Downtown Baseball Stadium

[beautyfromashes]

Again, I don’t see a $billion “village” anywhere in that plan…unless it’s plated in gold. Someone circle it on the rendering for me.

[DColeKC]

Again, I don’t see a $billion “village” anywhere in that plan…unless it’s plated in gold. Someone circle it on the rendering for me.

Three Light is a half acre project and cost $150 million. The village portion of this baseball stadium project is 3 acres and consists of multiple hi-rise buildings. Simple math puts that at $900 million if the entire plot is filled with buildings. That's not counting land acquisition and I'm not sure if the land acquisition for the stadium site that will be bought by the Royals and given to the county counts in that billion.

[beautyfromashes]

Here’s what I do like about the current proposal and what I need to vote yes:
- Renderings don’t show any parking lots or stand-alone garages.
- compact stadium that attempts to fit into the neighborhood.
-completion of 670 park as part of proposal.
-removal of KC Star press building though I always thought there could be an alternative use.
-Close to streetcar line.

What I need:
- Messaging from the Royals showing care for displaced businesses, sufficient purchase price for buildings and attempts to relocate in surrounding areas.
- Plan to keep Oak open in some form.
- Commitment to keep the 670 park public and always open to citizens.
- While not a deal killer, I’d prefer removal of the pedestrian bridge in order to keep people walking on the street or use of Buck Bridge truces to show history of the city. Would also like orientation facing DT proper.
- Financial plans showing where funds will be spent before the election with legal commitment from the Royals to spend funds in a timely number of years. No “2nd phase”, “3rd Phase” that never happens.
- commitment from the city to immediately sell off EV property that they own in small chunks and push for development of that area. Push should be for buildings with height.
- all parking structures are beneath other buildings and have streetfront activation.

[dnweava]

You know how to combat that? Share the details of the plans and the financing. Silence brings this on and the royals have nobody to blame but themselves

They have! The tax raises $350 million dollars and they’ve committed to spending over a billion in private money. And, they’ve committed to putting the profit from the village back into the team.

This guys viral post is full of nonsense.

Sure, the royals share some blame but who is to blame for a society void of ability to do some damn fact checking before sharing just anything they see from a nobody on social media?

We don’t need finalized details before voting for a tax. More information yes, but we are not at “final plan” stage or even close.

This is a load of crap and you know it. They haven't shared any real details. It's all vague which is why I'd vote no as of today. I'm also a no vote as long as Oak is closed.

1) The taxes will raise far more money than that

2) They have not announced the stadium price. We have zero idea the final cost of the royals stadium or Arrowhead renovations will be

3) we don't know what percentage either team will be paying for or how much they project the costs to be above what the tax revenue will be

4) we don't know what streets are closing or how they plan on keeping their traffic from blocking the streetcar when oak and grand end up both closed. . They probably just expect tax payers to deal with traffic control, more hidden costs for us tax payere.

5) we have no idea how much the grand and 18th Street upgrades will be or who is paying for it

6) we have no idea how much parking they are adding or if they are expecting taxpayers to build any garages (I guarantee tax payers end up paying for at least 1 new garage)

7) we have no idea what their plan is if there are any hold outs as they clearly didn't speak with the owners before announcing the plan

we have no idea who is paying for the highway cap expansion or when it will be completed (would be nice to be done for the world cup)

9) we have no idea what "community benefits" will be.

10) there is no damn way the "village" will be good for tax payers. They will probably end up with huge tax breaks and probably even get tax payer money for their parking that's probably only been talked about behind closed doors. I also don't think those profits will be used to field a competitive team. We don't even know what MLBs TV deals will look like in 5 years as we move into a post-cable world. MLB wealth divide could keep growing or they may move closer to a NFL model over the life of this stadium, nobody knows.

[Belvidere]

You know how to combat that? Share the details of the plans and the financing. Silence brings this on and the royals have nobody to blame but themselves

They have! The tax raises $350 million dollars and they’ve committed to spending over a billion in private money. And, they’ve committed to putting the profit from the village back into the team.

This guys viral post is full of nonsense.

Sure, the royals share some blame but who is to blame for a society void of ability to do some damn fact checking before sharing just anything they see from a nobody on social media?

We don’t need finalized details before voting for a tax. More information yes, but we are not at “final plan” stage or even close.

This is a load of crap and you know it. They haven't shared any real details. It's all vague which is why I'd vote no as of today. I'm also a no vote as long as Oak is closed.

