Downtown Baseball Stadium

[bricknose]

And a sales tax is shared by more than just the residents of the city. I live in Kansas but spend a lot of time in Missouri and nearly all of my entertainment budget and many of my day to day purchases are spent in Missouri. All visitors coming in from out of town for a Chiefs game, an NCAA or B12 tournament or concert contribute to the sales tax.

They must have taken the final number and divided it by the number of residents. You’re absolutely right, which is why my estimate went the other direction. I took the median income of Jackson County, $32k, divided it by half (because I think it’s fair to assume that with federal, state, and city taxes, rent, and other non-sales-tax expenses, most probably do not spend more than have their income making purchases), and multiply by 3/8 of a percent. Even that $60 is probably exaggerated. I just have no idea how many taxable purchases the median Jackson City resident makes.

[aknowledgeableperson]

One person's viewpoint on the sales tax. And this is not from an anti-stadium Facebook page, just a general KC page. Personally I really don't care if they put a stadium downtown or not. However IMO the best location would be the East Village. That land has more or less been set aside for a stadium. Now who knows when, or if, that area will be developed.
"LET'S HAVE A REAL DISCUSSION ABOUT THE ROYALS (and the Chiefs)...
The rumor is the Chiefs want the Royals to move so that they can take over the whole complex there and build an entertainment district (like a Chiefs version of the Legends EDIT: a permanent tailgating area). They should be releasing plans soon, so we will see. While I don't hate that idea, I do hate our taxpayer dollars going into funding it.
But more importantly, here's the biggest reason to VOTE NO against the tax joke to help the Royals build a new "stadium" on top of the Crossroads Arts District. Look at the picture below and pay close attention to this next part...
IT'S NOT REALLY ABOUT THE STADIUM!
Royals owner, John Sherman, is worth more than a billion dollars and is the founder and CEO of an energy company that merged with another in 2013 to become one of the biggest in North America. The stadium complex the Royals want to build will cost around $2 billion, but it includes things like a hotel, a conference center and various entertainment venues. So it’s not just a park Sherman wants KC residents to foot the bill for, it’s also businesses that will continue to pad his bank account far into the future. Sherman clearly figures that, hey, what red-blooded baseball-loving American wouldn’t want to pay for a billionaire’s further enrichment?
The Berkeley Economic Review says that the belief that stadiums will generate more revenue than communities put into them is unfounded. “The average stadium generates $145 million per year, but none of this revenue goes back into the community. As such, the prevalent idea among team owners of ‘socializing the costs and privatizing the profits’ is harmful and unfair to people who are forced to pay for a stadium that will not help them.”
John Sherman and the Royals have barely mentioned the hotels and conference center. Why? Because that's the real objective. THAT is where they'll make akk their money. The ballpark is only used for 81 homegames a year. But the hotel and conference center can be used year round, generating far more money for him than the Royals do. So taxpayers foot a huge portion of the bill for 40 years, he bulldozes blocks of historic buildings, sneaks in a hotel and convention center in the deal, adds some parks to make families smile, and hoped we won't notice or care because of the shiny new ballpark.
Don't fall for it. Let him build it somewhere else. A new stadium won't fix the team. It won't add more butts to the seats. People don't want to waste money buying tickets to watch their team lose all the time. Start winning again and you'll sell more tickets. This whole deal is a mess and I hope it fails.
For anyone that doesn't understand the amount of money we're talking here, it's $100,000,000 to $126,000,000 a year, every year, for 40 years that we're voting on giving to these organizations owned by very, very rich people.
Think about that.
Sadly... it feels inevitable and I'm sorry for all the small businesses that are going to be hurt because of it. In case you care, here's a list of some of them:
(From the Kansas City Star) Green Dirt on Oak, a forthcoming farm-to-table restaurant at 1601 Oak St. The Pairing, a wine bar and grocery store at 1615 Oak St. Chartreuse Saloon, a Western-themed cocktail bar at 1627 Oak St. Kobi Q, a Korean barbecue restaurant at 1531 Grand Blvd. Mama Ramen, a ramen restaurant and bubble tea shop at 1513 Grand Blvd. (downstairs) PokeSan, a poke and dumplings restaurant at 1513 Grand Blvd. (upstairs) Prime, a bar and restaurant at 1501 Grand Blvd. Suzy’s Deli at 1533 Grand Blvd. SHOPPING KC Kush, a cannabis products store at 1620 Locust St. The Mercy Seat, a tattoo parlor at 210 E. 16th St. The Supply Truck, a tattoo parlor at 1529 Grand Blvd. Salon on Grand, a hair salon at 1537 Grand Blvd. KC Conjure & Botania, a candle shop and apothecary at 1620 Locust St #400. Royal Master Cleaners, a dry cleaning service at 1505 Grand Blvd. The Cigar Box, a bar at 1519 Grand Blvd. OTHER LOCATIONS The Harlow, a wedding and event venue at 1525 Grand Blvd. The Bear Champ mural by local street art group SpraySeeMO near 1600 Locust St. Resurrection Downtown, a United Methodist church at 1601 Grand Blvd. U-Haul Moving & Storage of Power & Light and U-Haul Truck Rental at 1520 Locust St. The offices of businesses including Amgraf, AgSwag, Lexitas Legal, O’Neill Events & Marketing, Renaissance Infrastructure Consulting, Risa McKinney Photo, the Dojo on Oak and Steadfast Security."

