Downtown Baseball Stadium

[DColeKC]

That’s not what they’re doing. They’re asking for tax payers to extend a sales tax to help fund the stadium and the stadium only. They can’t sit here and over promise that the cap will happen if you vote yes because there are many other involved parties.

Bottom line is if this vote doesn’t pass and they don’t try again, Jackson County won’t have a baseball team within 5 years.

Not picking on you, but IMO the renderings then should have included the stadium and the stadium only. The stadium as shown appears to literally include the village buildings and bridge path as integral components of its design.

I'm a huge proponent of downtown baseball, but this continues to feel frustratingly hazy and rushed. Not sure why timeline couldn't have been extended to the fall to present and pitch a real plan, whatever it may be.

I get the frustration but they do plan to build the village portion. That’s within their control, the cap is not however they know wealthy people who would likely donate and help raise funding. They needed to show the entire project because they’re asking for millions but are tossing in a billion on their own. It shows they’re not simply asking for a hand out.

[GRID]

The blocks in the way of the ballpark footprint is like 10% developed. The rest of parking lots and the star press. Of the buildings that are there, only a few of them are worth getting worked up over. I mean that 10% is not exactly dense urban development either.

Zoom in at this graphic in the reddit link. There will be few losses, but to act like a "neighborhood" is being torn down is ridiculous.

Also, this area is more part of the P&L District than it is the Crossroads. Over half of the Crossroads is still parking lots and the most active and developed parts are many blocks away. If you truly support the Crossroads district, I would think you would want something like this to go in and help speed up the relatively slow infill that is happening the actual Crossroads district.

Unless your real goal is to stop the Crossroads from seeing development. You know, the crowd that does not want higher rents etc.

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https% ... 9bfw91.jpg

[FlippantCitizen]

I get the frustration but they do plan to build the village portion. That’s within their control, the cap is not however they know wealthy people who would likely donate and help raise funding. They needed to show the entire project because they’re asking for millions but are tossing in a billion on their own. It shows they’re not simply asking for a hand out.

But they very much are asking for a handout from the taxpayers and the courtesy of a lot more information will probably be required if they want it.

[Critical_Mass]

...maybe Oak can be re-routed around the development to the east?

Guys, Oak is already routed to go around the development to the east due to what they call a 'GRID' configuration.
Would it help with visibility if they renamed Truman Rd (south), Locust, 17th St. to 'Oak'?

[DColeKC]

I remain disheartened that so many members of this forum support the wanton destruction of organic urban development for a baseball stadium when there are other, reasonable options. While money may satisfy some folks, for others it may provide little or no consolation. So-called successful real estate development and ROI does not make a city great. A great city has unique character and is created by unique personalities with their own unique dreams. Just look at how the Crossroads came to be what it is today and how a new generation of artists and dreamers are (slowly) spreading that greatness in an easterly direction. I reluctantly agree that there is a place for developments like P&L in a great city, but it is the antithesis of character and originality – qualities that thrive across the highway. We can have both, but we are replacing one with the other. It may seem like it's just a small, insignificant section of of the greater neighborhood, but the corporate sycophants will feed on this site and spread out until there is nothing organic or artistic left.

Just one example, of many: Imagine you bust your ass building a business in a quaint town outside of KC. Your days start early and end late, for years. You create a great artisan product and, against all odds, become successful. Then you make the next ambitious move, into the closest metro, and carefully choose the Crossroads because of its character – its unique makeup of local small businesses, most with an artistic origin, and interesting old buildings. You buy a dilapidated historic building and for over 2 years you risk everything to lovingly renovate it to fulfill your vision of a place that will serve and contribute to this carefully chosen community, all while ensuring the building will see another 100 years. Just when the end is in sight, you are forced to sell to a billionaire and then you watch while a bulldozer scrapes your dreams off the face of the earth. It will be replaced with a mediocre structure that will never last 50 years. How much is that worth? Can you define just compensation? And for a fucking baseball stadium owned by a billionaire and full of millionaire players? If you could build the "surrounding development" out of irony, it would be full of skyscrapers.