1) The taxes will raise far more money than that

2) They have not announced the stadium price. We have zero idea the final cost of the royals stadium or Arrowhead renovations will be

3) we don't know what percentage either team will be paying for or how much they project the costs to be above what the tax revenue will be

4) we don't know what streets are closing or how they plan on keeping their traffic from blocking the streetcar when oak and grand end up both closed. . They probably just expect tax payers to deal with traffic control, more hidden costs for us tax payere.

5) we have no idea how much the grand and 18th Street upgrades will be or who is paying for it

6) we have no idea how much parking they are adding or if they are expecting taxpayers to build any garages (I guarantee tax payers end up paying for at least 1 new garage)

7) we have no idea what their plan is if there are any hold outs as they clearly didn't speak with the owners before announcing the plan

we have no idea who is paying for the highway cap expansion or when it will be completed (would be nice to be done for the world cup)

9) we have no idea what "community benefits" will be.

10) there is no damn way the "village" will be good for tax payers. They will probably end up with huge tax breaks and probably even get tax payer money for their parking that's probably only been talked about behind closed doors. I also don't think those profits will be used to field a competitive team. We don't even know what MLBs TV deals will look like in 5 years as we move into a post-cable world. MLB wealth divide could keep growing or they may move closer to a NFL model over the life of this stadium, nobody knows.

Agreed. The problem is, you cannot make an economic argument for these. As far as I know, there isn't a single stadium we can point to like this one, that has benefited a city economically (although I'm sure individuals have benefited). How do we guarantee the Royals won't eventually leave?

The only way would we would know the impact is if we commission a third party, independent economic analysis, which we won't get. For example, how would a stadium hurt or help the debt we are carrying for P&L? What are the risks, such as another pandemic?

Labor may get a decent CBA. Neighborhoods will have to fight. How could it be enforced? Possible, but hard.

You can say that baseball is something you'd like to have downtown as an amenity you willing to be on the hook for, for decades. That's not bad, it's honest.

Seen another way, we could use a tax like this one for robust public transit, which might actually spur investment regionally. We are in a housing crisis. Corporations are buying up homes at a good clip and KC is not building much. Sidewalks and streets are in disrepair. Some neighborhoods have serious flooding problems. Etc.

J C Bradbury is a good source for data on sports and film incentives. He does not have positive results to show.

Even the South Loop cap could be fraught if they don't do it right.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... ckout=true

I have heard one persuasive argument. This vote gives us a relatively weak baseball franchise tied to a first-class football team. Separated, the Chiefs could ask for more, far more than Jackson County can handle.

It's hard to escape the relative poverty of this county and city with the expectations. The average person may not be able to afford to go to many games or even to watch them on television. What are we doing?

[Highlander]

It's hard to escape the relative poverty of this county and city with the expectations. The average person may not be able to afford to go to many games or even to watch them on television. What are we doing?

Baseball is far more affordable than football for the average person. This is why I struggle with the "the let the Royals move if they want" sentiment. Not that they are necessarily going to leave town but most families can afford to attend a few baseball games per year while football is out of reach except for those that have more money or are dedicated enough to sacrifice for football.

[DColeKC]

You know how to combat that? Share the details of the plans and the financing. Silence brings this on and the royals have nobody to blame but themselves

They have! The tax raises $350 million dollars and they’ve committed to spending over a billion in private money. And, they’ve committed to putting the profit from the village back into the team.

This guys viral post is full of nonsense.

Sure, the royals share some blame but who is to blame for a society void of ability to do some damn fact checking before sharing just anything they see from a nobody on social media?

We don’t need finalized details before voting for a tax. More information yes, but we are not at “final plan” stage or even close.

This is a load of crap and you know it. They haven't shared any real details. It's all vague which is why I'd vote no as of today. I'm also a no vote as long as Oak is closed.

1) The taxes will raise far more money than that

2) They have not announced the stadium price. We have zero idea the final cost of the royals stadium or Arrowhead renovations will be

3) we don't know what percentage either team will be paying for or how much they project the costs to be above what the tax revenue will be

4) we don't know what streets are closing or how they plan on keeping their traffic from blocking the streetcar when oak and grand end up both closed. . They probably just expect tax payers to deal with traffic control, more hidden costs for us tax payere.

5) we have no idea how much the grand and 18th Street upgrades will be or who is paying for it

6) we have no idea how much parking they are adding or if they are expecting taxpayers to build any garages (I guarantee tax payers end up paying for at least 1 new garage)

7) we have no idea what their plan is if there are any hold outs as they clearly didn't speak with the owners before announcing the plan

we have no idea who is paying for the highway cap expansion or when it will be completed (would be nice to be done for the world cup)

9) we have no idea what "community benefits" will be.