[Belvidere]

This economist is an expert.

Everybody wants a thriving downtown.

https://www.aei.org/podcast/j-c-bradbur ... subsidies/

[bricknose]

From https://www.kansascity.com/news/politic ... 55497.html

The Royals said last week that their plan is to buy the properties and then hand title to the county, which would own the stadium.

So the county owns the stadium? Then it’s not building a stadium for a billionaire at all. So that talking point can be kicked away.

[Highlander]

From https://www.kansascity.com/news/politic ... 55497.html

The Royals said last week that their plan is to buy the properties and then hand title to the county, which would own the stadium.

So the county owns the stadium? Then it’s not building a stadium for a billionaire at all. So that talking point can be kicked away.

Gentrification is not a dirty word to me. It's an absolute necessity for KC's economic health in the future. But the stadium is not a recipe for gentrification. That's nuts.

[dnweava]

From https://www.kansascity.com/news/politic ... 55497.html

The Royals said last week that their plan is to buy the properties and then hand title to the county, which would own the stadium.

So the county owns the stadium? Then it’s not building a stadium for a billionaire at all. So that talking point can be kicked away.

I'm very interested in if the land transfer will happen before or after construction as that will effect things like which juristiction permits and inspects the stadium.

[KCPowercat]

From https://www.kansascity.com/news/politic ... 55497.html

The Royals said last week that their plan is to buy the properties and then hand title to the county, which would own the stadium.

So the county owns the stadium? Then it’s not building a stadium for a billionaire at all. So that talking point can be kicked away.

It most certainly still is building it for the Royals. They just lease it. Which brings up another salient point, what lease are they signing? Another important piece that the voters should know about.

[DColeKC]