I understand the concerns about preserving the unique character and artistic integrity of urban areas like the Crossroads. No doubt it’s true that the organic development of neighborhoods like Crossroads is driven by local businesses and created by people which is invaluable. 

However, considering the proposed baseball stadium and it’s surrounding development, I’m focused on the broader benefits this can bring to the downtown area and the city as a whole.

To start, the construction of a new stadium and associated development is a significant chance for job creation, not just during the construction phase but also in the long-term operation of the stadium and new businesses that will come along with it and because of it. The will provide a substantial boost to the local economy, including hundreds of local small business owners. 


Also while preserving the character of areas like the Crossroads is important, cities also thrive on diversity and change. The inclusion of new, well-planned developments can compliment existing neighborhoods, bringing in new visitors and residents who might not normally visit or move to the area. Once again, this can lead to a substantial boost to the economy and act as a catalyst for future organic growth. 



A new stadium will act as a landmark for the city, attracting tourists and locals. It will host events that can benefit the city culturally and economically. They should ensure that it is sensitive to the existing urban fabric and unique character. 

The sad part, the displacement of businesses for these types of developments are always tough. Those businesses need to be compensated fairy and supported in relocating and rebuilding. As much as they can create a win-win, the better. They owe them that respect. 



Bottom line is while concerns about preserving the unique character are valid, the potential benefits of a new stadium and it’s surrounding development, in terms of job creation, economic growth and enhancing the city’s appeal should be equally considered. 

With thoughtful planning and now community involvement, it’s possible we pull this off and create a new development that respects the past and ensures downtown continues to be a place of diverse, dynamic and existing growth.

[KCPowercat]



With thoughtful planning and now community involvement, it’s possible we pull this off and create a new development that respects the past and ensures downtown continues to be a place of diverse, dynamic and existing growth.

Nothing about this process nor traditional KCMo development leads anybody to believe this is anything much more than a pipe dream or lip service.

[KCPowercat]

Zoom in at this graphic in the reddit link. There will be few losses, but to act like a "neighborhood" is being torn down is ridiculous.

It has been stated on here as soon as this site was mentioned that it's not only about those in the direct blast zone, it's the larger crossroads impact. Trying to isolate something as large as a pro baseball stadium to "hey look the couple blocks aren't much" isn't capturing the whole scope here and you know it.

[FlippantCitizen]

Zoom in at this graphic in the reddit link. There will be few losses, but to act like a "neighborhood" is being torn down is ridiculous.

It has been stated on here as soon as this site was mentioned that it's not only about those in the direct blast zone, it's the larger crossroads impact. Trying to isolate something as large as a pro baseball stadium to "hey look the couple blocks aren't much" isn't capturing the whole scope here and you know it.

The concerns absolutely extend way beyond the proposed site.

[DColeKC]



With thoughtful planning and now community involvement, it’s possible we pull this off and create a new development that respects the past and ensures downtown continues to be a place of diverse, dynamic and existing growth.

Nothing about this process nor traditional KCMo development leads anybody to believe this is anything much more than a pipe dream or lip service.

When's the last time we built a baseball stadium downtown? When's the last time we built a 2 billion dollar project downtown?

This is different. I can't obviously claim it will be handled differently but the situation is unprecedented.

[KCPowercat]



With thoughtful planning and now community involvement, it’s possible we pull this off and create a new development that respects the past and ensures downtown continues to be a place of diverse, dynamic and existing growth.

Nothing about this process nor traditional KCMo development leads anybody to believe this is anything much more than a pipe dream or lip service.

When's the last time we built a baseball stadium downtown? When's the last time we built a 2 billion dollar project downtown?

This is different. I can't obviously claim it will be handled differently but the situation is unprecedented.