10) there is no damn way the "village" will be good for tax payers. They will probably end up with huge tax breaks and probably even get tax payer money for their parking that's probably only been talked about behind closed doors. I also don't think those profits will be used to field a competitive team. We don't even know what MLBs TV deals will look like in 5 years as we move into a post-cable world. MLB wealth divide could keep growing or they may move closer to a NFL model over the life of this stadium, nobody knows.

We all have access to the same public information. I'd encourage you to dig deeper.

1. No, the taxes will raise 350 million towards to construction of the stadium. Key Phrase... TOWARDS THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE STADIUM. The tax in 2022 raised about $38m with that being split between each team or facility I should say. The tax is also to help maintain the stadiums and pay the bills so to speak related to it operationally.

2. I just re-read the language and the Royals own statements say it's a 2 billion dollar project and they'll invest over 1 billion to cover a "major portion of the stadium and the entirety of the village". Working off the 1.1b it costs to build the newest MLB stadium in 2020, which has a massive retractable roof. I think it's safe to say this stadium is likely 800m or less. It's hard to give us an exact figure when that process takes months and months to come up with once a final design is settled on.

3. See above

4. From the Royals: An event traffic management plan will be developed for the ballpark to handle traffic and parking. This will help create a seamless parking experience, both on gamedays and for when games and events occur simultaneously downtown. An abundance of surface/structured parking will benefit attendees by providing easy access to the ballpark.

Peak traffic patterns out of the downtown area should counterflow any fans arriving at the new stadium. Those who are leaving the area should not hinder those entering, helping reduce traffic congestion.

Traffic will be managed more efficiently by dispersing fans between multiple parking lots and with various ways into and out of the Crossroads.

5. Seems like this is a detail we don't need at this point.

6. They're not adding any parking as it relates to the stadium.

7. They spoke to the owners, not the tenants. What's the plan on the hold outs? Over pay a bit, if that doesn't work, there are other tools available and no, it won't take very long.

8. The cap already has a plan on how it's getting paid for. It still needs more private financing or other sources to get over the hump. I'm not sure if the Royals would chip in but a baseball stadium being built would certainly draw attention and increase the likelihood of more donations rolling in.

9. From the Royals: We have agreed on a path that will provide more than $200 million in new economic benefits to the County by eliminating its obligation to pay stadium insurance premiums and park levy to the teams.

That's just the basics, there's far more community benefits.

10. This is a very negative take. Tell me why a 72 year old man that doesn't live a lavish lifestyle would want a few more million a year? Other MLB teams that have done this have in fact put the money back into the roster. The Atlanta Braves generate over 30 million a year via The Battery in which they put the profit back into the team.

[DColeKC]

They have! The tax raises $350 million dollars and they’ve committed to spending over a billion in private money. And, they’ve committed to putting the profit from the village back into the team.

This guys viral post is full of nonsense.

Sure, the royals share some blame but who is to blame for a society void of ability to do some damn fact checking before sharing just anything they see from a nobody on social media?

We don’t need finalized details before voting for a tax. More information yes, but we are not at “final plan” stage or even close.

This is a load of crap and you know it. They haven't shared any real details. It's all vague which is why I'd vote no as of today. I'm also a no vote as long as Oak is closed.

1) The taxes will raise far more money than that

2) They have not announced the stadium price. We have zero idea the final cost of the royals stadium or Arrowhead renovations will be

3) we don't know what percentage either team will be paying for or how much they project the costs to be above what the tax revenue will be

4) we don't know what streets are closing or how they plan on keeping their traffic from blocking the streetcar when oak and grand end up both closed. . They probably just expect tax payers to deal with traffic control, more hidden costs for us tax payere.

5) we have no idea how much the grand and 18th Street upgrades will be or who is paying for it

6) we have no idea how much parking they are adding or if they are expecting taxpayers to build any garages (I guarantee tax payers end up paying for at least 1 new garage)

7) we have no idea what their plan is if there are any hold outs as they clearly didn't speak with the owners before announcing the plan

we have no idea who is paying for the highway cap expansion or when it will be completed (would be nice to be done for the world cup)

9) we have no idea what "community benefits" will be.

10) there is no damn way the "village" will be good for tax payers. They will probably end up with huge tax breaks and probably even get tax payer money for their parking that's probably only been talked about behind closed doors. I also don't think those profits will be used to field a competitive team. We don't even know what MLBs TV deals will look like in 5 years as we move into a post-cable world. MLB wealth divide could keep growing or they may move closer to a NFL model over the life of this stadium, nobody knows.

Agreed. The problem is, you cannot make an economic argument for these. As far as I know, there isn't a single stadium we can point to like this one, that has benefited a city economically (although I'm sure individuals have benefited). How do we guarantee the Royals won't eventually leave?

