Downtown Baseball Stadium

[KCPowercat]

Dcole what you are giving out is the marketing points, people want more hard details than that on financing and these other points. It's not hard to see they is being asked not is it unreasonable. We haven't even seen the true CBA

[DColeKC]

I understand the desire to know every detail but that's completed unrealistic. How are they supposed to tell us about the cap when that's a separate project? Why should they spend time and resources coming up with traffic plans before they even know if they're doing this thing?

You're never going to get the level of detail to make you happy. I've seen too many public/private partnerships to know this. We're not voting on the design of the stadium. We're not voting on what the village will contain or if Crown Vision will make it back into the stadium. We are voting on if we want to extend the 3/8th sales tax and if we want the stadium in this location. That's step one. If you don't feel like you have enough information to make a yes vote, vote no. Just understand what that could mean and be ready to deal with the consequences.

I've never seen a stadium go to a public vote without even the cost of the stadium known before or in the Chiefs case, I've literally never seen a city vote for a stadium with literally zero released plans or drawings. It's completely freaking insane. You are acting like these are tiny details like the color of the bathroom tile, no, we are literally talking about literally 100s and 100s of millions of public dollars not being accounted for.

They’ve said 350m will be used for the construction of the stadium. So if the stadium costs 5b, who cares if they’re paying for anything over 350m?

I’m sure we will see more details soon. In New York, tax payers are spending 850m for the news 1.3b Bills stadium and they didn’t even get to vote.

[DColeKC]

DColeKC, I want to be clear when asking this that I'm not taking a side or assuming any bad faith on the part of you or anyone else. I don't know how this aspect of development works. I understand that the developers will try to negotiate a purchase price with the property owners and may need to go the eminent domain route to acquire the properties.

What assistance, if any, will be provided to the business or residential tenants in the affected properties? Let's say I rent a space for my flower shop in a building that's going to be demolished. Do I get any sort of assistance in finding or leasing another nearby storefront? Preference in leasing a space in the replacement building if I would like to? Any help with moving? Or is it just, well, best of luck to you, your lease ends in six months (or whenever), please be out of this space by then as the demo crews start the day after.

If you would rather speak in generalities about how these situations play out to avoid discussing any specifics to this project that you aren't in a position to disclose, that's fine. I'm just wondering if there's any difference between an apartment renter being expected to just find another place to live and a business owner expected to find a new store for their business in terms of support to ease that transition.

I’m not a legal expert by any means but in my past experience with public private partnerships and land acquisitions. It’s all about the property owners and not much about the tenants. Almost all leases have sold clause in there about what happens if the landlord decides to sell the property and it’s essentially a safe out for the landlord. There usually is no requirement for the landlord to help a tenant with relocation in the event of a sell. I’m sure some landlords do commit to some kind of financial assistance as part of the hook to get people to lease.

Having to use eminent domain is rare but even at that point, the offer has to be market rate and fare. The process goes extremely quick if you’ve got the city on your side as they have tools to pretty much avoid the courts.

Bottom line is helping businesses relocate isn’t required and would simply be an above and beyond gesture of help by either the landlord or Royals. Matt Abbot is in a great position to help his tenants as he has other available properties in the area.

[KCPowercat]

As one who has been through these wars to get votes passed (tmo, pnl, airport, last stadium vote, street at to name a few), dismissing concerns and saying what you see in a one pager is good enough for you to vote yes is a very arrogant and losing formula.

Yes helping tenants relocate isn't required. It's also very stupid of the royals if they don't try and help. Like you all said it's not very many right?

[Midtownkid]

https://deadspin.com/kansas-city-royals ... 1851261353

This is gaining National attention.

[bricknose]

I've never seen a stadium go to a public vote without even the cost of the stadium known before or in the Chiefs case, I've literally never seen a city vote for a stadium with literally zero released plans or drawings. It's completely freaking insane. You are acting like these are tiny details like the color of the bathroom tile, no, we are literally talking about literally 100s and 100s of millions of public dollars not being accounted for.

Why does the specific cost of the stadium matter? The taxpayers aren’t on the hook to pay for the stadium, no matter the price. They’re on the hook for a 3/8 percent sales tax. It sounds like that money won’t come close to covering the price of a stadium, but that doesn’t matter. Private funds will cover the remainder.

Any number you got wouldn’t be accurate by the time the stadium construction is underway, anyway.

[taxi]

Matt Abbot is in a great position to help HIMSELF as he has other available properties in the area.

Most owners will come out ahead, especially if they have good legal representation. Most business owners will get fucked. I have watched this happen time and again and have sold land under threat of eminent domain and it is one of the few things that I know about.