I mean I want to believe too but everything the Royals have done so far in this process and how KCMO city hall handles urban development in a way most anybody find even average doesn't give me a lot of hope.

[im2kull]

I remain disheartened that so many members of this forum support the wanton destruction of organic urban development for a baseball stadium when there are other, reasonable options. While money may satisfy some folks, for others it may provide little or no consolation. So-called successful real estate development and ROI does not make a city great. A great city has unique character and is created by unique personalities with their own unique dreams. Just look at how the Crossroads came to be what it is today and how a new generation of artists and dreamers are (slowly) spreading that greatness in an easterly direction. I reluctantly agree that there is a place for developments like P&L in a great city, but it is the antithesis of character and originality – qualities that thrive across the highway. We can have both, but we are replacing one with the other. It may seem like it's just a small, insignificant section of of the greater neighborhood, but the corporate sycophants will feed on this site and spread out until there is nothing organic or artistic left.

Just one example, of many: Imagine you bust your ass building a business in a quaint town outside of KC. Your days start early and end late, for years. You create a great artisan product and, against all odds, become successful. Then you make the next ambitious move, into the closest metro, and carefully choose the Crossroads because of its character – its unique makeup of local small businesses, most with an artistic origin, and interesting old buildings. You buy a dilapidated historic building and for over 2 years you risk everything to lovingly renovate it to fulfill your vision of a place that will serve and contribute to this carefully chosen community, all while ensuring the building will see another 100 years. Just when the end is in sight, you are forced to sell to a billionaire and then you watch while a bulldozer scrapes your dreams off the face of the earth. It will be replaced with a mediocre structure that will never last 50 years. How much is that worth? Can you define just compensation? And for a fucking baseball stadium owned by a billionaire and full of millionaire players? If you could build the "surrounding development" out of irony, it would be full of skyscrapers.

I agree. You do a great job of painting this picture. Thank you.

Why can't we incorporate a policy to the effect of "Any business displaced, that does not willingly sell their property at or above fair market value to the stadium collective, must have 100% of their existing space used for business requirements, reestablished within the new stadium construction in a comparable way and cost to their existing space."

Is there a legislative reason we cannot force displaced businesses to have first dibs at being reincorporated into this project? If not then let's make it happen! Real estate is the world's #1 business. It's not a square.

[DColeKC]

I’m seeing some wildly inaccurate information being spread by a few crossroads community members and tagging Dave. One lady is saying Cordish should be federally investigated for fraud and that Matt Abbot and Tony lied to them two weeks ago saying they didn’t know where the exact footprint was going to be. We all know they didn’t know exact details until the royals revealed the plan.

I’m all for people being opposed and lobbying to vote no but they really need to be careful about spreading misinformation.

Let’s fight, but let’s fight fair.

[taxi]

I understand the concerns about preserving the unique character and artistic integrity of urban areas like the Crossroads...

Wrong. You don't understand. I've read enough of your posts to be certain you will never understand and we will never be on the same page. I don't mind that we have different views, it's the absolute truths you spew that drive me to bang on my keyboard. This mega project will change peoples' lives. The rich will get richer. Some of the poor will get richer. Some of the poor will get screwed. The whole situation is easily avoidable by taking the path of least resistance. If you took the money you were going to spend on the additional highway cap, you could make the improvements to EV and build an elevated gilded automated walkway to P&L with all-you-can-drink free bottles of Michelobe Ultra.

You can claim all you want that that section of CR is blighted or that a baseball stadium is a higher and better use but you'll still be stepping on peoples' dreams and enforcing the fact that money is the only factor and it only favors those that worship it. We all know who worships money. And it's taxpayer money for wealth redistribution, only in the wrong direction. FWIW, I don't give a shit about the church or the Star building or the vacant lots, but other unwitting and unwilling parties will be caught in the crosshairs, and they are the ones who make the crossroads what it is. They are the reason people live there.