The only way would we would know the impact is if we commission a third party, independent economic analysis, which we won't get. For example, how would a stadium hurt or help the debt we are carrying for P&L? What are the risks, such as another pandemic?

Labor may get a decent CBA. Neighborhoods will have to fight. How could it be enforced? Possible, but hard.

You can say that baseball is something you'd like to have downtown as an amenity you willing to be on the hook for, for decades. That's not bad, it's honest.

Seen another way, we could use a tax like this one for robust public transit, which might actually spur investment regionally. We are in a housing crisis. Corporations are buying up homes at a good clip and KC is not building much. Sidewalks and streets are in disrepair. Some neighborhoods have serious flooding problems. Etc.

J C Bradbury is a good source for data on sports and film incentives. He does not have positive results to show.

Even the South Loop cap could be fraught if they don't do it right.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... ckout=true

I have heard one persuasive argument. This vote gives us a relatively weak baseball franchise tied to a first-class football team. Separated, the Chiefs could ask for more, far more than Jackson County can handle.

It's hard to escape the relative poverty of this county and city with the expectations. The average person may not be able to afford to go to many games or even to watch them on television. What are we doing?

None of these studies that always conclude with, "tax payer financed stadiums don't make sense" consider the big picture. It's a complicated problem for sure and there are many factors that don't fit into a spreadsheet. There's also other tax revenues that are not directly tied to the project but certainly related.

Look at PNL for example. The cities yearly bond payments are around 25 million which was supposed to be covered 100% by the tax revenue generated directly from PNL sales and property taxes. The city has had to cover anywhere between 7 (most recent) and 17 million each year to cover the shortfalls. However, since PNL opened downtown residential numbers have increased substantially. PNL has played a major part in that and the earnings tax the city collect has gone up over 20m a year which more than covers the bond payments. Factor in the 5+ billion worth of investments made downtown since PNL was built and it's hard to argue that the cities portion hasn't been worth it. All this to say, the average citizen doesn't look at the big picture and those opposed to any kind of tax incentive financing don't care.

[Belvidere]

This is a load of crap and you know it. They haven't shared any real details. It's all vague which is why I'd vote no as of today. I'm also a no vote as long as Oak is closed.

1) The taxes will raise far more money than that

2) They have not announced the stadium price. We have zero idea the final cost of the royals stadium or Arrowhead renovations will be

3) we don't know what percentage either team will be paying for or how much they project the costs to be above what the tax revenue will be

4) we don't know what streets are closing or how they plan on keeping their traffic from blocking the streetcar when oak and grand end up both closed. . They probably just expect tax payers to deal with traffic control, more hidden costs for us tax payere.

5) we have no idea how much the grand and 18th Street upgrades will be or who is paying for it

6) we have no idea how much parking they are adding or if they are expecting taxpayers to build any garages (I guarantee tax payers end up paying for at least 1 new garage)

7) we have no idea what their plan is if there are any hold outs as they clearly didn't speak with the owners before announcing the plan

we have no idea who is paying for the highway cap expansion or when it will be completed (would be nice to be done for the world cup)

9) we have no idea what "community benefits" will be.

10) there is no damn way the "village" will be good for tax payers. They will probably end up with huge tax breaks and probably even get tax payer money for their parking that's probably only been talked about behind closed doors. I also don't think those profits will be used to field a competitive team. We don't even know what MLBs TV deals will look like in 5 years as we move into a post-cable world. MLB wealth divide could keep growing or they may move closer to a NFL model over the life of this stadium, nobody knows.

Agreed. The problem is, you cannot make an economic argument for these. As far as I know, there isn't a single stadium we can point to like this one, that has benefited a city economically (although I'm sure individuals have benefited). How do we guarantee the Royals won't eventually leave?

The only way would we would know the impact is if we commission a third party, independent economic analysis, which we won't get. For example, how would a stadium hurt or help the debt we are carrying for P&L? What are the risks, such as another pandemic?

Labor may get a decent CBA. Neighborhoods will have to fight. How could it be enforced? Possible, but hard.

You can say that baseball is something you'd like to have downtown as an amenity you willing to be on the hook for, for decades. That's not bad, it's honest.

Seen another way, we could use a tax like this one for robust public transit, which might actually spur investment regionally. We are in a housing crisis. Corporations are buying up homes at a good clip and KC is not building much. Sidewalks and streets are in disrepair. Some neighborhoods have serious flooding problems. Etc.

J C Bradbury is a good source for data on sports and film incentives. He does not have positive results to show.

Even the South Loop cap could be fraught if they don't do it right.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... ckout=true

I have heard one persuasive argument. This vote gives us a relatively weak baseball franchise tied to a first-class football team. Separated, the Chiefs could ask for more, far more than Jackson County can handle.