One person's viewpoint on the sales tax. And this is not from an anti-stadium Facebook page, just a general KC page. Personally I really don't care if they put a stadium downtown or not. However IMO the best location would be the East Village. That land has more or less been set aside for a stadium. Now who knows when, or if, that area will be developed.
"LET'S HAVE A REAL DISCUSSION ABOUT THE ROYALS (and the Chiefs)...
The rumor is the Chiefs want the Royals to move so that they can take over the whole complex there and build an entertainment district (like a Chiefs version of the Legends EDIT: a permanent tailgating area). They should be releasing plans soon, so we will see. While I don't hate that idea, I do hate our taxpayer dollars going into funding it.
But more importantly, here's the biggest reason to VOTE NO against the tax joke to help the Royals build a new "stadium" on top of the Crossroads Arts District. Look at the picture below and pay close attention to this next part...
IT'S NOT REALLY ABOUT THE STADIUM!
Royals owner, John Sherman, is worth more than a billion dollars and is the founder and CEO of an energy company that merged with another in 2013 to become one of the biggest in North America. The stadium complex the Royals want to build will cost around $2 billion, but it includes things like a hotel, a conference center and various entertainment venues. So it’s not just a park Sherman wants KC residents to foot the bill for, it’s also businesses that will continue to pad his bank account far into the future. Sherman clearly figures that, hey, what red-blooded baseball-loving American wouldn’t want to pay for a billionaire’s further enrichment?
The Berkeley Economic Review says that the belief that stadiums will generate more revenue than communities put into them is unfounded. “The average stadium generates $145 million per year, but none of this revenue goes back into the community. As such, the prevalent idea among team owners of ‘socializing the costs and privatizing the profits’ is harmful and unfair to people who are forced to pay for a stadium that will not help them.”
John Sherman and the Royals have barely mentioned the hotels and conference center. Why? Because that's the real objective. THAT is where they'll make akk their money. The ballpark is only used for 81 homegames a year. But the hotel and conference center can be used year round, generating far more money for him than the Royals do. So taxpayers foot a huge portion of the bill for 40 years, he bulldozes blocks of historic buildings, sneaks in a hotel and convention center in the deal, adds some parks to make families smile, and hoped we won't notice or care because of the shiny new ballpark.
Don't fall for it. Let him build it somewhere else. A new stadium won't fix the team. It won't add more butts to the seats. People don't want to waste money buying tickets to watch their team lose all the time. Start winning again and you'll sell more tickets. This whole deal is a mess and I hope it fails.
For anyone that doesn't understand the amount of money we're talking here, it's $100,000,000 to $126,000,000 a year, every year, for 40 years that we're voting on giving to these organizations owned by very, very rich people.
Think about that.
Sadly... it feels inevitable and I'm sorry for all the small businesses that are going to be hurt because of it. In case you care, here's a list of some of them:
(From the Kansas City Star) Green Dirt on Oak, a forthcoming farm-to-table restaurant at 1601 Oak St. The Pairing, a wine bar and grocery store at 1615 Oak St. Chartreuse Saloon, a Western-themed cocktail bar at 1627 Oak St. Kobi Q, a Korean barbecue restaurant at 1531 Grand Blvd. Mama Ramen, a ramen restaurant and bubble tea shop at 1513 Grand Blvd. (downstairs) PokeSan, a poke and dumplings restaurant at 1513 Grand Blvd. (upstairs) Prime, a bar and restaurant at 1501 Grand Blvd. Suzy’s Deli at 1533 Grand Blvd. SHOPPING KC Kush, a cannabis products store at 1620 Locust St. The Mercy Seat, a tattoo parlor at 210 E. 16th St. The Supply Truck, a tattoo parlor at 1529 Grand Blvd. Salon on Grand, a hair salon at 1537 Grand Blvd. KC Conjure & Botania, a candle shop and apothecary at 1620 Locust St #400. Royal Master Cleaners, a dry cleaning service at 1505 Grand Blvd. The Cigar Box, a bar at 1519 Grand Blvd. OTHER LOCATIONS The Harlow, a wedding and event venue at 1525 Grand Blvd. The Bear Champ mural by local street art group SpraySeeMO near 1600 Locust St. Resurrection Downtown, a United Methodist church at 1601 Grand Blvd. U-Haul Moving & Storage of Power & Light and U-Haul Truck Rental at 1520 Locust St. The offices of businesses including Amgraf, AgSwag, Lexitas Legal, O’Neill Events & Marketing, Renaissance Infrastructure Consulting, Risa McKinney Photo, the Dojo on Oak and Steadfast Security."

This post is the I shared on here a few days back that had been over 4,000 times. It's full of complete fabrications, yet people are sharing it. Sad to see honestly.

[Highlander]

Royals owner, John Sherman, is worth more than a billion dollars and is the founder and CEO of an energy company that merged with another in 2013 to become one of the biggest in North America. The stadium complex the Royals want to build will cost around $2 billion, but it includes things like a hotel, a conference center and various entertainment venues. So it’s not just a park Sherman wants KC residents to foot the bill for, it’s also businesses that will continue to pad his bank account far into the future. Sherman clearly figures that, hey, what red-blooded baseball-loving American wouldn’t want to pay for a billionaire’s further enrichment?
The Berkeley Economic Review says that the belief that stadiums will generate more revenue than communities put into them is unfounded. “The average stadium generates $145 million per year, but none of this revenue goes back into the community. As such, the prevalent idea among team owners of ‘socializing the costs and privatizing the profits’ is harmful and unfair to people who are forced to pay for a stadium that will not help them.”

That's a lot text.

A couple of things.

First: You simply cannot quantify the impact of pro sports team on a metro. The data simply does not exist to do so. And there are way too many other variables impacting metros to single out the results that attributable a sports team. All the "expert" opinions are worth very little. You probably can, however, attempt to quantify the impact of a stadium on its surrounding environs. You will most likely be mostly wrong but will get a few things right.

Second: People like pro sports. People like steak and will spend $60 bucks on a single entry. They want what they want despite the unquantifiable economic impact of thing they want.

Third: Sherman's status as a billionaire is large irrelevant. He doesn't have enough money to go it alone on a stadium although he could and has said he would contribute some portion of that wealth to the construction cost.

