Downtown Baseball Stadium

[KCPowercat]

Just one month ago, the City Manager told Green Dirt Farms, located at the corner of 16th and Oak, that they were “safe, as coming across Oak Street for the stadium would be a non-starter in the City’s negotiation with the Royals.” They have been working on their build out for almost 3 years, and are just about to open.

[DColeKC]

Just one month ago, the City Manager told Green Dirt Farms, located at the corner of 16th and Oak, that they were “safe, as coming across Oak Street for the stadium would be a non-starter in the City’s negotiation with the Royals.” They have been working on their build out for almost 3 years, and are just about to open.

I saw this quote, who is it coming from?

[Cratedigger]

Just one month ago, the City Manager told Green Dirt Farms, located at the corner of 16th and Oak, that they were “safe, as coming across Oak Street for the stadium would be a non-starter in the City’s negotiation with the Royals.” They have been working on their build out for almost 3 years, and are just about to open.

I saw this quote, who is it coming from?

One of the partners in Chartreuse Saloon

[DColeKC]

I saw this quote, who is it coming from?

One of the partners in Chartreuse Saloon

That's what I thought. She has zero credibility. Same person calling for a federal investigation into Cordish. Same person who one minute say's don't insult her intelligence, she knows what's she talking about and than says: “If this baseball crowd is such a lucrative crowd — ‘Man, there’s so much money to be made on them’ — please tell me why the current stadium is not surrounded by successful, thriving businesses,” she said. “Instead, it’s surrounded by a broke-down parking lot and an abandoned hotel. And the reason is because the demographic that is the baseball crowd hangs out in the parking lot and consumes cheap beer and booze and snacks that they brought from home and didn’t spend a dime to purchase anywhere within the neighborhood, then goes and attends the baseball game. There is no money to be made on them outside of the baseball stadium itself.”

“If you are trying to convince me that suddenly they are going to hang up those shoes, switch M.O.s, and suddenly be interested in spending tons of money at local craft breweries, local craft cocktail bars, buying locally-made goods at an elevated price point, at a James Beard Award-winning restaurant, you are out of your mind,” Cockson added. “It’s simply false. It’s a lie.”

I'm not trying to insult her like she's insulting baseball fans, but she clearly comes across as angry and perfectly inline with the portion of society that hates how this country works. She should take up her issues with one person, her landlord. It's his prerogative on what to do with his property. He didn't invest because he was hoping to be the landlord of small time bars, he invested to make money.

[taxi]

^ You would be wise to listen to Ms. Cockson. But, unfortunately, you are not wise.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

^ You would be wise to listen to Ms. Cockson. But, unfortunately, you are not wise.

As annoying as DCole has been as of recent, he isn’t incorrect in that the assessment made by her in the interview is objectively inaccurate, and is full of ignorant and half-informed conclusions.

Pretending location doesn’t at all play a factor, but it’s exclusively a demographic issue of the fan base would somehow not be willing to spend money at local establishments because TSC is surrounded by expanses of asphalt is horribly disingenuous.

Her anger and concerns are absolutely warranted in this situation. But her targeting of the entirety of Royals fans and the talking down of them is not going to win any favors…

[DColeKC]

^ You would be wise to listen to Ms. Cockson. But, unfortunately, you are not wise.

I won't be listening to someone who's an activist first and everything else second. Looking at her comments over the last few months on several topics and it's clear she's not the type of person that's willing to look at things objectively. She even trashes customers who dare say anything negative about their experience at one of her bars. She clearly has no real knowledge of how downtown has come together and she only cares about herself and her very inflated ego.

Let's not talk about who's wise and who's not on this forum. We can disagree on what we think is best for our city respectfully.

[Chris Stritzel]

^ You would be wise to listen to Ms. Cockson. But, unfortunately, you are not wise.

As annoying as DCole has been as of recent, he isn’t incorrect in that the assessment made by her in the interview is objectively inaccurate, and is full of ignorant and half-informed conclusions.

Pretending location doesn’t at all play a factor, but it’s exclusively a demographic issue of the fan base would somehow not be willing to spend money at local establishments because TSC is surrounded by expanses of asphalt is horribly disingenuous.

Her anger and concerns are absolutely warranted in this situation. But her targeting of the entirety of Royals fans and the talking down of them is not going to win any favors…

One could say Ms. Cockson is… cocky

[Highlander]

^ You would be wise to listen to Ms. Cockson. But, unfortunately, you are not wise.