It's hard to escape the relative poverty of this county and city with the expectations. The average person may not be able to afford to go to many games or even to watch them on television. What are we doing?

None of these studies that always conclude with, "tax payer financed stadiums don't make sense" consider the big picture. It's a complicated problem for sure and there are many factors that don't fit into a spreadsheet. There's also other tax revenues that are not directly tied to the project but certainly related.

Look at PNL for example. The cities yearly bond payments are around 25 million which was supposed to be covered 100% by the tax revenue generated directly from PNL sales and property taxes. The city has had to cover anywhere between 7 (most recent) and 17 million each year to cover the shortfalls. However, since PNL opened downtown residential numbers have increased substantially. PNL has played a major part in that and the earnings tax the city collect has gone up over 20m a year which more than covers the bond payments. Factor in the 5+ billion worth of investments made downtown since PNL was built and it's hard to argue that the cities portion hasn't been worth it. All this to say, the average citizen doesn't look at the big picture and those opposed to any kind of tax incentive financing don't care.

Trying not to be argumentative and I am not against incentives. But Power and Light did not pan out as we thought it would, and a lot of people are skittish because of it. The Crossroads was far more organic in it's success and the people who built it are probably going to be forced out.

The average citizen, as you put it, deserves to understand this, especially considering in inequality in KC.

[DColeKC]

^ The Power & Light District has been a fantastic development for this city and downtown. What didn't pan out was the projections done by consultant company which was hired by the cities economic developer board.

Those failed projections changed the way the city handles these things. They learned.

Regardless, it's very hard to argue that's not worth 0.5% of the cities annual budget.

I agree there will be some collateral damage and if they can figure out how to minimize this while also properly helping those who are displaced, it makes it so much better.

EDIT: Comment about average citizen clarification. Of course they deserve to understand it, what I'm implying is they don't. It's too complicated. They see it as we invested a certain amount, if we don't get that exact amount back, it's a failure.

[GRID]

Honestly, I think 95% of the people that have jumped on the anti crossroads location would be against the ev location had it been chosen. They are just jumping on the anti crossroads bandwagon because it fits their agenda of voting no.

This vote is 100% going to depend on the chiefs, so they better come up with something that will be very attractive to voters. I have a feeling people are going to be very underwhelmed by what the chiefs plan on doing though.

Either way, KC people commenting on social media moslty sound like a bunch of rural rubes that are scared of anything urban and scared of change in general. Kind of embarrassing actually. The Royals renderings get mostly positive feedback on any posts that is not moslty kc people.

It's crazy how kc people can so quickly and collectively overrate the shit out of kc area stuff that most people outside of kc just don't get.

Kauffman is not a top 5 or even top ten stadium in MLB. I wouldput it in the high teens. And arrowhead is really showing its age too. The area around the stadiums might be the worst in all of professional sports venues.

[dnweava]

They have! The tax raises $350 million dollars and they’ve committed to spending over a billion in private money. And, they’ve committed to putting the profit from the village back into the team.

This guys viral post is full of nonsense.

Sure, the royals share some blame but who is to blame for a society void of ability to do some damn fact checking before sharing just anything they see from a nobody on social media?

We don’t need finalized details before voting for a tax. More information yes, but we are not at “final plan” stage or even close.

This is a load of crap and you know it. They haven't shared any real details. It's all vague which is why I'd vote no as of today. I'm also a no vote as long as Oak is closed.

1) The taxes will raise far more money than that

2) They have not announced the stadium price. We have zero idea the final cost of the royals stadium or Arrowhead renovations will be

3) we don't know what percentage either team will be paying for or how much they project the costs to be above what the tax revenue will be

4) we don't know what streets are closing or how they plan on keeping their traffic from blocking the streetcar when oak and grand end up both closed. . They probably just expect tax payers to deal with traffic control, more hidden costs for us tax payere.

5) we have no idea how much the grand and 18th Street upgrades will be or who is paying for it

6) we have no idea how much parking they are adding or if they are expecting taxpayers to build any garages (I guarantee tax payers end up paying for at least 1 new garage)

7) we have no idea what their plan is if there are any hold outs as they clearly didn't speak with the owners before announcing the plan

we have no idea who is paying for the highway cap expansion or when it will be completed (would be nice to be done for the world cup)

9) we have no idea what "community benefits" will be.

10) there is no damn way the "village" will be good for tax payers. They will probably end up with huge tax breaks and probably even get tax payer money for their parking that's probably only been talked about behind closed doors. I also don't think those profits will be used to field a competitive team. We don't even know what MLBs TV deals will look like in 5 years as we move into a post-cable world. MLB wealth divide could keep growing or they may move closer to a NFL model over the life of this stadium, nobody knows.