[KCPowercat]

One person's viewpoint on the sales tax. And this is not from an anti-stadium Facebook page, just a general KC page. Personally I really don't care if they put a stadium downtown or not. However IMO the best location would be the East Village. That land has more or less been set aside for a stadium. Now who knows when, or if, that area will be developed.
"LET'S HAVE A REAL DISCUSSION ABOUT THE ROYALS (and the Chiefs)...
The rumor is the Chiefs want the Royals to move so that they can take over the whole complex there and build an entertainment district (like a Chiefs version of the Legends EDIT: a permanent tailgating area). They should be releasing plans soon, so we will see. While I don't hate that idea, I do hate our taxpayer dollars going into funding it.
But more importantly, here's the biggest reason to VOTE NO against the tax joke to help the Royals build a new "stadium" on top of the Crossroads Arts District. Look at the picture below and pay close attention to this next part...
IT'S NOT REALLY ABOUT THE STADIUM!
Royals owner, John Sherman, is worth more than a billion dollars and is the founder and CEO of an energy company that merged with another in 2013 to become one of the biggest in North America. The stadium complex the Royals want to build will cost around $2 billion, but it includes things like a hotel, a conference center and various entertainment venues. So it’s not just a park Sherman wants KC residents to foot the bill for, it’s also businesses that will continue to pad his bank account far into the future. Sherman clearly figures that, hey, what red-blooded baseball-loving American wouldn’t want to pay for a billionaire’s further enrichment?
The Berkeley Economic Review says that the belief that stadiums will generate more revenue than communities put into them is unfounded. “The average stadium generates $145 million per year, but none of this revenue goes back into the community. As such, the prevalent idea among team owners of ‘socializing the costs and privatizing the profits’ is harmful and unfair to people who are forced to pay for a stadium that will not help them.”
John Sherman and the Royals have barely mentioned the hotels and conference center. Why? Because that's the real objective. THAT is where they'll make akk their money. The ballpark is only used for 81 homegames a year. But the hotel and conference center can be used year round, generating far more money for him than the Royals do. So taxpayers foot a huge portion of the bill for 40 years, he bulldozes blocks of historic buildings, sneaks in a hotel and convention center in the deal, adds some parks to make families smile, and hoped we won't notice or care because of the shiny new ballpark.
Don't fall for it. Let him build it somewhere else. A new stadium won't fix the team. It won't add more butts to the seats. People don't want to waste money buying tickets to watch their team lose all the time. Start winning again and you'll sell more tickets. This whole deal is a mess and I hope it fails.
For anyone that doesn't understand the amount of money we're talking here, it's $100,000,000 to $126,000,000 a year, every year, for 40 years that we're voting on giving to these organizations owned by very, very rich people.
Think about that.
Sadly... it feels inevitable and I'm sorry for all the small businesses that are going to be hurt because of it. In case you care, here's a list of some of them:
(From the Kansas City Star) Green Dirt on Oak, a forthcoming farm-to-table restaurant at 1601 Oak St. The Pairing, a wine bar and grocery store at 1615 Oak St. Chartreuse Saloon, a Western-themed cocktail bar at 1627 Oak St. Kobi Q, a Korean barbecue restaurant at 1531 Grand Blvd. Mama Ramen, a ramen restaurant and bubble tea shop at 1513 Grand Blvd. (downstairs) PokeSan, a poke and dumplings restaurant at 1513 Grand Blvd. (upstairs) Prime, a bar and restaurant at 1501 Grand Blvd. Suzy’s Deli at 1533 Grand Blvd. SHOPPING KC Kush, a cannabis products store at 1620 Locust St. The Mercy Seat, a tattoo parlor at 210 E. 16th St. The Supply Truck, a tattoo parlor at 1529 Grand Blvd. Salon on Grand, a hair salon at 1537 Grand Blvd. KC Conjure & Botania, a candle shop and apothecary at 1620 Locust St #400. Royal Master Cleaners, a dry cleaning service at 1505 Grand Blvd. The Cigar Box, a bar at 1519 Grand Blvd. OTHER LOCATIONS The Harlow, a wedding and event venue at 1525 Grand Blvd. The Bear Champ mural by local street art group SpraySeeMO near 1600 Locust St. Resurrection Downtown, a United Methodist church at 1601 Grand Blvd. U-Haul Moving & Storage of Power & Light and U-Haul Truck Rental at 1520 Locust St. The offices of businesses including Amgraf, AgSwag, Lexitas Legal, O’Neill Events & Marketing, Renaissance Infrastructure Consulting, Risa McKinney Photo, the Dojo on Oak and Steadfast Security."