I also know what a historic building is and it is blatantly false and irresponsible to say no historic buildings will be demolished in this process. I building does not have to be on the National Register of Historic Places to be historic and have the unique value and importance that goes with that.

I'm disgusted by comments that it doesn't matter because none of those businesses will be there in ten years anyway and that development is moving too slow in the east Crossroads. Too slow for whom? Organic development is slow by nature. Big corporate development is soulless and void of creativity. It is the exact opposite of the Crossroads.

[bricknose]

Dcole what you are giving out is the marketing points, people want more hard details than that on financing and these other points. It's not hard to see they is being asked not is it unreasonable. We haven't even seen the true CBA

Although it would be nice to know more details, why is it necessary? The choice seems simple: are you willing to extend the existing 3/8 percent sales tax another 40 years? If you do, there will probably be a stadium at Crossroads which may include a South Loop cap extension, a hotel, apartments, and some mixed development.

This isn’t design by committee where everyone needs to weigh in on every detail. It’s cool to discuss the ups and downs of details, but it sounds like people are hinging their vote on minute specifics. Knowing where the stadium is going to be and what other goodies might come with it is fair to ask, so you’re sure that the 3/8 percent sales tax isn’t being blown on blow, but that’s about all that reasonable to demand, IMO. Or at the very least, not having that curiosity scratched doesn’t seem like a good reason to vote No.

[bricknose]

https://deadspin.com/kansas-city-royals ... 1851261353

This is gaining National attention.

That spin is so hard, you could connect it to a generator and have infinite free energy.

Edit:

It’s more “fuck billionaires” rhetoric. Maybe I’m naive, but if billionaires didn’t do shit, I don’t think we’d have a lot of the cool big projects we see happen. If a billionaire wants tax aid and it’s put up for a democratic vote, there is literally nothing to complain about. Vote yes if you want to support the proposal and are willing to pay. Vote no if you are not. If a billionaire just used their cash to force their will, it would be actually less democratic and more trampling on common folk, so the sentiment is just backward.

[TheBigChuckbowski]

I've never seen a stadium go to a public vote without even the cost of the stadium known before or in the Chiefs case, I've literally never seen a city vote for a stadium with literally zero released plans or drawings. It's completely freaking insane. You are acting like these are tiny details like the color of the bathroom tile, no, we are literally talking about literally 100s and 100s of millions of public dollars not being accounted for.

Why does the specific cost of the stadium matter? The taxpayers aren’t on the hook to pay for the stadium, no matter the price. They’re on the hook for a 3/8 percent sales tax. It sounds like that money won’t come close to covering the price of a stadium, but that doesn’t matter. Private funds will cover the remainder.

Any number you got wouldn’t be accurate by the time the stadium construction is underway, anyway.

It matters in the sense that we don't actually know what's a part of the stadium and what isn't. What I mean is that there's the stadium, then there's the 670 cap, then there's the pedestrian bridge over the 670 cap, then there's the "village", then there's the beautification and improvement of the infrastructure around the stadium. Is all of this included in the 3/8 cent sales tax + Royals investment? Is only the stadium included? At this point, we have no idea. If everything above and beyond the stadium is going to need further investment from taxpayers or is going to be a wait and see to try and raise more private capital then we need to know that. There's been talk about the city pitching in so where's that money coming from? At this point, we don't actually know what's being built or when. Not to mention, we have no idea what the Chiefs are going to do with Arrowhead, either.

If all we get is a scaled down baseball stadium, destruction of the downtown grid, destruction of Crossroads businesses, demolition of Kauffman Stadium, some minor improvements to Arrowhead and none of that extra stuff then that seems like a pretty terrible deal for taxpayers and the Crossroads.

[bricknose]

It matters in the sense that we don't actually know what's a part of the stadium and what isn't. What I mean is that there's the stadium, then there's the 670 cap, then there's the pedestrian bridge over the 670 cap, then there's the "village", then there's the beautification and improvement of the infrastructure around the stadium. Is all of this included in the 3/8 cent sales tax + Royals investment? Is only the stadium included? At this point, we have no idea. If everything above and beyond the stadium is going to need further investment from taxpayers or is going to be a wait and see to try and raise more private capital then we need to know that. There's been talk about the city pitching in so where's that money coming from? At this point, we don't actually know what's being built or when. Not to mention, we have no idea what the Chiefs are going to do with Arrowhead, either.

If all we get is a scaled down baseball stadium, destruction of the downtown grid, destruction of Crossroads businesses, demolition of Kauffman Stadium, some minor improvements to Arrowhead and none of that extra stuff then that seems like a pretty terrible deal for taxpayers and the Crossroads.

You’re not voting on the design. You’re voting on whether or not a stadium gets built. They hire experts to design it.