We all have access to the same public information. I'd encourage you to dig deeper.

1. No, the taxes will raise 350 million towards to construction of the stadium. Key Phrase... TOWARDS THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE STADIUM. The tax in 2022 raised about $38m with that being split between each team or facility I should say. The tax is also to help maintain the stadiums and pay the bills so to speak related to it operationally.

2. I just re-read the language and the Royals own statements say it's a 2 billion dollar project and they'll invest over 1 billion to cover a "major portion of the stadium and the entirety of the village". Working off the 1.1b it costs to build the newest MLB stadium in 2020, which has a massive retractable roof. I think it's safe to say this stadium is likely 800m or less. It's hard to give us an exact figure when that process takes months and months to come up with once a final design is settled on.

3. See above

4. From the Royals: An event traffic management plan will be developed for the ballpark to handle traffic and parking. This will help create a seamless parking experience, both on gamedays and for when games and events occur simultaneously downtown. An abundance of surface/structured parking will benefit attendees by providing easy access to the ballpark.

Peak traffic patterns out of the downtown area should counterflow any fans arriving at the new stadium. Those who are leaving the area should not hinder those entering, helping reduce traffic congestion.

Traffic will be managed more efficiently by dispersing fans between multiple parking lots and with various ways into and out of the Crossroads.

5. Seems like this is a detail we don't need at this point.

6. They're not adding any parking as it relates to the stadium.

7. They spoke to the owners, not the tenants. What's the plan on the hold outs? Over pay a bit, if that doesn't work, there are other tools available and no, it won't take very long.

8. The cap already has a plan on how it's getting paid for. It still needs more private financing or other sources to get over the hump. I'm not sure if the Royals would chip in but a baseball stadium being built would certainly draw attention and increase the likelihood of more donations rolling in.

9. From the Royals: We have agreed on a path that will provide more than $200 million in new economic benefits to the County by eliminating its obligation to pay stadium insurance premiums and park levy to the teams.

That's just the basics, there's far more community benefits.

10. This is a very negative take. Tell me why a 72 year old man that doesn't live a lavish lifestyle would want a few more million a year? Other MLB teams that have done this have in fact put the money back into the roster. The Atlanta Braves generate over 30 million a year via The Battery in which they put the profit back into the team.

1. You proved my point that the numbers don't add up. 40 years X $38m is $1.5B+ before expected economic growth is added in. $750+ million per team. Are they expecting interest rates to add $400 milliom to the cost?

2&3. Vague answer that requires you to completely guess. That's not good enough when this is already going in front of voters.

4. So yea, hidden costs to the taxpayer

5. Vague again, i.e. more hidden costs to the tax payer

6. LOL if you believe that.

7. They didn't

8. Then they need to tell us. All I'm hearing is more hidden costs to the tax payer.

9. Vague again....

10. You've never met a rich person before? They never have enough. And if he doesn't care about money explain the last few seasons rosters.

[DColeKC]

This is a load of crap and you know it. They haven't shared any real details. It's all vague which is why I'd vote no as of today. I'm also a no vote as long as Oak is closed.

1) The taxes will raise far more money than that

2) They have not announced the stadium price. We have zero idea the final cost of the royals stadium or Arrowhead renovations will be

3) we don't know what percentage either team will be paying for or how much they project the costs to be above what the tax revenue will be

4) we don't know what streets are closing or how they plan on keeping their traffic from blocking the streetcar when oak and grand end up both closed. . They probably just expect tax payers to deal with traffic control, more hidden costs for us tax payere.

5) we have no idea how much the grand and 18th Street upgrades will be or who is paying for it

6) we have no idea how much parking they are adding or if they are expecting taxpayers to build any garages (I guarantee tax payers end up paying for at least 1 new garage)

7) we have no idea what their plan is if there are any hold outs as they clearly didn't speak with the owners before announcing the plan

we have no idea who is paying for the highway cap expansion or when it will be completed (would be nice to be done for the world cup)

9) we have no idea what "community benefits" will be.

10) there is no damn way the "village" will be good for tax payers. They will probably end up with huge tax breaks and probably even get tax payer money for their parking that's probably only been talked about behind closed doors. I also don't think those profits will be used to field a competitive team. We don't even know what MLBs TV deals will look like in 5 years as we move into a post-cable world. MLB wealth divide could keep growing or they may move closer to a NFL model over the life of this stadium, nobody knows.

We all have access to the same public information. I'd encourage you to dig deeper.