This post is the I shared on here a few days back that had been over 4,000 times. It's full of complete fabrications, yet people are sharing it. Sad to see honestly.

Have you been on the internet?

[FlippantCitizen]

Oak is closed for sure on the renderings we've all seen. Truman is tunneled under the park cap.

While I know closing Oak is hated by some, it creates a really cool pedestrian experience. The bridge over Truman funnels to the upper concourse which is acts as an outfield plaza in between the buildings and stadium. My favorite angle of the stadium:

A cool pedestrian experience for ticketed fans whose origin is PNL and whose destination is a seat in the stadium, that's what you're referring to right? Because in my experience big superblocks are the one of the worst things as a pedestrian.

[DaveKCMO]

is KC Tennants powerful enough to kill this project?

Yes*

Only if they're able to turn out enough non-voters to offset the millions to be spent by the teams. This is quite different than a council campaign, which I believe is the only claim they've made about electoral success?

[KCPowercat]

yeah the biggest argument against super blocks (like closing Oak) is a horrible pedestrian experience. Oak in some form, even if it edges over a half block needs to be open on non-gamedays

[aknowledgeableperson]

Have you been on the internet?

Been snowbirding for the past 4+ weeks.

[KCPowercat]

It's still super disappointing in the leadership of KCMO (Platt, Q, etc) and JaxCo to make this backroom location "deal" with the Royals when the Royals were claiming to be so open with their fans and the taxpayers and all they knew it was EV, based on their own site as of a week ago. A few random rumors came out about this site but the general public wasn't very aware that this site was a real possibility. Didn't involve the neighborhood association which is well organized. Typical but disappointing.

[aknowledgeableperson]

is KC Tennants powerful enough to kill this project?

Yes*

Only if they're able to turn out enough non-voters to offset the millions to be spent by the teams. This is quite different than a council campaign, which I believe is the only claim they've made about electoral success?

There is also a large anti-tax sentiment out there. Will be an interesting campaign until April.

[DaveKCMO]

Yes*

Only if they're able to turn out enough non-voters to offset the millions to be spent by the teams. This is quite different than a council campaign, which I believe is the only claim they've made about electoral success?

There is also a large anti-tax sentiment out there. Will be an interesting campaign until April.

True, although the November use tax failure was a new tax and was not well understood by anyone.

[DColeKC]

Oak is closed for sure on the renderings we've all seen. Truman is tunneled under the park cap.

While I know closing Oak is hated by some, it creates a really cool pedestrian experience. The bridge over Truman funnels to the upper concourse which is acts as an outfield plaza in between the buildings and stadium. My favorite angle of the stadium:

A cool pedestrian experience for ticketed fans whose origin is PNL and whose destination is a seat in the stadium, that's what you're referring to right? Because in my experience big superblocks are the one of the worst things as a pedestrian.

Well, I'm trying to be clear that these are my opinions as to not hurt feelings but.... I think it makes for a fucking fantastic experience for people who will go to the games and enjoy downtown. The main entrance to the stadium is at ground level on the south side along Grand. There are multiple points of entry at ground level and nice, wide sidewalks too.

I also enjoy having a way to cross traffic safely that doesn't requiring shutting down streets, so there's that.

[DColeKC]

It's still super disappointing in the leadership of KCMO (Platt, Q, etc) and JaxCo to make this backroom location "deal" with the Royals when the Royals were claiming to be so open with their fans and the taxpayers and all they knew it was EV, based on their own site as of a week ago. A few random rumors came out about this site but the general public wasn't very aware that this site was a real possibility. Didn't involve the neighborhood association which is well organized. Typical but disappointing.

There's so much more to how this all went down and I'm not making excuses for The Royals. One day, I've private message those who are interested and explain what I was privy to but that'll be after the shovel hits the dirt. It wasn't nefarious, it was just unorganized.

East Village is out, it's not the backup plan. If we want downtown baseball, East Crossroads is the only option. Maybe they'll say that when they start up their campaign.

[beautyfromashes]

You’d have to think the teams will release details of the plan before the vote. If they don’t and lose the vote it’ll be their own fault. To me, transparency is an issue because we’ve had problems with stadium leases in the past where teams threatened to leave due to obscure language. The best way to button down a legal contract is to have more people look at and question it.