If you and your boyfriends were around in the '90s, you would have happily displaced YJ's or Mott-ly's or Midwestern Musical or Dolphin Gallery or any of Leedy's buildings if "it will bring millions of people downtown; they aren't vibrant; they aren't historic; they will be paid what they're worth/they will happily sell out." Yes I paraphrase but that is the gist of it. You underestimate and diminish other people because you think they are like you when in reality, some of them are the opposite.

The rally call from those unwilling to be displaced will be loud and it will resonate with voters, even if there are only a few. These are entrepreneurs, they are smart and relentless, they are fighters and they are loud. Anyone who doesn't want to sell could drag things out for years if they want to and have good representation. It will be the death toll for the new stadium and we will have pissed away an easy opportunity to put this where it so easily fits and belongs, inside the loop.

[DColeKC]

Oh I very clearly understand. Don’t mistake my different perspective on what’s best for the area as a lack of acknowledgement for the collateral damage this will cause. East Village would have displaced affordable housing and these types of projects never have 100% upside. I’m not willing to hold up such huge progress over a very few businesses that in all honestly won’t be here in 5 years anyway. This area features no historical and long standing businesses and the one I can think of wants to sell. There’s hardly any owner operators and it’s the property owners perspective on selling. The tenants can complain all they’d like but the property owners bought these buildings to make a profit and it’s payday.

This particular section of the crossroads is not a thriving cultural center no matter what one saloon owner says. It’s just not and that’s a hard pill for some to swallow. Those same people hate anything corporate and don’t believe billionaires should exist. They can’t and won’t admit that even they’ve profited off of larger corporations investing in the area.

I certainly don’t underestimate and diminish what others think because I assume they’re like me. I know this isn’t popular with a certain group of people and I’m in support of the difference in opinion.

They should be loud but they should be honest. The most vocal people I’ve seen talking right now will only hurt their side. They’re playing a bad hand at the moment based on emotion and not facts. Typical David Vs Goliath argument.

[FlippantCitizen]

The rally call from those unwilling to be displaced will be loud and it will resonate with voters, even if there are only a few. These are entrepreneurs, they are smart and relentless, they are fighters and they are loud. Anyone who doesn't want to sell could drag things out for years if they want to and have good representation. It will be the death toll for the new stadium and we will have pissed away an easy opportunity to put this where it so easily fits and belongs, inside the loop.

This is what I've been thinking about the Crossroads site. Not only do I have a sick feeling about the impacts to the businesses that will be displaced and the many more that might be negatively impacted on the second order of things, but it makes me mad and slightly betrayed that the Royals decided to forgo the layup that would have been the EV and have now potentially entered a bear trap that will jeopardize a fantastic and valuable KC neighborhood on one side of the ledger and an institution like our baseball team on the other. Despite being a big Royals/baseball fan, I can't support the team on this site. It just cuts too deep against my convictions. I've sat out for a couple days trying to digest this proposal (which I knew was coming) and I just can't reconcile it with the KC that I love.

I think there's an opportunity to get loud and make our voices heard. For some, the prospect of downtown baseball in any form will be enough to give tacit approval. I think the more I sit with reality the more I'm willing to let it go if this is what we would have to take it. Let Clay County or even Nashville take it, IDC. This proposal is just not in line with my values. I would hope everyone digs really deep and decides for themselves what is what. Taxi's comments have been very clarifying for me and articulated so well much of what I've been feeling in my gut about this.

The shit thing is that I wanted to be for downtown baseball. I assumed for a long time (as did many) that EV would be the obvious choice, could be uniting, and would be a win-win. This proposal wasn't a surprise, I've had indications this was coming for many months now. It's just too bad because in my gut I'm not for it, and had the plan been different I would've whole heatedly endorsed it.

I'd hate for greed to bring down what could have been good for all parties. I probably need to sign off for a few days and gather more of my thoughts but this proposal is tough for me.