1. No, the taxes will raise 350 million towards to construction of the stadium. Key Phrase... TOWARDS THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE STADIUM. The tax in 2022 raised about $38m with that being split between each team or facility I should say. The tax is also to help maintain the stadiums and pay the bills so to speak related to it operationally.

2. I just re-read the language and the Royals own statements say it's a 2 billion dollar project and they'll invest over 1 billion to cover a "major portion of the stadium and the entirety of the village". Working off the 1.1b it costs to build the newest MLB stadium in 2020, which has a massive retractable roof. I think it's safe to say this stadium is likely 800m or less. It's hard to give us an exact figure when that process takes months and months to come up with once a final design is settled on.

3. See above

4. From the Royals: An event traffic management plan will be developed for the ballpark to handle traffic and parking. This will help create a seamless parking experience, both on gamedays and for when games and events occur simultaneously downtown. An abundance of surface/structured parking will benefit attendees by providing easy access to the ballpark.

Peak traffic patterns out of the downtown area should counterflow any fans arriving at the new stadium. Those who are leaving the area should not hinder those entering, helping reduce traffic congestion.

Traffic will be managed more efficiently by dispersing fans between multiple parking lots and with various ways into and out of the Crossroads.

5. Seems like this is a detail we don't need at this point.

6. They're not adding any parking as it relates to the stadium.

7. They spoke to the owners, not the tenants. What's the plan on the hold outs? Over pay a bit, if that doesn't work, there are other tools available and no, it won't take very long.

8. The cap already has a plan on how it's getting paid for. It still needs more private financing or other sources to get over the hump. I'm not sure if the Royals would chip in but a baseball stadium being built would certainly draw attention and increase the likelihood of more donations rolling in.

9. From the Royals: We have agreed on a path that will provide more than $200 million in new economic benefits to the County by eliminating its obligation to pay stadium insurance premiums and park levy to the teams.

That's just the basics, there's far more community benefits.

10. This is a very negative take. Tell me why a 72 year old man that doesn't live a lavish lifestyle would want a few more million a year? Other MLB teams that have done this have in fact put the money back into the roster. The Atlanta Braves generate over 30 million a year via The Battery in which they put the profit back into the team.

1. You proved my point that the numbers don't add up. 40 years X $38m is $1.5B+ before expected economic growth is added in. $750+ million per team. Are they expecting interest rates to add $400 milliom to the cost?

2&3. Vague answer that requires you to completely guess. That's not good enough when this is already going in front of voters.

4. So yea, hidden costs to the taxpayer

5. Vague again, i.e. more hidden costs to the tax payer

6. LOL if you believe that.

7. They didn't

8. Then they need to tell us. All I'm hearing is more hidden costs to the tax payer.

9. Vague again....

10. You've never met a rich person before? They never have enough. And if he doesn't care about money explain the last few seasons rosters.

1. One more time: $350 million of the tax dollars will go to fund the construction of the stadium. That's not the maximize that the tax will raise over the course of the agreement. If this is like any other public/private partnership, there will be loans and $350 million dollars of the tax revenue will be committed to debt services over 30 years or more. So, half or more of the yearly taxes raised will go to paying the debt. The other half will help pay for other operational expenses. There's nothing nefarious happening here but sure, let's have them roll out the complicated proforma that basically no one will understand without experience in these types of projects.

2&3. Globe Life Park costs 1.1b to build with a massive retractable roof that was probably 175m to 200m alone. It's also larger by 10,000 seats or so. Fair to assume this smaller, roofless stadium would cost around 800m to construct.

7. They did. I have first hand knowledge. Not every single owner, but the major players who own the largest swaths of the area where spoken to right before the announcement.

I understand the desire to know every detail but that's completed unrealistic. How are they supposed to tell us about the cap when that's a separate project? Why should they spend time and resources coming up with traffic plans before they even know if they're doing this thing?

You're never going to get the level of detail to make you happy. I've seen too many public/private partnerships to know this. We're not voting on the design of the stadium. We're not voting on what the village will contain or if Crown Vision will make it back into the stadium. We are voting on if we want to extend the 3/8th sales tax and if we want the stadium in this location. That's step one. If you don't feel like you have enough information to make a yes vote, vote no. Just understand what that could mean and be ready to deal with the consequences.

[DColeKC]

Honestly, I think 95% of the people that have jumped on the anti crossroads location would be against the ev location had it been chosen. They are just jumping on the anti crossroads bandwagon because it fits their agenda of voting no.

This vote is 100% going to depend on the chiefs, so they better come up with something that will be very attractive to voters. I have a feeling people are going to be very underwhelmed by what the chiefs plan on doing though.