I won't be listening to someone who's an activist first and everything else second. Looking at her comments over the last few months on several topics and it's clear she's not the type of person that's willing to look at things objectively. She even trashes customers who dare say anything negative about their experience at one of her bars. She clearly has no real knowledge of how downtown has come together and she only cares about herself and her very inflated ego.

Let's not talk about who's wise and who's not on this forum. We can disagree on what we think is best for our city respectfully.

The forum is replete with explanations for why development never occurred around Royals Stadium. It's been a favorite topic on here for a couple of decades and never has anyone suggested it's because of the spending habits of baseball fans. The sports complex has never created a critical mass capable of generating its own development solely on its own merit. Kansas was able to create that critical mass with NASCAR, an MSL team, a shopping center and large draws like NFM and Cabella's among other things. Regardless of what anyone thinks about that area, they did what it took to succeed out there. Sticking NASCAR in western Wyandotte County without a plan and support for a significant amount of retail/entertainment would have had the same result as TSC in Jackson County, a hotel or two that would last for a while and then shudder its doors at some point in the future.

Downtown has the critical mass. Concentrating cultural and other infrastructure works well. Spreading it out over broad areas is futile. I like the fact that the stadium is planned for East Crossroads over East Village. It's just that much closer to the viable part of downtown to ensure there will be follow up development and an enjoyable experience for fans. On the other side of the government district, the stadium would be isolated - not as isolated as TSC but enough to curtail follow up development.

[Belvidere]

^ You would be wise to listen to Ms. Cockson. But, unfortunately, you are not wise.

People may not like the way she delivers her message, but you can't argue with her success as a business woman and that she does know her customers and location. It's easy to pick people apart for this or that, on their delivery, but the core message remains. The lack of empathy for people like her is extremely concerning.

I'm starting to talk to small business owners in the West Bottoms with similar worries. Leases may not be renewed. It's not easy to find affordable spaces for small businesses, especially at a certain size. It's hard to find decent landlords. They are the ones who kept the place going when nobody else wanted to invest. It is possible to do multiple things at once if we want to.

[DColeKC]

^ You would be wise to listen to Ms. Cockson. But, unfortunately, you are not wise.

People may not like the way she delivers her message, but you can't argue with her success as a business woman and that she does know her customers and location. It's easy to pick people apart for this or that, on their delivery, but the core message remains. The lack of empathy for people like her is extremely concerning.

I'm starting to talk to small business owners in the West Bottoms with similar worries. Leases may not be renewed. It's not easy to find affordable spaces for small businesses, especially at a certain size. It's hard to find decent landlords. They are the ones who kept the place going when nobody else wanted to invest. It is possible to do multiple things at once if we want to.

How is someone supposed to have empathy for a person who is so arrogant, off-putting and quick to play the victim? She’s trashing the huge portion of the population who will be voting. “Hey baseball fans, you’re cheap, dumb and unsophisticated.”

Edit: I’m not going to talk trash on her businesses because even they tiniest ones take a ton of work. She should be and is very clearly proud of that.

[TheBigChuckbowski]

She should take up her issues with one person, her landlord. It's his prerogative on what to do with his property. He didn't invest because he was hoping to be the landlord of small time bars, he invested to make money.

The idea that tenants don't matter, it's only the landlords that matter, it's only money that matters, is just mind-numbing. Businesses are what people care about. If I'm going to Chartreuse Saloon, do I know or care who owns the building? No. It's irrelevant to living in a city (until they do something shitty like not maintain their building or throw a tenant out). Hell, the Royals are a tenant. Because they don't own the stadium, should we say everything is at the prerogative of Jackson County and they either need to extend their lease at Kauffman or pound sand? Give me a break, man. Chartreuse Saloon's landlord very much bought that building to have small time bars or whatever retail go in there that they could find. They could've invested in the stock market or anywhere else and they chose a small commercial building in the Crossroads. (and, I just looked it up, it's Matt Abbott that owns it. He's not just banking land in the hopes of a big payday somebody, he's actively buying and filling buildings with quality tenants and running businesses of his own). If the price is right, he'll sell. That's fine. But, please stop pretending that the only thing that matters is money. If that's how you want to live, great, but that's not how most business owners live. They invest time, blood, sweat and tears into it. It's way more than money to them. Property value isn't what makes a good city.

And, I say this as a landlord myself.

[TheBigChuckbowski]

How is someone supposed to have empathy for a person who is so arrogant, off-putting

Bro, time to look in the mirror.

[DColeKC]

She should take up her issues with one person, her landlord. It's his prerogative on what to do with his property. He didn't invest because he was hoping to be the landlord of small time bars, he invested to make money.