[beautyfromashes]

It's the arrogance that is turning me as well (especially on this board), and I'm a huge downtown supporter and would stand to benefit personally from the new ballpark being there. If this dialogue represents what the ballpark team is all about, the "get out of the way and let the big boys be in charge" or "we're the reason downtown is successful at all. You owe us." and "whatever makes the most money"-mentality it makes it hard for me to push the button to give them multiple millions of dollars.

[DColeKC]

It's the arrogance that is turning me as well (especially on this board), and I'm a huge downtown supporter and would stand to benefit personally from the new ballpark being there. If this dialogue represents what the ballpark team is all about, the "get out of the way and let the big boys be in charge" or "we're the reason downtown is successful at all. You owe us." and "whatever makes the most money"-mentality it makes it hard for me to push the button to give them multiple millions of dollars.

It’s not arrogance, it’s just part of the truth. I don’t think anyone is saying downtown is “only successful” because of the larger investments that have been made but it’s absolutely the rocket fuel that has propelled the resurgence and current status of Kansas City’s downtown. You remove a few key, larger developments and you remove the vast majority of progress made over 20 years.

The royals are committed to trying to make this a win win as much as possible. They’re not saying get out of the way.

Our city leadership has an obligation to do what’s best for all taxpayers. They’ve invested millions and it only makes sense to invest where it makes sense. It doesn’t make sense to let the team go to clay county or to let the royals build something that would negatively impact other tax backed projects.

I’m aware this isn’t easy to digest but tbisnwas never going to be perfect.

Speaking of arrogance. Here’s the leader of the anti-crossroads movement.
“It’s an insult to my intelligence and my experience,” said Cockson. “When you develop hospitality spaces, you have to understand what drives the consumer psychology of your target demographic. You have to connect with them on an emotional level. And for billionaires to mansplain to me how a completely different demographic will be good for me is so out of touch and so insulting and so dismissive of 26 years of hospitality experience.”

“I’ve developed five independently sustainable, successful businesses in an industry that is known for having an 85-percent failure rate,” she said. “I’ve got two James Beard-nominated concepts under my belt. I know what I’m doing and I know what I’m talking about.”

She goes on to claim she opens inclusive businesses while slamming sports fans and implying they’re not welcome in her establishments and prefer Applebees.

[beautyfromashes]

It’s not arrogance, it’s just part of the truth. I don’t think anyone is saying downtown is “only successful” because of the larger investments that have been made but it’s absolutely the rocket fuel that has propelled the resurgence and current status of Kansas City’s downtown. You remove a few key, larger developments and you remove the vast majority of progress made over 20 years.

I'm just saying that you personally are a huge negative to me voting for this proposal because you seem to represent, or at least run with, the people on that development team. And if the way you've presented this plan and talked down to those who have a different opinion represents that group, I'm not with it. You're personally hurting this proposal, in my opinion. Calling out David Johnson, business owners, leaders of the community it's taking over is off-putting. If you want it to proceed, it'd be best to just shut your mouth.

[KCDowntown]

Just wanted to put my thoughts out here:

I support this site over East Village for a variety of reasons...

• Proximity to streetcar. I consider the streetcar our most important asset for the future of downtown as it help centralize downtown for the region as it hopefully continues to expand. Giving people a realistic option of hopping on the streetcar anywhere in the city and having a short walk to the stadium is really important.

• Brings millions of people close to the center of downtown, which will support more retail and restaurant options for residents and visitors

• Close to small scale development and will allow for more organic growth in the Crossroads (may seem like an oxymoron to some on here)

• Quicker access to hotels and convention

• Most Kansas Citians are familiar with the location

• Removes the KCStar building which just deadens the entire north part of the Crossroads.