Either way, KC people commenting on social media moslty sound like a bunch of rural rubes that are scared of anything urban and scared of change in general. Kind of embarrassing actually. The Royals renderings get mostly positive feedback on any posts that is not moslty kc people.

It's crazy how kc people can so quickly and collectively overrate the shit out of kc area stuff that most people outside of kc just don't get.

Kauffman is not a top 5 or even top ten stadium in MLB. I wouldput it in the high teens. And arrowhead is really showing its age too. The area around the stadiums might be the worst in all of professional sports venues.

I feel good about the vote especially once the official campaign starts. However, if it fails and they don't try again in the fall. I'll forever be disappointed and honestly, ashamed of this city for missing out on a generational opportunity. I'll vomit ten years later as I go by this area and none of the businesses that are there now remain outside of the U-Haul spot, strip club and newly opened indoor storage facility formally known as the Star Printing Press building. East Village will still be a waste land and our Royals will be playing baseball in North Kansas City. Suburban baseball, how vibrant and exciting.

[GRID]

I feel like ev would still be an option if the vote fails. It would probably be a kcmo only vote though, not Jackson County.

[GRID]

I feel like ev would still be an option if the vote fails. It would probably be a kcmo only vote though, not Jackson County.

[Sani]

DColeKC, I want to be clear when asking this that I'm not taking a side or assuming any bad faith on the part of you or anyone else. I don't know how this aspect of development works. I understand that the developers will try to negotiate a purchase price with the property owners and may need to go the eminent domain route to acquire the properties.

What assistance, if any, will be provided to the business or residential tenants in the affected properties? Let's say I rent a space for my flower shop in a building that's going to be demolished. Do I get any sort of assistance in finding or leasing another nearby storefront? Preference in leasing a space in the replacement building if I would like to? Any help with moving? Or is it just, well, best of luck to you, your lease ends in six months (or whenever), please be out of this space by then as the demo crews start the day after.

If you would rather speak in generalities about how these situations play out to avoid discussing any specifics to this project that you aren't in a position to disclose, that's fine. I'm just wondering if there's any difference between an apartment renter being expected to just find another place to live and a business owner expected to find a new store for their business in terms of support to ease that transition.

[KCDowntown]

From Broadway to 71, Truman to the railroad tracks, there are approximately 130 distinct surface parking or vacant lots of various sizes in the Crossroads (the small lot south of the Reiger, the whole block at 19th and Grand, and the 3 block behemoth at 20th & Oak all count as 1 apiece) Since 2016, the Crossroads is filling in about 2 surface lots a year.

• 2016 - 1914 Main

• 2016 - Marriot Residence Inn

• 2018 - Hilton 2 Home

• 2019 - Arterra

• 2019 - Corrigan 2

• 2020 - Reverb

• 2020 - Loew’s

• 2021 - Arte

• 2021 - City Club

• 2024 - Kenton Bros

• 2024 - Wonderland

• 2024 - Via

Prior to 2016, I think all the projects other than the Kauffman Performing Arts Center (2011) were renovations, not new construction.
I'm sure I've missed something, but I think the point will remain that the Crossroads in its current incarnation isn't filling in quickly. I think adding the stadium and its ~2 Million visitors a year could at least change the calculus in the area - because at this rate our grandchildren will be having the same discussion that we've been having for the last 20 years on this forum.

KCDowntown

I’ve got the whole Crossroads area (it’s a little bigger than the bounds delineated above) with about 2050 dwelling units and 3,300 people at 1.61 people a unit which I think is on a census for downtown somewhere.

[GRID]

Yep. My point all along. The crossroads infill development is happening VERY slowly and it seems to have nearly come to a stop with very little in the pipeline. I really think a stadium anchoring a corner of the district will cause more infill not more parking lots.

[dnweava]

I understand the desire to know every detail but that's completed unrealistic. How are they supposed to tell us about the cap when that's a separate project? Why should they spend time and resources coming up with traffic plans before they even know if they're doing this thing?

You're never going to get the level of detail to make you happy. I've seen too many public/private partnerships to know this. We're not voting on the design of the stadium. We're not voting on what the village will contain or if Crown Vision will make it back into the stadium. We are voting on if we want to extend the 3/8th sales tax and if we want the stadium in this location. That's step one. If you don't feel like you have enough information to make a yes vote, vote no. Just understand what that could mean and be ready to deal with the consequences.

I've never seen a stadium go to a public vote without even the cost of the stadium known before or in the Chiefs case, I've literally never seen a city vote for a stadium with literally zero released plans or drawings. It's completely freaking insane. You are acting like these are tiny details like the color of the bathroom tile, no, we are literally talking about literally 100s and 100s of millions of public dollars not being accounted for.