The idea that tenants don't matter, it's only the landlords that matter, it's only money that matters, is just mind-numbing. Businesses are what people care about. If I'm going to Chartreuse Saloon, do I know or care who owns the building? No. It's irrelevant to living in a city (until they do something shitty like not maintain their building or throw a tenant out). Hell, the Royals are a tenant. Because they don't own the stadium, should we say everything is at the prerogative of Jackson County and they either need to extend their lease at Kauffman or pound sand? Give me a break, man. Chartreuse Saloon's landlord very much bought that building to have small time bars or whatever retail go in there that they could find. They could've invested in the stock market or anywhere else and they chose a small commercial building in the Crossroads. (and, I just looked it up, it's Matt Abbott that owns it. He's not just banking land in the hopes of a big payday somebody, he's actively buying and filling buildings with quality tenants and running businesses of his own). If the price is right, he'll sell. That's fine. But, please stop pretending that the only thing that matters is money. If that's how you want to live, great, but that's not how most business owners live. They invest time, blood, sweat and tears into it. It's way more than money to them. Property value isn't what makes a good city.

And, I say this as a landlord myself.

Property owners invest to make money. That’s it. That’s the bottom line. It’s so simple. If that means leasing them out forever, putting their own business in there or selling it for a profit when an opportunity comes along, it’s about the money.

My point was she can talk her shit on baseball fans and the royals but at the end of the day, it’s her landlord that will make the ultimate decision to sell.

You and others can spend time advocating for the tenants. I’ve said several times I’m not without acknowledgment of the negatives of some of these tenants being displaced. I don’t know how more precise I can be on that. I’m just going to talk straight about it and it’s about the money. I do not feel the tenants being displaced is enough, not even remotely to be a barrier to this stadiums overall positive impact. The stadium will help more people exponentially than the current tenants do. It will do more for downtown as a whole. It will employ thousands more people who need the work compared to the existing businesses. It will do more good for the crossroad community than harm overall.

It’s weird to me we are in a place where if you’re on one side of the fence you’re automatically good or bad, or against the other side. No, I understand the other side I just think the overall project is worth it.

[DColeKC]

How is someone supposed to have empathy for a person who is so arrogant, off-putting

Bro, time to look in the mirror.

Bro, you don’t think I’m aware of what you and a few others think of me? I’m a private citizen speaking my opinion about development on a development form. I’m not trying to save my business and I don’t need everyone’s buy in to do so.

Edit: I just don’t care what you and others think of me anymore. I’ve been chased off this site before years ago and had to come back under a new user name. I’ve been called a liar and uninformed but when it all ends up being true there are no apologies for the false accusations. So frankly, kiss my arrogant ass. (This is only aimed at those who have attacked me and questioned my integrity,)

[Highlander]

^ You would be wise to listen to Ms. Cockson. But, unfortunately, you are not wise.

People may not like the way she delivers her message, but you can't argue with her success as a business woman and that she does know her customers and location. It's easy to pick people apart for this or that, on their delivery, but the core message remains. The lack of empathy for people like her is extremely concerning.

I'm starting to talk to small business owners in the West Bottoms with similar worries. Leases may not be renewed. It's not easy to find affordable spaces for small businesses, especially at a certain size. It's hard to find decent landlords. They are the ones who kept the place going when nobody else wanted to invest. It is possible to do multiple things at once if we want to.

It's not a lack of empathy. But being a successful business-owner doesn't mean someone has insight into the subject matter at hand. That's like concluding Trump is a wise and smart man because he has money (or did have money). Like I have said many times here, the reasons why development failed around TSC are well known. There's no mystery to that and a business owner in the crossroads has no particular new insight. I have lived in Denver and Houston and very much enjoyed going downtown for baseball games and meeting friends for a beer or dinner first - with thousands of others.

I guess I am skeptical about the sky is falling predictions being made about the crossroads by a couple of people here. I walk around the crossroads and there are plenty of vacant storefronts and a lot of undeveloped land and surface parking. In many places in the Crossroads, you walk past more vacant building/land/surface lot than you do land occupied by businesses. The idea there will be a corporate-led replacement of local organic businesses is ludicrous. The P&L District struggles to keep their space rented with the very busy TMobile Center and all the venues and things going on downtown within a couple of block radius.

[Belvidere]

^ You would be wise to listen to Ms. Cockson. But, unfortunately, you are not wise.

People may not like the way she delivers her message, but you can't argue with her success as a business woman and that she does know her customers and location. It's easy to pick people apart for this or that, on their delivery, but the core message remains. The lack of empathy for people like her is extremely concerning.