[bricknose]

Strictly speaking, they could scrap whatever promise they made and just put in the most bare-bones astroturf field where all attendees bring lawn chairs to sit and squint, unable to see. But do you want the shitty field to be in downtown or somewhere else?
Edit:
Personally, I’d still vote Yes because at least it brings tens of thousand of people downtown. That’s good for downtown businesses and a sense of lively activity.

[KCPowercat]

Dcole what you are giving out is the marketing points, people want more hard details than that on financing and these other points. It's not hard to see they is being asked not is it unreasonable. We haven't even seen the true CBA

Although it would be nice to know more details, why is it necessary? The choice seems simple: are you willing to extend the existing 3/8 percent sales tax another 40 years? If you do, there will probably be a stadium at Crossroads which may include a South Loop cap extension, a hotel, apartments, and some mixed development.

This isn’t design by committee where everyone needs to weigh in on every detail. It’s cool to discuss the ups and downs of details, but it sounds like people are hinging their vote on minute specifics. Knowing where the stadium is going to be and what other goodies might come with it is fair to ask, so you’re sure that the 3/8 percent sales tax isn’t being blown on blow, but that’s about all that reasonable to demand, IMO. Or at the very least, not having that curiosity scratched doesn’t seem like a good reason to vote No.

Seeing the total funding package, CBA, and signed agreements on what the county is responsible for in this project and ongoing is not minor details. It's things an informed voter wants to see and deserves to see. It's laughable to not expect the Royals and/or county to provide this. Like someone said, this isn't bickering over the paint colors of the bathrooms.

Like chuck posted, what part of the pretty pictures are we actually getting in this package and who is responsible for implementing it all?

[DColeKC]

Matt Abbot is in a great position to help HIMSELF as he has other available properties in the area.

Most owners will come out ahead, especially if they have good legal representation. Most business owners will get fucked. I have watched this happen time and again and have sold land under threat of eminent domain and it is one of the few things that I know about.

I also know what a historic building is and it is blatantly false and irresponsible to say no historic buildings will be demolished in this process. I building does not have to be on the National Register of Historic Places to be historic and have the unique value and importance that goes with that.

I'm disgusted by comments that it doesn't matter because none of those businesses will be there in ten years anyway and that development is moving too slow in the east Crossroads. Too slow for whom? Organic development is slow by nature. Big corporate development is soulless and void of creativity. It is the exact opposite of the Crossroads.

Too slow for my personal tastes. Too slow for what I think we should be achieving as a city. Who cares that you think is "disgusting", good on you for wanting to hold up generational progress so a few businesses can squeeze in a few more years before moving or closing. I get to vote too and these are my personal opinions. The FACT is there are no historical buildings in the area, I'm sorry that your bar is so low for something to be historical, simply being there for "x" amount years counts for you. It doesn't for me.

We get it, you don't like how things work in this country. Classic story. This stadium won't ruin the crossroads. It won't ruin the organic development and it will still provide a ton of opportunity for small businesses to thrive.

[KCPowercat]

Matt Abbot is in a great position to help HIMSELF as he has other available properties in the area.

Most owners will come out ahead, especially if they have good legal representation. Most business owners will get fucked. I have watched this happen time and again and have sold land under threat of eminent domain and it is one of the few things that I know about.

I also know what a historic building is and it is blatantly false and irresponsible to say no historic buildings will be demolished in this process. I building does not have to be on the National Register of Historic Places to be historic and have the unique value and importance that goes with that.

I'm disgusted by comments that it doesn't matter because none of those businesses will be there in ten years anyway and that development is moving too slow in the east Crossroads. Too slow for whom? Organic development is slow by nature. Big corporate development is soulless and void of creativity. It is the exact opposite of the Crossroads.

Too slow for my personal tastes. Too slow for what I think we should be achieving as a city. Who cares that you think is "disgusting", good on you for wanting to hold up generational progress so a few businesses can squeeze in a few more years before moving or closing. I get to vote too and these are my personal opinions. The FACT is there are no historical buildings in the area, I'm sorry that your bar is so low for something to be historical, simply being there for "x" amount years counts for you. It doesn't for me.

We get it, you don't like how things work in this country. Classic story. This stadium won't ruin the crossroads. It won't ruin the organic development and it will still provide a ton of opportunity for small businesses to thrive.

You are a big fan of oversimplifying people's concerns and stating opinions as FACT. if we are going to get this passed, that needs to stop immediately, you are just hurting the yes vote. Again this is from someone who has fought for many of a yes vote on many projects that weren't immediately popular. Including the very area you hold so dear now.

[DColeKC]

https://deadspin.com/kansas-city-royals ... 1851261353

This is gaining National attention.

