Downtown Baseball Stadium

[Anthony_Hugo98]

Well if you guys seriously think there is no chance that this much better location can be developed properly, then I guess you have little choice then to go with the easy route and plop in a stadium in EV.

I just think you are throwing in the towel on having a truly urban ballpark and not just another cookie cutter park that is "downtown", but not interacting with anything.

I still say either location is fine and better than Kauffman or the Royals leaving KC. And if the Royals choose EV, then they too think the crossroads location has too many challenges.

And if that's the case, I will fully embrace it. But I will always think of what could have been. Especially if that star press is still sitting there in 2035 and little infill has happened in the area around it.

People with money drive, they’ll demand parking, and KC Politics haven’t given me much hope that we’ve moved past overbuilt parking. We’re not saying we don’t want the stadium there because there won’t be enough parking, we’re mostly saying that other people, namely decision makers will demand there be more parking, and we’re concerned it will be at the cost of the neighborhood. This is a realistic and genuinely viable concern to hold in discussion of Kansas City…

[Chris Stritzel]

Now would be a good time to start pushing the land value tax through city council. Regardless of where the stadium goes and if it happens. It’ll be a good policy. I rather have garages at the bases of buildings than large surface lots.

[FlippantCitizen]

While there might be some chance a ballpark could be done "properly" in Crossroads I just shudder at the long list of ways it could be and probably would be done improperly and the numerous negative externalizes that could befall the locally oriented Crossroads business environment. EV would be a win no matter what and doesn't keep me up at night with all the ways it could be regrettable 10 or 20 years hence. Do-no-harm as a first principle for myself and other posters here makes a lot of sense given KC's history.

[Chris Stritzel]

This is apparently the ballot language. Sounds like the existing tax would be replaced with this one immediately instead of in 2031.

[WoodDraw]

Well if you guys seriously think there is no chance that this much better location can be developed properly, then I guess you have little choice then to go with the easy route and plop in a stadium in EV.

I just think you are throwing in the towel on having a truly urban ballpark and not just another cookie cutter park that is "downtown", but not interacting with anything.

I still say either location is fine and better than Kauffman or the Royals leaving KC. And if the Royals choose EV, then they too think the crossroads location has too many challenges.

And if that's the case, I will fully embrace it. But I will always think of what could have been. Especially if that star press is still sitting there in 2035 and little infill has happened in the area around it.

People with money drive, they’ll demand parking, and KC Politics haven’t given me much hope that we’ve moved past overbuilt parking. We’re not saying we don’t want the stadium there because there won’t be enough parking, we’re mostly saying that other people, namely decision makers will demand there be more parking, and we’re concerned it will be at the cost of the neighborhood. This is a realistic and genuinely viable concern to hold in discussion of Kansas City…

It's also the opportunity cost. Why not just sit on the land and take in reliable parking money?

I'm not saying the crossroads will end up with parking garages everywhere, I'm saying all of the empty lots will just stay empty parking lots for suburban royals fans.

I bet in KC you could charge more to park in a surface little further away then park in a garage next door.

[DaveKCMO]

No one supporting the EC site has a good answer for what we do with the already cleared EV site funded by taxpayers.

[TheUrbanRoo]

No one supporting the EC site has a good answer for what we do with the already cleared EV site funded by taxpayers.

Sporting KC

[DaveKCMO]

No one supporting the EC site has a good answer for what we do with the already cleared EV site funded by taxpayers.

Sporting KC

Ugh. KCMO/Jackson financially supporting all three pro teams? No, thanks.

[shinatoo]

No one supporting the EC site has a good answer for what we do with the already cleared EV site funded by taxpayers.

New convention center?

[Chris Stritzel]

No one supporting the EC site has a good answer for what we do with the already cleared EV site funded by taxpayers.

I’d like for the city to get aggressive with the current property owners and establish clear guidelines for development over there. Try and force the owners to put the land up for sale and push to get stuff built there. I know it’s easier said than done, but this should’ve happened long ago. This neighborhood doesn’t need to be full of skyscrapers. Just build nice sized buildings that are meant to last and promote activity. The model would work. It’s worked elsewhere in town (even if those buildings are boring in terms of design, that’s where clear guidelines come into play).

I’m not supportive of the Crossroads site because of all the unknowns at this time, but I’m also not against. I’d prefer East Village just because it makes sense, but that’s just my preference and it has no pull over the Royals.

[dnweava]

No one supporting the EC site has a good answer for what we do with the already cleared EV site funded by taxpayers.

This is a bad faith argument. Those blocks have been empty and surface lots for decades, long before it became a proposed stadium site. The few buildings that were demolished badly needed it. And everyone has a good answer... HOUSING.

[DColeKC]

No one supporting the EC site has a good answer for what we do with the already cleared EV site funded by taxpayers.

Not all of it was cleared by taxpayers and it wasn't cleared to make it an attractive property for development. The buildings that were most recently torn down were determined to be too far gone.

I don't think it's been mentioned in here but Van Trust, which we all know owns the bulk of East Village also has the rights to purchase the city owned property at a pre-determined price. The city has a deal with them that they will not explore any other development opportunities with anyone else on these properties. However, that agreement gives them until 2027 to develop the land.

Van Trust has said they plan to develop this area regardless if a stadium lands here.

I've said it before but one negative factor in the eyes of the Royals is the fact that Van Trust doesn't simply want to sell the property, they want to develop it in association with the Royals.