My tiny soapbox:
I obviously don't love the idea of removing some really great buildings and businesses from the area, but this is a decision for 50-60 years. There are six blocks in this plan - 2 are currently a massive, empty eyesore, 3/4 of one is surface parking, 1/2 of one is a self-storage complex, and about a third of what's remaining is also surface parking. This stadium isn't getting plopped down over the YJ's area or 18th Street, its mostly in a pretty distressed area with real green shoots of activity, but not enough for me to want to move this to the East Village which is effectively dead 365 days a year and many blocks removed from the best parts of our downtown. Keeping the stadium as close as possible to the center of downtown helps drive interactions with conventions, hotels, existing businesses & residents. I'd rather not have to hope the stadium ends up helping downtown like we would if it was in the East Village.

Regarding the plan that was presented earlier this week I was pleasantly surprised because I really didn't love either rendering for the East Village or NKC.

• I really didn't expect that Royals would build a stadium and not include structured parking in it. Eliminating the ability for people to drive up/drive out and not experience part of the city in a huge plus. And I don't think they could put this in the East Village without massive parking structures.

• I don't like skybridges, but in this case I think it makes sense. Dispersing a large crowd and making them wait at two stoplights on Truman to get back into DT would cause large backups if everyone leaves at once

• I really like the exits on the south side, sending people directly into the most active part of the Crossroads

• I liked the transparency of the stadium, way more windows facing outwards then I expected - it's not just some blank circular spaceship looking thing looming over the Crossroads.

• I don't love anything east of Oak in this plan, and feel like that side of Locust will be ignored. I know its a pipe dream, but if they could do the stuff east of Oak and keep some of the best structures it would really help integrate it with the city.

• I don't think dropping Oak is a massive thing, but they'd need to clean up getting over 670 on Locust. Were probably getting to the breaking point with how many streets we can close over 670 with this and the lid without it having consequences - so I might be totally wrong here

81 busy days a year at the Stadium, added to 50-60 busy T-Mobile Center days a year, added to 100 busy days at Union Station, added to 50 busy days at the Kauffman, added to 50 busy nights at the Midland, added to 50 busy days at the Convention Center, added to 60 busy nights at the P&L. We've still got a long way to go, but this gets us that much closer to having a downtown that's active 365 days a year.

Just my two cents.

KCDowntown

[Belvidere]

So, exactly how would a soccer game at the riverfront, a few concerts at different venues, and a baseball game work at the same time in terms of traffic? We have a highway system that was outdated the minute it was finished and now you're going to burden it in this manner?

This is not the right location. I would have fought to put it on the East Side, by the Jazz District. Still has issues, but it would have been a catalyst and supported a different entertainment area.

This stadium will probably completely kill any talk of decommissioning the North Loop, God only knows what it will do to the East Loop, and everyone has been striving to improve air quality or existing neighborhoods will be told, once again, to make a sacrifice for other people's entertainment or convenience.

Some of you are giving no consideration to the small businesses and artists who organically built the Crossroads and held the line when nobody else to gave a damn. What's worse, there's no reason for it. We don't have to do this. All of these resources are being concentrated in one part of downtown and everybody else can't get their damn sidewalks repaired. That's not progress.

We need employers and residents more than we need entertainment options, but those are the nuts and bolts of a city and not the bright and shiny projects. Do you want a downtown that's active? Start building housing of all types and invest in a transit system that's actually viable.

The reason we're all in a hurry is because of the 3/8 cent sales tax and tying it to the Royals and Chiefs. If they have to split that vote, the Chiefs will ask for more money that we probably can't afford. Right? And we're still paying a ton of money every year on the debt service for Power and Light. This is all about money, not about doing the right thing for generations.

This is correct: https://www.startlandnews.com/2024/02/c ... rk-royals/

The entire point of living in urban area is that it's a little weird. A little unpredictable. Definitely walkable. The more diversity you have, the better, and that's why Crossroads has been such a success story. I rarely go to Power and Light because it bores me to tears. It's a comforting environment for visitors. I'm probably going to miss the old West Bottoms. We shall see if they can strike a balance.

You don't have the right people at the table. They're not even allowed into the room. Of course, nobody trusts the Royals now or any other developers involved. It's been incredibly condescending from day one.