Oh, the highly respected and full of integrity "deadspin". Bow down to their journalistic prowess.

Same shit publication that tried to ruin a little boys life along with his families for wearing "blackface" to a Chiefs game, only to find out he's native and of course, wouldn't back down for weeks once they were called out. Hopefully the lawsuit they're about to lose ends their reign of crap.

[DColeKC]

Most owners will come out ahead, especially if they have good legal representation. Most business owners will get fucked. I have watched this happen time and again and have sold land under threat of eminent domain and it is one of the few things that I know about.

I also know what a historic building is and it is blatantly false and irresponsible to say no historic buildings will be demolished in this process. I building does not have to be on the National Register of Historic Places to be historic and have the unique value and importance that goes with that.

I'm disgusted by comments that it doesn't matter because none of those businesses will be there in ten years anyway and that development is moving too slow in the east Crossroads. Too slow for whom? Organic development is slow by nature. Big corporate development is soulless and void of creativity. It is the exact opposite of the Crossroads.

Too slow for my personal tastes. Too slow for what I think we should be achieving as a city. Who cares that you think is "disgusting", good on you for wanting to hold up generational progress so a few businesses can squeeze in a few more years before moving or closing. I get to vote too and these are my personal opinions. The FACT is there are no historical buildings in the area, I'm sorry that your bar is so low for something to be historical, simply being there for "x" amount years counts for you. It doesn't for me.

We get it, you don't like how things work in this country. Classic story. This stadium won't ruin the crossroads. It won't ruin the organic development and it will still provide a ton of opportunity for small businesses to thrive.

You are a big fan of oversimplifying people's concerns and stating opinions as FACT. if we are going to get this passed, that needs to stop immediately, you are just hurting the yes vote.

No, I'm a big fan of stating what I believe in. The gloves are off and I'm over the tip toeing around reality. There's not a single person in here who is going to switch their vote based off what I say as a private citizen. The NO's had their minds made up before this site was announced. We have months of evidence of this.

Until someone can show me proof that a building within the footprint is "historical", I'm going to keep my opinion that there are no historical structures impacted.

For the record, how I talk in here, a development forum where I'd expect a slightly better understanding of these things and how I speak in public or on social media are far different. I know how to lobby for what I want but I'm only enjoying the debate in here, not trying to sway votes. This is an outlet for me, not a platform.

[KCPowercat]

You don't know how many are lurking in here looking for info. I've said my piece, feel free to continue dismissing concerns of the other side of the vote, you do it at the peril of the vote.

At least you didn't say your opinion is FACT for one post!

[bricknose]

Seeing the total funding package, CBA, and signed agreements on what the county is responsible for in this project and ongoing is not minor details. It's things an informed voter wants to see and deserves to see. It's laughable to not expect the Royals and/or county to provide this. Like someone said, this isn't bickering over the paint colors of the bathrooms.

Like chuck posted, what part of the pretty pictures are we actually getting in this package and who is responsible for implementing it all?

Don’t get me wrong - I’d like to know more details, too, but it wouldn’t affect my Yes vote, because I want a downtown stadium, no matter where, and I trust that they’re competent enough not to do something colossally stupid. They do want to make money by having people attend, so I assume they’ll at least try to make it not suck.

But the vote itself isn’t on the specifics, at least not in my opinion. It’s generically on whether the stadium should be built (downtown) and the Arrowhead should be renovated. A No vote risks one or both teams leaving the county or the city.

I don’t think it’s bad to ask questions, but I think what is a pretty simple question on the vote is getting bogged down with details.

For example, imagine if the yes/no vote on Missouri having legal weed was getting bogged down with a debate over local vs corporate growers and how much kush is legal to smoke before being considered intoxicated while driving.

[DColeKC]

You don't know how many are lurking in here looking for info. I've said my piece, feel free to continue dismissing concerns of the other side of the vote, you do it at the peril of the vote.

At least you didn't say your opinion is FACT for one post!

I'll continue to express my opinion, even if it's not popular and not said in a way that makes everyone happy.

I'm not dismissing concerns, I'm responding to them and since I don't run PR for the Royals, I'm not bull shitting or dancing around the reality of this. We have a once in a lifetime opportunity in front us that *****in my opinion***** is a generational chance to positively impact our downtown and the city of Kansas City for decades to come. Something my kids will enjoy and have civic pride over after I'm gone. Something that will help usher in the next generation of baseball fans and re-energize the current fanbase. It's not all sunshine and rainbows, buildings (not historical) will come down, some businesses will need to move, others will possibly never open again. This isn't the old Oprah show were everyone has a prize under their seats, some people have nothing under the seat, others have a lump of coal but most, by a large margin will be happy with what's under their seat and that's how these things should be decided. *****in my opinion******