state? Are we paying to maintain a non-existent stadium for the next 40 years?

The money has already been discussed with the leaders of those two entities agreeing to go to bat for the team. No pun intended.

I think we should just do the small midwest stereotypical thing and say fuck it. NO! You can' have my $72 dollars a year for your big shiny stadium! I want to know what every door handle will look like and where every penny will be spent. I'd also like no one to be even slightly inconvenienced. Please fit a baseball stadium in a footprint smaller than any other MLB stadium has ever been so we can keep all our extremely busy streets open. And how dare you not put a crown on top of those "conceptual drawings".

Maybe they can extend Oak all the way to Kansas and call it "Royal Way".

Sorry for the vent here but it's one thing seeing average joes saying they'll vote no but didn't expect this on a development forum. Can't wait to come back here in a decade when none of the existing businesses that currently occupy this area of EC are there anymore. It's still dark and boring. The Star Building is a rich persons fancy car show room and East Village is still empty surface lots because we don't have reason to build it out.

This location is the next evolution of our downtowns progress. It slows so far down without this. At this point, they're presenting a conceptual business plan hoping to get financing. So many things would change after it goes from concept to reality. We should have had MLS Soccer down here but Kansas kicked our ass and now we've got a MLS stadium next to a fucking Nebraska Furniture Mart. Step right up MLB, let's "KC" this thing up.

You are being as tone deaf as the billionaire owners which is why it's going to fail unless you wake up and get the owners to wake up quickly as people are already voting.

It's not about $72/year, it's about how all of the upgrades Arrowhead are for luxury boxes and not for the average taxpayer that's funding it.

It's not about pennies and doorknobs, it's about 100s of millions that are unaccounted for and why they are being dishonest about the true costs to the taxpayers when unspecified amounts are coming from other levels of government.

It's not just about Oak and the businesses, it's about their total disregard for everyone in their way, treating the area as something they are entited to. There were literally multiple construction projects ongoing that the royals didn't have the courteousy to tell the owners that they were wasting their time and money.

It's not just about crown vision missing, it's about how fans have been loud as hell since the original EV drawings came out years ago without crown vision. It shows the owners aren't listening,

I'm not being tone deaf, I'm pissed off! I'm frustrated that we are going to fuck this up as a city and there's no coming back from it... For what?! Because we didn't have a fucking pro-forma in front of us for review? Because we may need to tack on an extra 10 minutes to our drive times? Because we want to save a few small business tenants for a few more years even though they won't be there long term anyway? Because certain details didn't make CONCEPTUAL DRAWINGS that are going to change 500 times before a shovel hits dirt?

This portion of the funding is the only portion being asked for which requires a vote. The special issue bonds don't require citizens input. We already elected people whom we intrust to decide on our behalf if that's a good idea or not. If it works out as planned and with the cities much more conservative approach these days, tax payers won't be paying for any of those special issue bonds. We've already paid the taxes to the state and they get federal funding for these types of projects as well. Once again, we've already voted for the people to make those decisions on our behalf.

We need to stop looking at these two teams as little toys owned by rich people who want to make more money. Neither Clark or John Sherman are stacking cash in their bank accounts from these teams. They very likely don't see a penny of the revenue and instead, see their "wealth" grow as the teams valuation rises. These teams are entitled to certain things in my opinion. They do more for this city in intangible ways than anything else we've got to offer. So yeah, give em some damn money. It's worth every penny and it's worth all of us not getting everything we want.

[TheBigChuckbowski]

So... What happens if the county sales tax passes but the team can't get the money from the city and state? Are we paying to maintain a non-existent stadium for the next 40 years?

The money has already been discussed with the leaders of those two entities agreeing to go to bat for the team. No pun intended.

I think we should just do the small midwest stereotypical thing and say fuck it. NO! You can' have my $72 dollars a year for your big shiny stadium! I want to know what every door handle will look like and where every penny will be spent. I'd also like no one to be even slightly inconvenienced. Please fit a baseball stadium in a footprint smaller than any other MLB stadium has ever been so we can keep all our extremely busy streets open. And how dare you not put a crown on top of those "conceptual drawings".

Maybe they can extend Oak all the way to Kansas and call it "Royal Way".

Sorry for the vent here but it's one thing seeing average joes saying they'll vote no but didn't expect this on a development forum. Can't wait to come back here in a decade when none of the existing businesses that currently occupy this area of EC are there anymore. It's still dark and boring. The Star Building is a rich persons fancy car show room and East Village is still empty surface lots because we don't have reason to build it out.

This location is the next evolution of our downtowns progress. It slows so far down without this. At this point, they're presenting a conceptual business plan hoping to get financing. So many things would change after it goes from concept to reality. We should have had MLS Soccer down here but Kansas kicked our ass and now we've got a MLS stadium next to a fucking Nebraska Furniture Mart. Step right up MLB, let's "KC" this thing up.

None of this very thoughtful and thorough analysis included an answer to my question.