[Sani]

Remind me again, is part of the Crossroads proposal extending the I-670 cap east of Grand to Oak Street? If not, would it make sense to build a garage in that space that the new stadium and T-Mobile Center could share, kind of like the ABC Ramps in Minneapolis over I-394 by Target Field and the Target Center?

[DaveKCMO]

No one supporting the EC site has a good answer for what we do with the already cleared EV site funded by taxpayers.

This is a bad faith argument. Those blocks have been empty and surface lots for decades, long before it became a proposed stadium site. The few buildings that were demolished badly needed it. And everyone has a good answer... HOUSING.

It's a wash/rinse/repeat of South Loop, which festered for decades before P&L. Identified for a large master development so no one else invested.

I'd love for more housing, but that's not what the developers or the city have been chasing. It's all been about some big project that would have housing as ancillary support -- Federal Reserve, JE Dunn HQ, GSA, Royals.

Worth noting that VanTrust wasn't chosen by a competitive process, if I recall. That seems like a problem.

To the point about the cost of clearing EV, it's been millions of public dollars. So what if the developers put some money in. There has been no accounting of that public cost in this conversation. It's all "welp, how about this squirrel over here!"

[DColeKC]

No one supporting the EC site has a good answer for what we do with the already cleared EV site funded by taxpayers.

This is a bad faith argument. Those blocks have been empty and surface lots for decades, long before it became a proposed stadium site. The few buildings that were demolished badly needed it. And everyone has a good answer... HOUSING.

It's a wash/rinse/repeat of South Loop, which festered for decades before P&L. Identified for a large master development so no one else invested.

I'd love for more housing, but that's not what the developers or the city have been chasing. It's all been about some big project that would have housing as ancillary support -- Federal Reserve, JE Dunn HQ, GSA, Royals.

Worth noting that VanTrust wasn't chosen by a competitive process, if I recall. That seems like a problem.

To the point about the cost of clearing EV, it's been millions of public dollars. So what if the developers put some money in. There has been no accounting of that public cost in this conversation. It's all "welp, how about this squirrel over here!"

Isn't blight removal part of the cities responsibility regardless of what the future plans are for certain areas? Do we know what the city has actually spent on this process?

[mourban]

No one supporting the EC site has a good answer for what we do with the already cleared EV site funded by taxpayers.

Couldn’t that be a great neighborhood of townhomes and low rise apartments… the next Beacon Hill or Union Hill? It could be like Boston’s North End

[KCPowercat]

The east crossroads site empty lots proponents point to will fill in way more naturally with an EV stadium location 1500 feet to its north. Seems like a ein win for all and eliminated the need to tear down existing functional businesses for a stadium and it's accessories like parking garages.

[WoodDraw]

I feel like the entire idea behind ev was that the land was banked and all controlled so it would be developed. The royals said this.

My concern with the EC is this. No one owns the land, and some of the biggest developers in KC have an incentive to not develop it.

Everyone pull up Google maps satellite and look at Sprint center and Kaufman center and come back at me saying the land will get used.

It won't happen.

[DColeKC]

The east crossroads site empty lots proponents point to will fill in way more naturally with an EV stadium location 1500 feet to its north. Seems like a ein win for all and eliminated the need to tear down existing functional businesses for a stadium and it's accessories like parking garages.

Most of these buildings we're talking about in East Crossroads will be torn down at some point anyway. If a stadium goes into East Village and it somehow helps increase the rate of development in East Crossroads, we will end up with the same result of torn down buildings, lots purchased by developers and larger, taller, more modern buildings going up in their place. Specifically the block furthest north. This process has already begun. It might take longer, but the odds that most of these older buildings will remain much longer is slim.

A stadium in EV vs EC would not be a win in the eyes of the Royals, City, Urban Planners (hired to consult) or for baseball fans. It would always be second place but second place still beats the socks off TSC.

I'm repeating myself, but if EV was such a great location, why would the city be pushing for East Crossroads? Why would the Royals want to make anything harder for themselves when they're already facing some "keep the K' pushback?

It seems like you're wanting both areas to prosper, which I do as well. I think baseball in EC and more housing in EV is the ideal scenario, but understand you don't agree.

[GRID]

Remind me again, is part of the Crossroads proposal extending the I-670 cap east of Grand to Oak Street? If not, would it make sense to build a garage in that space that the new stadium and T-Mobile Center could share, kind of like the ABC Ramps in Minneapolis over I-394 by Target Field and the Target Center?

Yeah or on one of the freaking two dozen blocks east of the arena that are either surface lots or will be soon. The jail will go way. The MO state building is literally falling down and needs to go away.

Other than the long lines building and the two little buildings on 13th (holiday in or whatever) that entire area is a wasteland.

If you put a stadium in ECR, you could build ALL THE PARKING YOU WILL EVER NEED right there east of the arena and it would serve the stadium, the arena, the p&L district and even take parking needs away from what ever is built in EV. And you could build residential and hotel towers on top of it.

And the area east of the arena would STILL be 3/4 empty. Why would parking be needed anywhere else.

This parking stuff in KC is just beyond comprehendible. I mean KC is fucking nothing but parking, so much parking that 80% of it is not even used and it's still the only freaking thing anybody talks about.

But you probably won't need to. There is so much parking. Why in the world would you need more than maybe one smallish garage near the stadium? Unless the new stadium is going to average 120,000 people a game, this is a non issue.

I swear to god, The first words people in KC learn are "park" or "parking". The first phrase is "where do you park".

It should be. Why in the fuck is there so much parking everywhere and over half of it is empty at any given time?