I'm starting to talk to small business owners in the West Bottoms with similar worries. Leases may not be renewed. It's not easy to find affordable spaces for small businesses, especially at a certain size. It's hard to find decent landlords. They are the ones who kept the place going when nobody else wanted to invest. It is possible to do multiple things at once if we want to.

How is someone supposed to have empathy for a person who is so arrogant, off-putting and quick to play the victim? She’s trashing the huge portion of the population who will be voting. “Hey baseball fans, you’re cheap, dumb and unsophisticated.”

Edit: I’m not going to talk trash on her businesses because even they tiniest ones take a ton of work. She should be and is very clearly proud of that.

I have to work with a lot of different people and I've learned that they say things out of emotion. She also has a point.

If I'm going to a game, before or afterwards, I'm going to want to go somewhere casual, especially if I have kids. I'm not her customer on that day. I might be on a different day. I don't take that personally.

People are casually threatening everything she's worked for, to benefit very wealthy people who have been clumsy at best and dishonest at worse. Maybe cut her some slack and look at what she's saying and not how she's saying it.

[Belvidere]

^ You would be wise to listen to Ms. Cockson. But, unfortunately, you are not wise.

People may not like the way she delivers her message, but you can't argue with her success as a business woman and that she does know her customers and location. It's easy to pick people apart for this or that, on their delivery, but the core message remains. The lack of empathy for people like her is extremely concerning.

I'm starting to talk to small business owners in the West Bottoms with similar worries. Leases may not be renewed. It's not easy to find affordable spaces for small businesses, especially at a certain size. It's hard to find decent landlords. They are the ones who kept the place going when nobody else wanted to invest. It is possible to do multiple things at once if we want to.

It's not a lack of empathy. But being a successful business-owner doesn't mean someone has insight into the subject matter at hand. That's like concluding Trump is a wise and smart man because he has money (or did have money). Like I have said many times here, the reasons why development failed around TSC are well known. There's no mystery to that and a business owner in the crossroads has no particular new insight. I have lived in Denver and Houston and very much enjoyed going downtown for baseball games and meeting friends for a beer or dinner first - with thousands of others.

I guess I am skeptical about the sky is falling predictions being made about the crossroads by a couple of people here. I walk around the crossroads and there are plenty of vacant storefronts and a lot of undeveloped land and surface parking. In many places in the Crossroads, you walk past more vacant building/land/surface lot than you do land occupied by businesses. The idea there will be a corporate-led replacement of local organic businesses is ludicrous. The P&L District struggles to keep their space rented with the very busy TMobile Center and all the venues and things going on downtown within a couple of block radius.

I think what she's saying is that she made a specific decision to be in that place with that business. Other people probably did as well. Change too much about that dynamic, and they may go out of business. That's not alarmist. They know more about this than anyone here.

If you want an example, I loved the old Crossroads and spent time and money at YJ's and the shops nearby. I haven't been back since they left. I understand things change and that I'm not their demographic anymore. It was a magical time. I miss it. At the same time, I'm glad the East Crossroads is no longer a wasteland. I was worried we would lose some of those buildings.

None of us can predict the future and a little humility about that might be a good thing.

[DColeKC]

Someone should give her the humility talk. The reactions on social media to her comments are very negative and baseball fans are calling her out for it. It’s not helping her cause, just the opposite. But hey, she’s been nominated for James beard awards so she knows what’s she’s talking about.

[TheBigChuckbowski]

But being a successful business-owner doesn't mean someone has insight into the subject matter at hand.

Maybe not about the lack of development around TSC but she certainly has more insight into her business, patrons and neighborhood than you or the Royals. I think what she's saying isn't some insight into TSC but about the promises of how having a stadium nearby will lead to more and better business for the surrounding neighborhood. We have a baseball stadium in this town that clearly proves that that doesn't happen automatically. It needs to be the right set of circumstances to create that synergy and businesses that don't appeal to baseball fans will see very little benefit at best and be forced out of business at worst.

The idea there will be a corporate-led replacement of local organic businesses is ludicrous.

That's literally what's happening. Blocks of Grand and Oak are full of local businesses that will be torn down. The effect on the surrounding neighborhood can be debated but the businesses inside the blast zone are certainly victims of a corporate-led replacement. I mean one of them is actually an "organic" business. Green Dirt Farm has been prepping their building to open a new restaurant and just as they're about to bear the fruits of their labor, they find out that actually the Royals' billionaire owner wants to put a stadium there.